How many of you guys would rather make sawdust or sit at the desk and make more money (maybe). My wife wants me to quit doing the framing, structured wiring, trim, and cabinet building on the houses that I build.
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Good question!
I get too much satisfaction from the production end to give it up, however I would like to make more money doing it.
An additional thought to Leigh's question. For the guys that have switched to driving a desk, do you miss doing the hands on stuff?
Been working as an estimator (I keep a bottle of Pepto in the drawer for the bad days) and yes, I really do miss it. I haven't forgotten the mud, the smashed thumb, the rained out days, the August roofing jobs, the -5 degree winter days, but I've never have found anything that has given me as much satisfaction in my soon to be 49 years. I think Jim Blodgett has it right .......... just enough paperwork to be able to build. I hope to be able to go back to it ........ we shall see.
I decided early on, when I got a degree in architecture, that sitting behind a drawing table most of the time was not going to fully satisfy my passion for building and using my hands. I ended up in the art glass business for 25 years and got to design, fabricate, and install. Also had to devote a little time to paperwork and the usual business bullsh*t. Even though the carpentry gig may not be as 'artistic', it still satisfies my passion to create. I still have to spend a little time w/paperwork and at the drawing table, but I could never stand to be there full time.
Ken Hill
I can empathize ............. went back to school .........graduated with a degree in technical graphics and design. Worked for some engineering companies as a temp ......... the satisfaction wasn't there and eight hours a day with AutoCAD is hard on the old eyeballs.
Edited 6/11/2002 10:52:43 PM ET by jc
Good question. I made that transition myself almost 6 years ago, although I still don't wear a tie except for trade shows and funerals. I think this is the only job I could have given up carpentry for. Having said that, I work nights and weekends on my house, when I'm not chasing the kids around to games or Scouts. And when the house is done, I'll probably add on to it.
There are pros and cons. My back hurts more now than when I worked for a living. I make about the same money, but the excavator isn't calling me at 5 AM after I got off the phone with the customer at 10 PM. I get most weekends off now, and someone else pays for most of my insurance. In the balance, the most important advantage for a compulsive worker like me is that I get more family time. Andy Engel, Forum moderator
One again, I'll say it...I really do envy Andy, Kevin and the rest of the guys at FHB. I'd give a lung to work there as opposed to hanging, taping and sanding drywall in the Florida summer (all of these things I'm currently doing within the past few days...URGH!)
Too bad I can't move to CT... :(
Keep up the great work guys!
Mike
Mike,
How long you been taping? You might not be able to spare a lung! :o)
T
Do not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
T,
Been taping and sanding for quite some time now. The lung I would spare would be filled with gypsum dust and silica. It would be a relatively useless lung but a lung none the less. ;)
Mike
OK, so it looks like the concensus (sp?) is to make dust in lieu of indoor office work. So I shouldn't have any more trouble finding one of those indoor jobs since all the rest of you want to stay in the field.
Great, now where do you guys live so I can come and do the estimating, ordering, telephone calls, permitting, etc? Its not here in Tampa as no one wants to give up their butt-sitting office positions. I tried pushing a few guys out of their chairs but they wouldn't budge.
Mike
I always like staying in the office , or truck the bad days , and hell bent to work the good ones. I could give it up for money though !!!!! lol
Andy, Speaking of trade shows, I'll see you in Vegas.
When faced with 2 unacceptable options, plans 'A' and 'B', choose plan 'C'. Stay in bed and saw logs. At least until things become clearer. You sound like you could use the sleep.
Not to mention the firewood!
At NAHB? Good, stop by the booth. In fact, we'd enjoy meeting any of you at shows.
Andy Engel, The Accidental Forum moderator
I'd rather drive a desk than anything I've ever done on a roof. And every now and then I'll drive past a site when it's snowing and cold enough to be miserable but not cold enough to freeze the mud and see guys walking around with a bowling ball's worth of gumbo on each boot and pat myself on the back for my career choice. But then there's beautiful clear spring days when I drive past a site and see guys with a house half framed where there wasn't anything but a deck the day before, and they're clearly having FUN doing it, and think it ought to be a crime to work inside on a day like this.
I do just enough desk work to allow me to build stuff. There's no ammount of money I could make doing something else that could buy me the satisfaction I get from meeting a new challenge or enriching my carpentry skills.
Other folks actually LIKE management. Good on 'em. I'll stick to t-shirts, jeans, a well ballanced hammer, a true framing square, and a sharp skilsaw blade. I even enjoy sweeping the jobsite clean at the end of the day and pausing to reflect on that day's progress and the next day's challenges.
Life is good as a carpenter.
What Jim said!!!!
If I had to give up doing the fun stuff why do it at all.
If you are going to sit behind a desk all day then you should have gone to law school so you could charge 200$ an hour to make phone calls and push a pencil.
When I gradgitated collitch I looked down the paths that were ahead of me. If I went into the engineering end of construction I would be behind a desk, under alot of stress and really unprepared to try and tell experienced people how they should do thier job. On the other hand I could take a job as a carp. and learn the trade from the bottom up. College had given me the background and the self-confidence to know that I had what it takes, but I just needed some (alot) experience.
sure some of the people I graduated with took jobs that pay what I am making today, but I will always be able to find work and make a living.
Maybe this is a tangent from your original question. oh well.
Mr TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
Ever since I closed my business, I have been looking for something that would allow me to do less physical work and make the same amount or more money than I have been in the past. I think if you look at the very successful businesses, they have labor to do the manual part of the work while the owner who makes the most money is the manager or overseer of the projects.
I LOVE nothing more than doing the work but I have realized you cannot do everything on the job in order to make money because while you are tied up doing everything, you could have had someone else do it while you were out scouting up or doing the next job.
I would also have more appreciation of the physical part of the work if I didn't live in Florida where its been 96 degrees with 87% humidity for the past month and a half. Last week, I went thru three shirts before lunch as each looked like I just got out of the shower. No work is fun when you sweat like a pig doing it...
Mike
I've done both...worked in Mgt for a Fortune 50 for a number of years...managed maintenance and engineering depts and with each promotion I moved further from operations, closer to the desk and became less and less enchanted with my "career" as time went on.
After a plant closure, elected to go back to denims and hickory shirts rather than relocate to a desk in another state.
It's miserable at times and terrific at times, but always gratifying in the end. I've chosen to stay small. I personally thrive on variety and in 13 years of this, I've done everything from custom sawing to building a custom canoe to building a couple of nice, big quality homes. This week, I was climbing, rigging and falling some danger trees (one tree job ended up being 5 tree jobs). I don't make near the money I did, but as long as I can physically hold up, I wouldn't trade it for anything else.
I am, however, grateful and respectful of those who elect to drive desks and do design work and do my taxes for me and so forth. We all have different bents; I just prefer to be outdoors, have caloused hands, a farmer tan and appreciate that "casual Friday" is every day.
bury me "in-the -dust" the work at least for me is a form of meditation alot of the times. i'm approaching 50 and i m starting to break down. but distilled down it's all about the work......
staywell the bear
Edited 6/8/2002 2:04:06 PM ET by the bear
I asked the question because i've been putting some desk work off for a week. I find that i'll stoop so far as to clean up the jobsites before doing the office stuff. Keep having fun. Leigh
I like both, or rather, having a setup that lets me do both so I don't get sick of neither. An' after doin' one for too long, I'm jus' itchin' to get to the other.
My solution was to earn a livin' wearing a shirt and tie and then on the weekends and evenings build my own home the way I want it, not the way some kid with a loan wants it built. I get the joy of construction with the income of a suit.
I too am hitting the big 50. After 30 years in construction (boatbuilding, preservation and new construction), I have finally achieved a "respectable" persona to the client base out there. Why in the world would I give up on the sawdust now? I am far more efficient than I was even ten years ago, although when overworked, I do seem to hurt more body parts than I ever knew I had. The young guys can't keep up and I don't know why. I would love to have more planning time in the office, but there is just too much on-site work for me to tend to. I am trying to break in my son (age 26), and a few preservation schooled carpenters, but have yet to find someone who can really let me get away from the jobsite to shift gears to "office guy". That's the trade-off - you work in the office because you have to; and in the field because that's where you shine.
Heavy question - Something I think about a lot.
I think tradesmen tend to look down their noses at "button pushers" like me. They think I make a whole lot more money than they do and have an easy job. But - there's always 2 sides to every story.
I used to say there was no way I could ever stand a desk job. Grew up on a farm, and always worked with my habds. But the design work I do is challenging. And it needs to be done right. So I ended up being kinda like Frenchy - Earn a living behind a desk (No tie, though) but do projects on the side.
I think the fact that I can do both carpentry and design work makes me better at both. Would you rather have your trusses designed by a college kid, or someone who's both framed houses and started out in the truss plant building trusses and worked their way up? The office guys need to know what they're doing, and I do. (Pardon me blowing my own horn)
On the other hand, I get tired of moving from one crisis to the next. Every day there's spomeone on my #### about getting this project or that one done, or getting a quote out. Seems like the designers are always under pressure. No way can we ever get enough done to satisfy anyone. They want us to work faster and faster with half-assed blueprints, and then they wonder why we make mistakes. The framers seem to think we're just a bunch of idiots sitting behind a desk who don't have a clue. But I actually make less than a union carpenter, and I have 17 years of experience. The truss business just doesn't pay well.
So sometimes I think about going out on my own as a contractor. I really like the work - Don't even mind the temperature extremes and hard physical labor. But I hate the bookkeeping end of contracting. Those of you who can keep up on that kind of stuff have my respect.
Please pardon the rambling and ranting - This just hit a button with me.
Two words: QUICK BOOKS! Saved my life. Gives me time to write this stuff. Maybe , I should go back to doing the books by hand, and leave this to the "pros"
Brudoggie
The day I decide what to do for a living based on what my wife wants me to do...gag!
I make decisions based on my talents, skills and what satisfies me, like Jim Blodget. With the body wearing out, I spend lots more time designing at the boards and the computer CAD but still love working with my hands. If I ever did something to satisfy her instead of myself, I would lose all respect for my self and be less than a man. How could she respect me then? I would be nothing more than a boy toy for her.
What do YOU want to do?
Frenchy hit on having it both ways, which is #1 DIY motivation.
Financial aspects: Net worth after 40 years is probably more to DIY/hands on than that contributed by desk job, but then desk job was the seed money.
Wife tells me on may a Monday mornings, " You've got to go back to work to "rest up""
You've got to go back to work to "rest up"
Can't tell you how many times I've heard/said that myself.......
When sex is good, it's beautiful.
When it's bad......................It's still pretty good
Make dust, for sure. Heck, I'm suposed to be invoicing jobs right now! I get much more satisfaction out of the product.
Brudoggie