Left my CM at work no other calculator handy.
Could you please give me the diag on these numbers
rise= 5′-10″
run= 6′-1 1/16″
thanks in advance
jeremy
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Replies
No other calculater? YOU ARE SITTING AT A COMPUTER...HAHAHAHAHAHAH
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
The secret to a long life is knowing when its time to go. M. Shocked
whew.......ever get flustered for a min and forget the simple stuff?
thanks SphereFriends help you move.
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after Sphere pointed out the obivious I figured this simple problem out.
Here is the harder problem. I come up with 94 1/2" and the architect comes up with 103 5/16 dont think I am doing my a+b=c wrong (cant do the little squared thing)
these numbers are for my cross vault or ribbed groin vault was gonna figure my radius on things tonight to save time in the morn.
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I keep this site bookmarked. Comes in handy.
http://home.att.net/~srschmitt/script_plane_triangles.html
Any triangle can be solved for its angles and leg lengths, so long as you know three of the six variables.
In your case you know two lengths and the included angle, which happens to be 90 degrees. WAITAMINUTE! With a 90 in your triangle, all you need is something that does square roots! Lemme look at the calculator on my cellphone.
. . . . . Nope. Not on the cellphone. Use the solver at the website.
Go crazy. And bookmark it, too.
You'll need to get adept at reducing your dimensions to decimal inches, and then back again to feet - inch - fractions. That's easy for me, because I memorized all the sixteenths long ago, and just have to split 'em to get to 32nds.
>> Here is the harder problem. I come up with 94 1/2" and the architect comes up with 103 5/16 dont think I am doing my a+b=c wrong (cant do the little squared thing)<<
You're both wrong. It's 101-3/16".
101 3/16"SamT
So much of the success of a company is not determined by degrees but temperature. gb93433 83537.46
found my mistake before you guys posted the answer, but thanks.
I am going with "our numbers to make this thing work out.
gonna borrow kid sdigital cam for pics when I get this framed.
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Thats what I came up with, but I got interupted before I could post back.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
The secret to a long life is knowing when its time to go. M. Shocked
Google Joe Bartoks Groin Vault calculator for this. I can't remember the address, just google it and it will do all your calculations for you.John
here it is, Joe's got the best calculators online !
http://ca.geocities.com/web_sketches/cross_vault/cross_vault_calculator/cross_vault_calculator.htmlEdited 1/14/2007 9:42 pm ET by KirkpatrickFramer
Edited 1/14/2007 9:43 pm ET by KirkpatrickFramer
That calculator is awesome. Wow, the kindness of strangers.
Only thing is we want half rounds, not ellipse form, but thank you.
I am going to take pics of how this gets framed.
Will post if I get going on this tomorrow.Friends help you move.
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If you have two different sides, then one side will be half round and the other will be an ellipse based on the half round. The valleys will also be ellipses based on the half round. A 5' half round and a 6' half round won't have the same rise, see. But if you use the ellipse with a 6' major and 5' minor axis, the look will still resemble a half round to the naked eye, and everything will plane in nice and level. I can share pics if you want, I've posted some here before, but I'm on a different computer now. Look at the groin vault thread on JLC and Tim Uhler made some nice pictures and drawings.John
It is not really a half round, the more I think of it. I built a model last week but used basically the segment of a circle to find an actual radius. We are matching up to a stone radius point so I have to offset a certain amount and be parallel all teh way around. To do this I believe it would be the segment of a circle.
If I have a 101 3/16 chord and a 35" spring height, the radius is 54 1/16"
If the 70" chord the radius is 35"
On the 73 1/16 side I use a radius of 36 9/16
All of these come together in middle with the same spring height.
You are correct that it is not a half round, but if I ellipse this it will not reflect the outside stone arches.
Attached is the pic i got from archFriends help you move.
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The first time I framed one of these, I did it like you plan on. The thing is, the valley ellipse, the 100" + side, IS NOT a radius based on a single centerpoint. It is an ellipse. This is really important in your case since you have what amounts to a 70" wide barrel that is intersected 3 times. The 12" between them will show how it's slightly off. Here are my calcs for this situation. Main Barrel 70" run 35" rise 70" diameter for a 1:1 ratio of diameter to width of opening
Adjacent Barrel with a run of 73 1/16" with a minor axis of 70" the focus points will be 10 7/16 to each side of the center. 101 3/16" run for the valleys, and 35" semi minor axis and 36 9/16 focus points from the center. If you use this method, it is guaranteed that you will be able to take a straight or string from on side of the vault to the other and plane perfectly w/ the valleys. If you use an arch as the valley as opposed to the ellipse then your lower parts of these arches will tend to bend downwards. You'll find yourself up in the air trying to trim parts of the valleys out of the way to keep everything as level as possible. I've done octagonal groins using this method and hallways like yours that were 30' long and came out perfect. Trust me. Your intentions are right but the math you're using is flawed.Anyway, I'm trying to help. The 73" side will look like a half round, even though it is slightly elliptical. Keep in mind if you slice a cylinder in half the shape made is no longer round, this is how those valleys behave. Chop half round on a mitre saw and see how the profile changes when you scribe it on a peice of paper.
John
Edited 1/14/2007 11:31 pm ET by KirkpatrickFramer
thank you for clearing this up.
I see what you are saying.
Now I hope I get a chance to do this tomorrow.
We are doing a ribbed groin, been a long time since I did one of these, and thatis the only other one I have done.
Plese call me when I look lost tomorrow.Friends help you move.
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Post pics ! good luck, you can't go wrong with Joe Bartoks math.What are you using for the ribs ?
Going to cut an "x" out of plywood and use steel studs bent to corect shape for the centers. Did I explain myself right?
like this http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages/?msg=84176.1
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Edited 1/14/2007 11:49 pm by bstcrpntr
All joe's calculators = http://ca.geocities.com/web_sketches/SamT
So much of the success of a company is not determined by degrees but temperature. gb93433 83537.46
That's gotta be the best resource for construction workers online. Thanks for posting that link. Whenever I need to work out a problem, I just google Joe Bartok and whatever else I am looking for, and the individual page will come up.Professor B, excellent work.John
Just found this thread. Thanks for the kind words John.
Folks, here is another page from that website: Extracting Square Roots
Any time you are stuck without a calculator there's always Newton's Method or Binomial Theorem to fall back on. Just grab a box of pencils and a ream of paper and dive in!
Joe Bartok
You da man...I love yer hard work. Thank you.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
The secret to a long life is knowing when its time to go. M. Shocked
Oh one that has be befubbled...the square root of 2? Got a hint? Or root squared is 2 to the -sq? I know I can't type it, but you get the point.
Five non attacking Queens and Cantors paradise....zero measure,
log2/log 3=0.63...I am not alone , thank you.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
The secret to a long life is knowing when its time to go. M. Shocked
Using MS Calculator-Scientific View, You do Roots just like you do Powers.
Fer powers use the x^y key, ie. 3+5 is 3 x^y 5.
Fer Roots, you gotta add the Invert Key, 1/x, ie 3-5 is 3 x^y 1/x 5.SamT
So much of the success of a company is not determined by degrees but temperature. gb93433 83537.46
Got a hint?
Well, there's the secret formula in my avatar
One transcendental number, e (2.71828...), is raised to the exponent imaginary negative pi (3.14159...), another transcendental (and hence irrational) number.
The answer is ... – 1.
Does that help? :)
Joe Bartok
Edited 1/15/2007 3:37 pm ET by JoeBartok
You need to write a book.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
The secret to a long life is knowing when its time to go. M. Shocked
Ever hear of "prisoner's Dilemma" in math class? W. Poundstone. 1992..Doubleday. Press.
Or, W. Wickler , 1968 "Mimicry in plants and animals"? NY. World University Library?
My 15 yo old daughter sends me this stuff, to either (A) figgure out and explain ( show the math DAD)..
Or
(B) Just mess with my head..
I am still struggleing with notation that is typeable in scientific mode, gimme a chalk board, by gumption, and I can squeak just like the best!
Da Vinci argeued that for the sap to be able to flow unimpeded up the tree, the combined cross sectional areas of the two main branches MUST equal that of the trunk. To this day, it holds true in all of our currant abilities to observe. Now what IF I could claim a new understanding? I'd be called a nutcase.
Delta pyramid= delta with pyramid over1+ deltapyramid over 2.
Basically, I just wasted 46 yrs, understanding that which is not understandable. ( but you know me, I'll keep chalking that black board).
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
The secret to a long life is knowing when its time to go. M. Shocked
Thank for all the tips.
Some things have changed but your math for the original help me cypher what we are building.
Started cutting things today. Will cut more tomorrow.
Thank you for all you did to help me. You made me look like a genius by time we got around to doing this cross vault and people just stood in awwww as I whipped the patterns right out.
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101.18363951869887151889981286905
When you're this good, EVERYONE wants a crack at you!
http://www.petedraganic.com/
8' - 5 3/16"
When you're this good, EVERYONE wants a crack at you!
http://www.petedraganic.com/