This is question made in response to the following post made in pinch stick thread regarding siding butting up tight to rake trim.
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SUNTOAD, I’m a framer and I’ve minimal experience in dealing with siding isues. One question: have you ever had and shrinkage or expansion at the joint where your siding and rake trim meet? (have you looked at it a year or 2 later). I know that with a miter cut, the short end tends to open up in some situations. have you ever have that problem with siding? I know that on one small job a few years ago I butted the cedar siding tight upto the corner trim. was back there recently and there is about an 1/8″ gap at the joint. really anoyed me. was glad I’d back calked the joint prior to installation Thanks, nails2
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Edited 6/4/2005 12:05 pm ET by nails2
Edited 6/4/2005 1:09 pm ET by nails2
Replies
Yes, shrinkage is a concern.. when skinny-dipping in cold water as well as with siding..
These concerns one learns to deal with. When skinny-dipping, do it at night.. With wood siding, I insure it's as dry as possible before installing. Then I meticulously caulk each and every butt and all trim/siding intersections. I've used BigStretch mostly for cedar (cedar-tan color)..Sidewinder has done me well also.
On the rakes, the shrinkage is sort of oblique to the end grain, as in a miter joint (remember the wood is doing almost all of it's shrinking perp. to the grain or width-wise rather than length wise). Therefore, a tight fit with dry wood of reasonable lengths at the rake will shrink, in my expereince, not very much. 1/8" would be the max. Use BigStretch and donwurrybottit.
I did not see the thread you refer to , but I wioll comment on this comment he made and you quoted.
WQhat he criticises is the right way to trim a gable. Caulk will eventuyally fail. Al joints in exterior work, whehter roofing or siding or whatever, should always be designed and implemented to drip water down.
Lapps and joints must face downhill. Eliminating a lap and replacing it with caulk is silly unless you live in the desert where it rarely rains.
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we get plenty of rain around here, I hate gaps, I think I would be inclined to lap joints where ever possible. For the rake trim I'd consider rabbeting the trim, does anyone do that?
Sometimes, if the detaailing works out for a frieze board, but in most places, our siding takes about a 5/8" or so dinmension so a 3/4" shim board is minimum under the trim piece.
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excellent - that'd be the way to go..done that on window trim number of years ago.
Piffin, you got me curious..do you also lap the corner boards and window/door trim over the siding? With adequate eaves, the rakes are quite protected. Lapped rake boards, IMHO, look cheap and they invite carpenter bees and ants to come and lodge in all the hidey-holes you've created. ..And good caulk will not fail before the stain. While you're up on the ladder to re-stain, a prudent person will re-caulk as needed.
No, we back them up with tarpaper to drain..
But you miss an important fact, that a verticle joint will drain. When water gets into a horizontal joint, it is in the wall system and causing trouble. I don't know anbout yopur climate, since you don't offer any infgo in your profile, butwith a name like suntoad, I suspect something dry liike sandiego, but one out of four storms here has wind driven rain going horizontally, so that wide overhang you talk about will do little to keep a wall dry.There are no hidy holes in my work. It is caulked tight, but I make the laps drain water away. As for looks, that is a matter of opinion. Mine is as good as yours.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I don't miss the fact that gables are less vertical than corners..I just don't think it's relevant with my approach. But perhaps I misunderstood your technique.. Do you apply a 'sub-rake trim' first, butt the siding to it, caulk it, then apply a rake board on top of this as a lap? If not, you rightly point out that wind-driven rain will strike the siding horizontally; ergo, lapped rake trim at a gable will not prevent it from coming up into the gaps (and being trapped behind the boards). Unless the siding was caulked tight first up underneath the rake trim, I don't see how lapped boards will stop the water any better than my caulked, tightly installed siding under a 16" overhang. But surely you don't mean you caulk the lapped rake trim after the fact..most wood bevel and log siding I've used would leave 1/2"-3/4" gaps--not caulkable in my experience. And it would look like poop if it was. As for my profile, I really have no idea what's in it, as I set up this account many years ago. You'll forgive me for that. No I don't live in San Diego, and no my moniker has nothing to do with my location; it's actually an anagram. As for opinions, well you know what they're like, and yes, yours is as good as mine, Sir. Thank you for the acknowledgement. ;)
Edited 6/6/2005 9:02 am ET by SUNTOAD
I'm not going to argue it out. Too tired.But for clarification, here is how I caulk these.I apply what we might refer to as a sub-fascia. that would be when there is no overhang. When there is a soffit and roof overhang, it would be a sub-frieze board.Anyway, if the fascia is to be 1x8, the sub is 1x6. Then we go ahead and trim out to the roof, because the shingles generally need to go on before the siding is done. same with corner boards and window trims, we trim the house out first, then apply siding.so there is a cavity up behind the 'fascia' or 'frieze' trim piece creating the same sort of pocket you would have with a dadoed board. Then when we are doing siding, the piece is cut and checked for fit, then pulled away and a bead of caulk applied at the back of the joint. The siding piece is set into the caulk. That way, there is a compression gasket formed by the caulk while it is invisible and no tooling is needed.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Well you do it exactly as I suggested. And your method seems totally fine to me (you do caulk behind the sub-rake trim first). In fact, if I were applying siding to a gable w/ no overhang I would no doubt find your method superior. And I doubt one in a hundred builders who lap their rake trim (frieze boards/fascia) do it as you describe. Instead, what I see is sloppy cuts and a lapped trim piece applied to hide their shoddiness...So lapped boards to me imply shoddy work. Yours may be done right, but my eye still sees the gap (and I imagine the giant hole behind it).To each his own. And, Piff, I wasn't being argumetative. I actually like your idea. I just think mine looks more appealing (but perhaps I will bed mine in caulk as well!).
Anagram? I think I got it.
Is it U STOAND ?
as in looking in someones red eyes and asking " You stoned??"
Oh, wait, I get it...Panama Red! Ha!U STONED TOO!