ripped up the floor at the beach house yesterday and the joist have a dip about 1 1/2 ” in there center. They are in good shape for 120 yo, but I want to level the floor. I started nailing 2×6’s to the joists to get level, one on each side, 8′ long each. I saw a picture in a taunton book showing 3 ft overlap. I hadn’t planned on any overlap, but I can get some 10 footers for the otherside resulting in 2 foot overlap if it’s necessary. So question is, is it necessary? Nailing them with 3 1/4″ SS from gun, have glue on them. Since the joist does not rest on the beam in the center, I was going to cut 2x stock to wedge in after, making connection between new joist and beam. Also thought of using 1/2 to 3/8 hex head bolts to further strengthen old and new joist connection. What do you guys think?
Thanks
Kevin
Replies
Uh, say again. How long are the joists? How wide/thick? What is the configuration?
I'm guessing you have a 16 foot wide room with a beam down the middle, and the existing joists thus span about 8 feet. Correct?
What you're doing with the 2x6s is more akin to shimming than sistering, since a 2x6 adds relatively little to the strength of the joist. As such there's little need for overlap at the center or for making the 2x6s bear on the center beam.
old joist are 2" by 5 1/2" true dimension. Room is 16 wide as you guessed. I'll be laying the T&G subfloor, 3/4" on top of the new joists. Original joists are 16 ft long, I'm putting shim joists 8' long either side. What about the bolts? Idon't want the joists, old to new connection, to pull away over time.
I'm not sure that sistering more joists is gonna really do you much good. Those 16' 2" x 6" joists are undersized unless they're on really close centers. Adding sisters isn't really going to solve the problem which sounds like a lack of mid-span support.
My house has a perimeter foundation with a crawl space. I have 2" x 6" floor joists on 16" centers and the longest span is ~12'. The joists are supported mid-span by 4" x 6" beams which rest on pier blocks spaced at ~4'.
If I were you, I would try to get some mid-span support under your existing joists - and even jack them up if possible. Then, you could add sisters to provide some additional strength and level the floor.
tripled 2x12 midspan on 10x10 concrete piers.
I would not try to raise the old joist. 120 years they are really set. I think that I would have cut a shim piece of 2x stock and put it on the top of the joist.
I think that you could tack a 2x4 x14' level and mark along the joist then cut the 2x and glue/ nail it on top of the joist to give you a level joist for your sub floor. I've done this to level floors where the joist was stong enough and yours are only spaning 8' so it should work fine.
Edited 6/2/2008 3:46 pm ET by BigBill
Edited 6/2/2008 3:49 pm ET by BigBill
I thought of that, but the way I'm doing seems easier, and you have all the remaining new joist, has to be stronger. I could do both, I guess, but seems like it's more work than needed. 900 sq ft house, very simple. Not a mcmansion with loads of weight to carry.
here's a pic of midspan support.
That looks very similar to mine. I have continuous 4" x 6" beams (your's looks like two beams), and I have concrete piers set in concrete with 4" x 4" blocks between the piers and the support beams. I don't have the Simpson ties but that wasn't required in '79 when my house was built.
raise the old joists...
add a sill or shims to the center support thick enough to level the joists ....
or raise the center support and block it to elevation...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
to raise the old joists I would have to cut the tie downs. don't want to do that.
so put the block or shim between the beam and the top column...
go back and look...
you should be able to pull the fasteners out of the straps and raise the beam and then replace the fasteners...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
it's pulling nails vs cutting tie downs...
says so right here...
View Image
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I like that idea better, but is there anything wrong with the new joists nailed to the old, and shimmed under them to transfer load to beam? New joist starts out on sill at the same level as the old joist and rises about 1 1/2" over old when it's over the beam. Plus it has to add strength to the whole thing, right?
nothing wrong with doing it that way....
it will add strenght....
but
costs more...
accuracy is harder to maintain....
more labor intensive....
so raise the beam...
then sister....
that would be a more sensible MO...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I'll give it a look tomorrow, hopefully I can still nail to beam once it's moved up. All nails required by Simpson, not just some of them.
Thanks for all your help.
Kevin
so ya raise the beam....
say 1.5+ inches...
ya take 2' of 2x6 (in real time or modified to desired + thickness) and slid flat ways thru the Simpson, parrell to the beam and centered on the Simpson...
if you need more than 1,5" of elevation change rip it from a 4x6 or 8x8 or what ever ya got in yur stash pile... make that block one piece and not built up if ya can help it...
now mind ya, there's a liberal amount of PL between that 2x6 and the beam and it's also mechanically fastened to that beam....
now yur right on the money..
or a just a fuzz proud.... but not more than a RHCH...
or still low...
low gets shims... I prefer steel plates...
the other two get called good and ya drive on...
the side benifit is that the 2x6 will accept those Simpson nails...
please rememder to dry fit for sizing, fit, elevation, TT&T before breaking out the PL.....
you have a cake and pie job here....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I already have 5 of the 2x6 by 8 footers nailed up. I'll look at the fix you described tomorrow.
Thanks Again.
you should be able to remave them and reuse....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I'd go with the way you have it for three reasons already mentioned. The existing joists are pretty much set in their bowed state, it's not a good idea (codewise) to stuff that much wood between the pier tie and the beam, and the sistered joists will add a lot of rigidity to the floor. However, I would use 16'ers so I don't have the sister joists on opposing sides of the existing. I'm assuming since the 8'ers overlap, they are on opposing sides? I would rather have single, straight lines for the sheets of subfloor.
I would also glue the sister joists in a zig-zag pattern, to mimick a truss. 3" screws or #16 CC spikes, three of them every 16", Block 'em up at the beam and you got yourself a rock solid floor.
Well, until the piers sink a little more. Man, would that suk or wut?!
Anywayzz, that's what I would do. --------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
Well, until the piers sink a little more. Man, would that suk or wut?!
10x10" on 3'x3' footings about 3 ft down, they better not sink! 16 footers, tough to get to the house and tough to handle by myself.
16 footers, tough to get to the house and tough to handle by myself.
Actually, there is no need to overlap the 8'ers. Just cut and but them end-to-end on center over the beam. That way they can be on the same side of the existing post, and single straight lines for your deck joints. --------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
yeah, that sounds better. no one has chimed in about the bolts, see my first post.
I caught the mention of bolts but that's way overkill for sistering joists. Glue and nails provides plenty of holding power, screws if you don't have a nailer. --------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
that PT beam and the Simpsons say that those joist haven't been setting that way for 120years...
they be 120 years old....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Thus the half joking comment about the piers sinking any more, but they're probably done settling by now.--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
so use HW tube steel instead of wood....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
What's HW tube steel?
Whatever it is, if you're refering to the wood stuffed in the pier tie, it's not that it's wood in there but that anything, 1-1/2 is way too much to shim in there. There would hardly be anything left to tie to the beam.
Sistering or firring up is the better way to go. Sistering provides more strength and is a little less work. Firing up saves lumber. --------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
fasten the block to the beam and the strong tie to the block... make it all one integeral piece/conection....
HW = Heavy Wall....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
LOLI haven't heard reference to that smallest unit of measurement of the US Navy - the RCH - since I finished my tour of duty in 1971.BruceT
thought BCH was the smallest...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I wasn't going to comment on that abbreviatiation, but since you did, what do the first 2 letters stand for, if you can say on this board.
I trhink I got it, red head?
Edited 6/2/2008 9:13 pm ET by dockelly
The center beam in my Victorian had cracked and the entire middle of the house (two floors) had dropped 4". With hydraulic jacks under the remaining good portions of the beam, i jacked the beam up and put intermediary supports to level the floor. Use a string line for this, not a level, in the event the top of your foundation is no longer in plane or level.
The two things i'm getting at is that 1) it's not hard to raise a whole floor using the beam you built and you won't have to deal with individually shimming each joist to level, and 2) i'm betting you can easily get the deflection out of a 2x6 spanning 16 feet.
Oh, and 3)...it'll look a darn site prettier under there.
I'm going with the new joists attached to old. It's a 3' crawlspace, so doing it now, while it's all open is alot easier than doing it later, should the old wood fail. Already have 1/2 of the room done. Goes pretty quickly actually.
That'll work, too. <G>