Replies

1. 
   Snort | Dec 28, 2006 09:11pm | #1

   I like these:

   http://www.jamsill.com/pilot.asp

   They are stiffer, and easier to use than some others.

   Get the door on the outside of the building

   Clean off the floor, run a squiggle of PL adhesive, set the pan corners, apply pvc/abs cement, set the center section.

   I use some spring clamps to clamp a straight edge to the back of the pan until it sets up.

   Run a small bead of flexible caulk, like silicone, inside the back of the sill.

   Carfully slide the door in, and proceed hanging...a whole 'nother subject

   Good luck, and welcome to BT

   Oh God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"

   Abe says, "Man, you must be puttin' me on"

   God say, "No." Abe say, "What?"

   God say, "You can do what you want Abe, but

   The next time you see me comin' you better run"

   Well Abe says, "Where do you want this killin' done?"

   God says, "Out on Highway 61."

1. 
   tayray | Dec 28, 2006 10:48pm | #4

   Thank you for the beta and web site. I'll check it out. Happy Holidays.

2. 
   davidmeiland | Dec 28, 2006 09:51pm | #2

   There is a very cool pan available from Endura Products. I'll be using them next time I do exterior door installs over wood subfloor.

1. 
   tayray | Dec 28, 2006 10:42pm | #3

   Thank you, and I'll be sure to find the web site. Happy Holidays.

1. 
   Snort | Dec 28, 2006 10:50pm | #5

   http://www.enduraproducts.com/suresill/search.aspThose look pretty good, and they're made about 45 mins away from here. Oh God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"

   Abe says, "Man, you must be puttin' me on"

   God say, "No." Abe say, "What?"

   God say, "You can do what you want Abe, but

   The next time you see me comin' you better run"

   Well Abe says, "Where do you want this killin' done?"

   God says, "Out on Highway 61."

1. 
   davidmeiland | Dec 29, 2006 03:08am | #6

   I saw them at the JLC show recently and was impressed. Jamsill works OK too.

3. 
   RedfordHenry | Dec 29, 2006 07:23am | #7

   I pan doors (and windows) with strips of I&W.  Cut a strip long enough to span the RO, plus ~24" (12" on each side) to run up the jacks.  The strip should be as wide as the wall is thick, plus another 2-3" to wrap outside onto the sheathing.  You need to slit the membrane at the corners where you wrap it onto the sheathing.  I patch these slits with a small rectangle cut from the I&W.  Press it in good and tight with a few staples to hold it in place if necessary.  You still need to put a generous amount of silicone sealant under the threshold to keep water out. 

1. 
   davidmeiland | Dec 29, 2006 07:42am | #8

   Without a lip at the inside, and/or slope to the outside, all the I&W does is protect the subfloor or framing from small amounts of water. Eventually doors and windows will leak at the joints, and when they do you want a way for the water to get out. A bunch of caulk under a door sill can actually keep water in. French doors sometimes come with holes drilled in the sills for flush bolts, which let water pour in. My opinion is that Vycor (or preferably Flexwrap) over a piece of 1/2" bevel siding on the rough sill is a good install for windows, and that a typical sheet metal pan or the Endura pan is better for doors.

   Bear in mind that I live in an area where we get major wind and rainstorms, so water details are critical. I operate from the assumption that every unit I install will eventually leak.

1. 
   Gene_Davis | Dec 29, 2006 05:10pm | #9

   You are right about the membrane-under and caulk details being no solution.

   Back when I was in the entry and patio door business, we owned a large market share in Florida's hurricane country, and got called into product defect allegations all the time with leaks the reason.

   We always remained constant in pressing the case that it is the builder's responsibility to flash properly, that no fenestration product is inherently leakproof, and that lipped pan flashings are an essential part of any door installation.

   I cannot recall ever receiving a leak complaint when lipped pan flashings were used in an installation.

1. 
   davidmeiland | Dec 29, 2006 05:18pm | #10

   >>I cannot recall ever receiving a leak complaint when lipped pan flashings were used in an installation.

   If the pan retains water and drains it outward there can be a ton of water under the unit and it never gets the sheetrock or framing wet.

   Gene, what type of pans are you using?

1. 
   Gene_Davis | Dec 29, 2006 06:31pm | #11

   Jamsill.  But I know the folks at Endura, and am anxious to see a sample of theirs.

   You might find this interesting.  Before my ThermaTru stint, I was in a biz that did high rise curtainwall work, and some of what we did involved operable windows and doors going into large hotel and condo projects. 

   The higher you get off the ground, the greater the speed of wind driving rain into operable units, and the term for a sill pan type assembly in that biz is "water tank."  It is called a tank because it is essentially a sealed box with a back lip and baffled drains on the outside front bottom corners, that the window or door mounts atop of and can drain into. 

   The higher up in the building you go, the taller the water tanks.  They might be just an inch in height at the third floor, but close to 5 inches up on floor 53.  Since the baffled drains (baffled so the wind pressure cannot totally restrict water release) can only allow so much outflow, more water coming in way up there means a larger tank is required to keep up with the accumulated leakage.

2. 
   davidmeiland | Dec 29, 2006 07:26pm | #12

   Interesting. I assume these are manufactured items? Got any links or photos?

3. 
   Gene_Davis | Dec 29, 2006 08:55pm | #13

   No links, no photos.  Yes, manufactured.

   Large thermally broken aluminum extrusions form the channel, with its height varying as I spoke earlier.  Extruded features on the top edge of the vertical legs mate with the sill of the unit above, which has its sill punched with bottom weeps.

   The ends of the tanks get aluminum plated, with gaskets between the plates and the tank, with fixing done via screws into bosses integrally formed into the tank extrusion.

   If you are in a penthouse unit, it is a large step over your threshold out onto your terrace.  But with midtown Manhattan, or in DC, the capital mall as your view, who cares?