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Sizing a Pocket Door Header

DesignBuild | Posted in Construction Techniques on January 3, 2008 12:06pm

Can anyone advise on how to size the header for this pocket door situation. I don’t think I can get away with dimensional lumber but I’m sure there is an engineered lumber solution,

Some details in addition to the drawing, house is one story ranch so the proposed header above the pocket door would be supporting 10 feet of an existing ceiling of one room only. The wall that the pocket door is planned to go into is an existing interior load bearing partition and as such there is already a continuous load path to the foundation below. I have been looking at the beam span tables in the IRC and even in the GP LVL literature but nothing seems to address interior load bearing walls that are supporting a ceiling only — they all appear to be either one floor above, exterior bearing walls carrying roof load, etc…

I will have an architect sign off on it, but my arrangement with my architect is I do the homework, he double checks it and signs off on it. I also find that he likes to over-engineer things at times to cover his a** — unfortunately very often it adds considerable cost to the job so I want to know what is the safest, most cost-effective solution before I go to him.

Any thoughts?
Sean

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Replies

  1. Sasquatch | Jan 03, 2008 01:39am | #1

    I would size the header as if the pocket door were not there.  Just make it big enough to handle the span - using tables, experience, or engineering advice.

    Then, if you do not have enough room left for the door and the associated hardware, you must consider going to a minimally approved header height.  I always prefer a way to exceed the minimum.

    Anyway, if there is any chance that the header could deform after time, regardless of the fact that it meets code, you can use a stronger material or build the door support in such a way as to counter the sagging effect.

    The method would be situationally-dependent.  My goal is not to offer you a solution.  I am just trying to point you in a direction that has worked for me.  I like pocket doors, although they can be tricky, and are often installed poorly.  I am guessing this is one reason you don't see more of them.

    I think a great way to eliminate noise transmission as a pocket door problem would be to put a temporary panel with a plastic liner on the inside of the nailing supports during installation and then have some way of installing foam underneath the drywall.  This could be done in several ways, which I will not get into here.

     

  2. user-201496 | Jan 03, 2008 01:47am | #2

    Most pocket door kits require 82 1/2" jacks and with the bottom plate that makes for an 84" rough opening.

  3. User avater
    JeffBuck | Jan 03, 2008 03:30am | #3

    seat of the pants engineering for a 10ft opening ...

    as with any opening ...

    "double the width, then up-size it" ....

     

    or ... 10ft ... means 2x10.

    double it ... so 2 2x10's ...

    and "up size" it ... and we end with 2 x 12's.

     

     

    6ft opening ... ends up with 8 2x8's

     

    has only failed when there's some goodfy roof load up there.

    and like U ... I do run it past an engineer and/or building inspector on the plans.

    usually both. I guess ... the engineer looks everything over ...

    and the BI OK's the stamped plans.

     

    let us know if we passed or failed.

    Jeff

        Buck Construction

     Artistry In Carpentry

         Pittsburgh Pa

  4. Framer | Jan 03, 2008 03:46am | #4

    I'd measure my RO,  most pocket doors I get need an 80" height. 

    Matt,

    For a 6'8" door, the rough opening in height is 84". How do you get a 6'8" pocket door in 80"?

    Joe Carola
    1. MattSwanger | Jan 03, 2008 08:35am | #7

      It may be bifolds that I am thinking of with an 80-1/2" RO,  I maybe just wrong again.  Probably is the more I think about it.   We use 2x12's on most every header here interior and exterior. 

      I get alot of numbers mixed up in my head.  Woods favorite carpenter

       

  5. brucet9 | Jan 03, 2008 07:23am | #5

    "I'd measure my RO, most pocket doors I get need an 80" height."

    The pocket frames available in my area specify RO height 4" greater than door height, to allow for track channel. That would be 84" for a normal 6-8 door.

    BruceT
  6. Piffin | Jan 03, 2008 07:44am | #6

    Ceiling loads figure at 15#/sf

    That gives you an even ly spread 1125#

    A pair of 2x8 wil do it but like Jef, I would use the doubled 2x10 or 2x12. A single LVL 1-3/4" x 11-1/4" would make me happy too.

    Technically you just size for the load it carries like any other opening, but for a doubled pocket door, you want to calc in less than an eighth of deflection.

     

     

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  7. dovetail97128 | Jan 03, 2008 08:42am | #8

    If I am seeing this right in your plan I would head for the attic.

    Looks like you have joists meeting perpendicular to each other right at the wall. If that is true then one set is bearing on the wall , or is hung off the first joists inside that wall.

    Might be able to easily beef that juncture up and hanger the joists into place, use a dbl. flat 2x4 header for the door.

    If I was adding a header into the wall I use Jeff Bucks formula .

    Opening width in ft. = depth of header in inches + 1 increment.

    They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
    1. DesignBuild | Jan 29, 2008 08:57pm | #9

      hey all -- just wanted to apologize for posting a question then not replying for a while, was pulled onto the road for a while and haven't had a second to get online. Thanks for all your replies -- I reviewed it with an architect and we decided to play it safe with a 3-1/2" by 9-1/2 LVL that I was able to install this past weekend - it went very smoothly - see the attached pic. Yes, that is the old wall-board with a plaster skim coat that is supporting itself, was still standing when I left this morning and hopefully will be until I can get the pocket door kit installed this weekend.

      1. Orbs | Jan 29, 2008 09:26pm | #10

        I think an inportant point you missed is in the footings. the original footing was designed to support the bearing wall along its length. you have now transfered 11 feet of that load to two points and a larger footing needs to be under those points. If you were to get that permitted here in So. California those footing would be mandatory, or structual specs to prove the existing footing are suffient.

        orbs

        1. frammer52 | Jan 31, 2008 06:19pm | #11

          it appears from the pict that this is probably over the beam, if so only blockingunder the new point loads would be required.

          1. DesignBuild | Feb 02, 2008 03:40am | #12

            there is actually a steel i-beam underneath that wall (parallel)-- I did add blocking underneath to continue the load path. I could always have my architect take another look at it though if the inspector questions it.

          2. Orbs | Feb 03, 2008 01:04am | #13

            guess I didn't look at pic close enough to see it was over crawl space, thought it was over slab, which is just about all I see around here.

            orbs

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