I will be using some Simpson rafter hangers to tie in my rafters to ridge. I called Simpson to ask about the nailing schedule and they said that I don’t have to nail the rafter using 16ds or what ever code calls for and then put the hanger on and nail it on also. They said I only have to nail what the hanger calls for, 10ds 1 1/2″ in this case. Is this how you guys do it?
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Replies
No hangers are needed. I typically shoot 3 (or 4) 3" x .131 in toenail style.
Edited 9/12/2008 9:40 am by Jim_Allen
Edited 9/12/2008 9:40 am by Jim_Allen
Thanks Jim. I know they are not needed but I want to put them in for "peace of mind".
Thanks Jim. I know they are not needed but I want to put them in for "peace of mind".
You can do what you want , but why would you waste your time doing something that is totally unnecessary and isn't going to make a difference whether you put them in or not.
What piece of mind are you looking for? Do you think that your rafters will pull apart from the ridge when millions of houses don't have them and never pull apart? If that's the case, nail straps on every single rafter and ceiling joist.
I'm just asking you this because you ask a lot of questions which is great, but when you start telling us that your doing things that are not done anywhere unless it was code for some reason, why do it? I think that there was one guy here who said that they have to do this.
IF your in California and have to use all these straps everywhere on a frame, then you have to follow code. But if your not in California, would you still install all these straps for no reason when you don't need too?
You're obviously not following a set of Architectural plans that specify this and your building this as you go and asking on the internet what to do and what size material to use form people here who build entirely different from one state to the next.
If your from NJ, You can't take the advise from a guy in California that will tell you what he does when it is totally different than what you do creating much more work, labor and more material for no reason.
Take the advise from people here who frame where your from to your codes. You said the other day on another thread you have that you will be putting post or purlins(whatever they are called) under your ridge. Why do all that for no reason if you don't need it and it's not code where you'ere from?
Joe Carola
Edited 9/13/2008 4:27 am ET by Framer
Good point Joe but I am just outside tornado alley and I am 3 hours from the coast where Ike just hit. For a few bucks more why not add ties? From what I have read code is bare minimum, so millions of homes are framed to bare minimum standards, correct?A couple of years ago a small tornado hit about 1 mile from my house and ripped the roof off of the police station. I would rather have the ties and not need them than need them and not have them.If it makes the house more safe for my family i'll do it.
Good point Joe but I am just outside tornado alley and I am 3 hours from the coast where Ike just hit. For a few bucks more why not add ties?
I guess it can't hurt, but you're just guessing at this it seems. You're obviously not following a set of Architectural plans stamped/approved by the town. What happens if you're not even following code and you need more than rafters ties/straps?
From what I have read code is bare minimum, so millions of homes are framed to bare minimum standards, correct?
I don't know if that's true or not. I frame from plans drawn by Architects. I follow exactly what's on them, maybe some Architects are drawing to bare minimum and some are overkill. How would I know, I'm not the Architect.
A couple of years ago a small tornado hit about 1 mile from my house and ripped the roof off of the police station. I would rather have the ties and not need them than need them and not have them.
If it makes the house more safe for my family i'll do it.
Again, you're obviously guessing at building your house and what's good enough. You might be building your house and not putting enough ties/straps/hold downs.............etc ......you name it since there's tornadoes. You might not be framing to code and have to add all of these things to your house depending on what zone your in. Those ties might not be good enough.
Joe Carola
Edited 9/15/2008 1:15 pm ET by Framer
"Those ties might not be good enough." True, but i'm sure they are better than 3 8d's toe nailed somewhere. Otherwise why make a hanger if toe nailing or end nailing are good enough for everything.A engineer at Simpson told me, "just one strap or tie is better than none even if you put them on one every forth stud". I did not just pick and grab whatever tie I thought would work, I called Simpson and talked to their engineers and told them my situation. I'm probably talking to the same guy the architect is. Unless that architect has an engineering background I don't think he/she will know about ties anymore than I would. Well maybe a little.
Why don't you just ask the building inspector what's code? Forget Simpson, what the heck do they know about how to frame and code where you're from?.You might not be doing enough. You might find out that you have to use straps/ties/hold-downs everywhere on your house.
Joe Carola
Joe my building inspector does not know about straps and ties since it is not required here.I understand where you are coming from though. I appreciate your opinion and thank you for your help.
Yeah the hanger is engineered to hold the rafter without any extra nails.
Depending on my mood that day I sometimes still put in the 16d's then come back and put on the hanger.
But thats just me.
Thanks D.
I would trust the simpson engineers. Your AHJ does.
We don't do any toenailing of trusses here in Florida because that provides virtually no uplift protection and we need over 1000 pounds per truss end in most cases, hence the simpson clip.
What Simpson hanger are you using? The RR?
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Yes Jon thats what I was looking at. Do you use them?
No. I'm betting that they're not really what you want to use.
If your main goal is to prevent the roof from opening up like a sardine can in a high wind, I would either use a rafter tie, Simpson strap tie, or both.
For the rafter tie, you could just use 2x4 pieces pushed up against the bottom of the ridge, nailed to each rafter. I don't know what you ridge board is, the pitch of the roof, or the rafter dimension, but I would bet you could get 8 12d nails in each rafter. That would require a lot of force to separate those two rafters.
The strap ties would go on before the roof sheathing is installed. You could achieve an uplift value or several times what the RR hanger will give you, and they're easy to install.
If you install both, you will have quite the connection.
Keep in mind that, when you're installing all this extra hardware, a system like you're trying to get is only as strong as the weakest point.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Thanks Jon i'll have to look into that.
4/12 pitch, 2x8 ridge, 2x6 rafters.
Collar ties do the same thing.
I think thats what he meant instead of rafter tie. I think. Rafter ties help with outward thrust of walls and collar for upward thrust, correct?
Correct. If a structuraly ridge is used, it's impossible to put collar ties and a strap is laid on top of the rafters and tie each other to themselves and the beam.
You lost me Jim. Please explain further.Thanks
That is a strap nailed over the top of the ridge from one rafter to the opposite one.
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I believe Jim is mistaken on the ability to use collar ties with structural ridges.
Probably just a slip on his part.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I'll tell ya what I think, since we're all throwing around opinions. As someone else said, straps would be better than the RR connectors. But collar ties would be better yet IMHO.The connection between the wall and the rafters is probably the most critical. If you don't keep the whole roof on, it doesn't matter what happens at the ridge. There's nothing wrong with tying the roof down well even if you don't HAVE to. I did it on the house I built.
Those not governed by God will be ruled by tyrants [William Penn]
Thanks again Boss. I think i'll do the strap and collar ties at the ridge.
You're right, I meant rafter tie.Why do you say you can't use rafter ties with a structural ridge? Wouldn't they just go below the ridge?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
You bring up a good point. You can install 'by feel' as was implied to some degree by the one poster ... you could cover your house in Simpson products ... but it is still only as strong as the weakest point and if you really don't know that you are using all the right connecctors in the right place, then you MAY not be doing much good and wasting a lot of time installing stuff that does ZIP. Hence the comments about using stamped plans ... the designer's job is to understand the structure and where that weak link is and spec the proper fastening/hardware.
In the eastern end of Long Island (Hamptons) we had to start complying with the national hurricane codes a few years back. The common approach around these parts is to nail a 2' length of strapping over the ridge onto both rafters. There has to be a continuous series of metal connections down the entire load path from ridge to foundation. We have some of the nations most expensive real estate out here and this is highly enforced by the local building departments.
Thanks TG, how was Florida?
Miami airport is like a strip club, but unfortunately I spent a majority of my time in Plantation. Next trip I'll spend some time in SoBe.
I'd much rather have the strap over the top, but be careful and don't go too overboard or you'll never be able to nail your sheathing on through the straps. Get the lighter guage straps and sinkers will fly through them.
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Thanks ID.