Any skid steer owners here?
I just bought small acreage and I have a lot of clearing to do; mostly small trees and lot’s of brush. I also want to dig out a small overgrown pond and dig some trench’s. In the future I’d like to plant a nut orchard.
I’m inclined to buy new; factory interest rates are zero for 48 mos. and cheap money for longer terms. I’ve looked at Gehl “E” series and New Holland.
What are your favorite attachments? How well do the bush hogs work? Should I consider a tree cutter? Are there any trenchers that have adjustable widths?
Thanks….and Hi to all my old friends here…it’s been a long road…. 🙂
DITCH
Replies
Both of those are minor players and as a result their used value is pretty poor.
Right now the good buys are on Bobcat, #1, Case, Caterpillar, and John Deere..
They are holding used values pretty well.
weaknesses.
Bobcat has the smallest engine of them and as a result it bogs down pretty badly when worked hard.. stalls relatively easily.. highest market share so it's well known.
Case is quickly falling out of favor with it's economic woes. Long term Case looks to be toast.
Caterpillar has a decent one if a bit pricy to maintain.. In addition it's steering is tricky to master. It's had maintinace issues but that seems to be Caterpillars marketing strategy. Price it modestly and make up for that lack of profit with higher maintinace costs..
The most underated one is John Deere. It has a really powerful engine, the best lifting capacity and greatest lifting height. What's more it's hydraulic system doesn't heat up the fluid as much as the others saving seals and bearings..
It's weakness is the first ones sold weren't fully developed and as a result it got a reputation early on for high maintinance..
Last I heard no such problem existed..
New Holland was the basis for John Deere's and in fact the early John Deeres are badged New Hollands.. John Deere terminated the agreement due to unreliablity and high parts prices.. For example if one of the guages cause problems you're forced to buy a $1200 panel to repair it.. It has a similar lifting design to John Deere. so it too has great lifting capacity but it's engine isn't as powerful or as reliable..
I sold Gehl as well and it's a decent piece but as you well know Gehl is not doing too well the market is over supplied and some are likely to fail.. Gehl is one of those marginal performers..
Regarding attachments they all fit any machine.. so if you need an attachment once or twice rent don't buy!
Especially trenchers!
High maintinance!
Finally prices.. no easy way to do this.. there is massive profit between list price and actaul selling price.. Go dealer to dealer and show them the quotes.. they will all beat it and sweeten the pie.. when they are at cost they still aren't done.. there is factory sales allowances to be had. plus attachments have their own markup..
Bottom line? Pick which one you want and shop untill you get it at the price others will sell for..
I like John Deere anything. Great service & parts availability too.
Been running JD yellow since 1960. Long before I got a car!
Wow, your very knowledgeable. You should get a job selling equipment or something.Legal Disclaimer: The preceeding comments are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as professional advice. The reader of these comments agrees to hold harmless the poster, EJCinc, from any and all claims that EJCinc offered professional advice, ideas, or comments to the reader that may or may not have resulted in the damage, injury, or death to the readers property or person.
I had one (sold equipment for 17 years untill the housing problem hit and I was let go (along with all but one other salesmen, childhood friend of the owner. ) and I'm looking for another.. 13 months without a decent interview..
Hey man,Thank you for your excellent posts. I didn't know there was that much room in negotiating price. It sounds like JD and CAT are the top machines.Do you think market conditions will force factory's to increase finance incentives? Are we entering the slowest part of the sales season?DITCH
What forces interest free stuff etc. is market share. IF Cat etc. has enough market share to meet their goals they back off that sort of thing and even allow dealers to make additional profit. If somebody is cutting into their market share then good deals happen.
O.K. Let's open it up a little more. What's the one best all-around builder's machine for rural home sites?
1. dig out stumps
2. prepare driveway
3. excavate for footings/foundation
4. move building materials on site
5. backfill foundation and grade yards
6. install sceptic system
7. soil conditions may include some shale.
I have a pretty good idea about what type and model I'd buy but I'd like hear what everyone else would put on top of your list. After all, my experience is limited by regional preferences and the type of work I've done.
Let's also put some limits on the budget, say $30,000 for the best used machine, one which will hold most of it's value for five-six years of occasional use. Let's say that it will be staying on site for the duration of the job.
Edited 10/26/2008 4:07 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
best all-around builder's machine for rural home sites?
Probaby a mid-size NH or Terex dedicated backhoe.
Then rent or borrow for when a box blade or auger are needed.
(But that reflects a bias of my personal better experiences with backhoes in general.)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Probaby a mid-size NH or Terex dedicated backhoe.
I've never seen either of those machines. Any features or performance that make them stand out?
BTW, I'm in complete agreement on the type of machine. I was thinking Case 580 as that's the most common model in my area.
I'd like to own a small dozer too but it makes more sense to rent one for a day's work when everything else is done.
Edited 10/27/2008 7:56 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
I was thinking Case 580 as that's the most common model in my area.
Well, that was the size I first thought of, but as Frenchy et al have pointed out, Case has taken a sizable hit of late in the reliability department.
New Holland seems to be the choice among the mizery plumbers I know; Terex seems to get the nod with the rest of the utility contractors I know.
Unlike JCB, there's no griping about being under-powered.
Mind you, I may be seeing a bias as Terex has the hydralically-lengthening boom that everyone prised so much in the Cases when that feature first came out.
And, in all fairness, all the concrete people I know are buying "yellow deere"--but I have a reflex about like ron's when the green machines are brought up.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Case has taken a sizable hit of late in the reliability department.
Sorry to hear bout that but it's no real concern for someone with my budget. I'll be looking for an older machine with low hours.
New Holland seems to be the choice among the mizery plumbers I know.
NH is a possible alternate. The factory isn't too far from me, in PA Dutch country. In fact, one of my favorite country restaurants, Yoder's, is just a stone's throw from their back doors.
I'd enjoy taking a trip over there for a day, to tour the factory and get a first hand impression about their machines.
And, in all fairness, all the concrete people I know are buying "yellow deere"
And....why do you think they are doing that?? Do they like the color that much?
Do they like the color that much?
Dunno, just an observed fact. Same way the electrical guys are buying terex. And only the out-of-town rental joint carries JCB.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I would go with a medium sized diesel tractor, preferably 4-wheel drive, with a front bucket, and a pto & 3-point hitch on the back. It will be more versatile than a skid steer.
It will be lots easier to do grading with the tractor with a blade or box on the back. There are augers available for doing fencing. If you are in a rural area, you can rent or borrow all kinds of three point accessories, from concrete mixers, to pole pounders. And, there are tilt bed trailers that have hydraulic lifts run off the pto.
I would go with a medium sized diesel tractor, preferably 4-wheel drive, with a front bucket, and a pto & 3-point hitch on the back. It will be more versatile than a skid steer.
I like this concept for living on a large rural property but when building is the main focus a powerful dedicated backhoe is really necessary.
There are so many jobs, digging out stumps for example, which require serious overall strength that anything less shows it's limitations real fast.
$30K would probably buy you a used Case 580 in decent shape, maybe even a used Deere 310.Both great machines.
$30K would probably buy you a used Case 580 in decent shape,
That's the most common machine in my area, two big dealers within an hour from me. It's what I had in mind when I asked for advice, a 580 4WD extendahoe.
I've been very pleased with their performance and reliability, as have all the contractors I've met who own and work with them. As long as the digging is good, it's a fine machine.
As far as I'm concerned, Cat is in first place with nothing tied for second or third, followed by Deere and Case. You'd never believe what we make Cat skidsteers do, day in, day out. Pound for pound they have to be the most productive machine made.
If you can find a leftover Cat "B" series you can get a great machine cheap. The "C" series is having computer problems. As soon as those are fixed, it will be a truly amazing machine.
Case was the gold standard for years. Their quality and their support has suffered badly.
Gehl is OK if you get it cheap enough. Likewise for Bobcat.
The question is how much too much did you pay for your Cats?
Unless you got one below dealer cost you paid way too much.. It's called factory sales allowance. and it's used so dealers sell them no matter what the competition is doing.. Market share in skid steers is king.. and Cat is counting on it's skid steers to move customers into bigger more profitable equipment..It's market share is climbing but it still lags Bobcat..
Dealer cost between apples to apples Cat and everybody else is so close to identical as to be non existant.. Bring in every bodies quote and walk out when they refuse.. Salesmen want to make 10% on a skid steer and they will if they sense they have a deal. Cat salesmen are extremely well trained and very experianced.. .. 2% with factory sales allowance is far more common..
At least the Cat skid steer is still made here in America unlike most of the rest of it's equipment..
( I know, I sold Cat for over 7 1/2 years) ( I sold John Deere for 3 1/2 years and John Deere will out lift and dump higher than the same Cat will plus it has a lot more torque) You are right Gehl is OK, but it's about to go the way of Case.
I have read that the high lift style of skid steer tends to require more maintance than the more simple but lower lifting bucket arrangements. True? What is a ballpark figure for a new skidsteer with a lifting capacity around 1,000 to 1,200 lbs. I probably need to upgrade my ancient Case 1835B one of these days.
Not true!
(other than a few more grease fittings) actually there are features in the John Deere that reduce maintinance over your Case. ( Cat has most of them as well).
If you've used the high lift stlye machines you'll know how much more stable they are than your 1835 is.. You see as you swing away from the machine the center of gravity moves forward causing them to want to tip if they are at max load or over max.. the vertical lift of John Deere and New Holland if it can pick it up it can raise it to it's max.
I've been out of the market long enough to not have a good number for you.. I will tell you not to trade in your machine but rather sell it outright.. we're talking about a lot of differance between what you get for your trade in and what it's worth on the used market..
It's also easiest to get the lowest purchase price if you don't have a trade in..
I may ask you to be a paid negotiator on my next purchase. <G>For sure the Cats are priced higher than the competition, but in my line of work, some of them are still the best deal going.Notice I say "some". Cat does not do everything well. And I have zero brand loyalty. I can buy my own hats, jackets, and BBQ lunches, thank you. The last mini-excavator I bought was a Kubota, and if their mid-size is as good, I will probably buy that, too.But if we're talking skid steers or dozers in a professional application, in my opinion Cat is still the best value for the dollar. Up until recently, I'd say the same for their on-highway truck engines, but I'm afraid they screwed that up permanently. I own two Freightliners with Cat engines, and I will miss them badly when they're gone.The decision process for me is rarely about purchase price. As many contractors know, the low bid is not necessarily the best bid. For me it's about performance, productivity, reliability, ease of maintenance, parts availability, dealership support, minimal downtime, operator comfort, longevity in service, and overall cost to operate over the life of the machine.Deere may have a machine with better specs on paper, but throw them both in the hole for three years, run them hard, track all your productivity and all of your expense, amortize that against the resale value at the end of the machine's useful life, and the Cat is a hands down winner.Mining companies the world over buy Cat for a reason. It doesn't matter where you are or what you need, they will get it to you. I could bore everyone here with stories about the field service that I have received from Cat, and no other brand else can even come close.I don't know anything about selling machines, I've learned a few hard lessons in buying them, but I do know something about running them at a profit.Now for a homeowner, an occasional user, or someone who does not depend upon the machine as a primary source of income, then of course you are correct. Buy the one you like, even if it's cheap. It doesn't matter.
Catskinner,
Congradulations on your successful Cat ownership.. I wish all such purchases were so successful..
As too pricing, Cat sells a lot in bid situations, state, local, federal etc.. selling price is critical not features or anything else and since Cat gets their share and then some, that's your proof of costs..
Having been on the recieving end of hundreds of purchases I know how much maintinance the average Cat got.. Sometimes it was real hard to do follow up calls with new buyers because often the list of problems was so massive..
I will say having sold both Cat dozers and John Deere dozers I'll take the John Deere dozers. I like the six clyinder engine in the Cats but that 4 cylinder in John Deere does a better job with less maintinace.. That plus Cat dozers are imported while John Deere is made here.
Mining companies buy either Cat or Kumatsu stuff for their mines because they are really the only 2 major suppliers. Since most Cat's for mining stuff are made in Japan (and John Deere Excavators are really rebadged Kumatsu's with Deere engines) when it comes to excavators Japan is really the only place (oh yes there are some made in Belgium and Brazil)
As to Cat's 3406 engine , absolutely! it's one of the finest diesels ever made.
Deere excavators are rebadged Hitachis not Komatsu. Case excavators are rebadged Sumitomos and their minis are rebadged Kobelcos.John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
Smaller excavators you're right, however I was speaking about those larger ones used in mining..
Correct.Those Hitachis are some nice excavators. The little bitty Case-Kobelcos would be disappointing if they were free.
We've rented the Case minis and the Bobcat minis and liked them. What is it that you don't like?
I must say that I do like the Bobcat skidsteers. I've got 2 (1 tracked and 1 rubber tired) and have been very happy with virtually no problems. But for Ditch's application I would recommend a tractor or the JD 110 as you did. I've got a Kubota tractor that I won't part with.John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
Nice to see you around again.I'm with Catskinner in saying that a skid steer isn't really suited to building ponds and clearing brush. I've worked on ponds with tractors before. We got the job done with rear mounted blades and dirt scoops, but it was awfully slow going. If you got a mid sized tractor - Maybe 100 HP you could do a lot with it. It would be large enough to put one hell of a loader on. Then you could deal with brush using a brush grapple, like the one in this post:http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=79680.1456The tractor would also be large enough to pull a small scraper for moving dirt and dam building. Something like this: http://www.crispinco.com/landform.htmlA 100 HP tractor would handle a bush hog up to about 15' wide. you probably don't need on that big. But the big, heavy bush hogs will cut trees up to maybe 3" across. Tractors hold their resale vale pretty well. So if you got your heavy work done you could probably recover most of your cost and buy a small tractor for general mowing.
Regret is insight that comes a day late.
Hey Boss,Thanks. It's nice to see so many familiar old friends. I'm living in Kansas now, isn't that your general vicinity?Rich
I've been talked out of a skid loader.I'm going to see what the JD dealer has today. I can nearly walk there from my house. There's a Kubota dealer about 35 miles away, I 'll check them out later this week.Great information.
"I'm going to see what the JD dealer has today."
Nnnnooooooooooooooooooo!!!
Don't give in to the dark side. Walk towards the light instead...
I let my mind wander and it didn't come back.
I'm quite a ways from KC - I live about an hour NE of St. Louis.
There are 50 ways to leave your lover. But getting caught in bed with her sister is pretty foolproof and makes for a much shorter list.
I can't imagine that a man of your experience would ever use anything but a dragline for a pond.
I've watched a lot of earth moving machines, but a dragline with a darn skilled operator on it is a lot like a fine artist.
And I've run a 5' brush hog off a 16 hp Kubota. Worked just fine. (Course, I didn't notice the blown head gasket for a coupla years after...)
Edited 10/27/2008 9:23 am by peteshlagor
I've actually never seen a drag line in use. I don't think anyone around here has one. The ponds I'm thinking about were drained first and the silt allowed to dry. The the silt was removed using a Ferguson with a rear mounted scoop. My Brother and I did the first one when I was maybe 12 or 13. Lotsa fun playing in the mud, getting stuck, pulling each other out, etc.
The most wasted of all days is one without laughter. [E.E. Cummings]
I had a guy dig me one back in '83. I had this swampy area in the front yard (10A lot with the house halfway back into the lot) that was fed from springs draining the hill to the south. This was in S.E. Michigan.
There, the glacial push has created lots of gravel piles and low lying swamps since the whole state is somewhat poorly drained. The swamps commonly have gravel bottoms.
My guy musta dredged out over 10,000 cu yards of peat moss. We took most of it and relocated it over the cleared area of the lot (maybe half of it), maybe a foot deep. My neighbors got themselves a few truckloads also.
But the movements of the operator and cab were amazing. As he comes swinging around after dumping a bucket, he would get a fast spin and cast his bucket like a fishing line way the heck out there, far beyond the boom's length, slow down a bit while pulling his load up and then swing it around, dumping in motion and continuing into the next cast. It was almost dizzying watching him spin like that.
I loved that lot. Had all my own material deposits. If'n I needed nice bank run for a ceement project, I'd go get a back shovel (on the Kubota) worth and drive to my working spot. Sand for backfill or what have you, there'd be another spot in the back yard where I'd get that. The peat, I've already mentioned. Even some thick clay, should I need it, was in another location.
And of course, the rocks I needed were simply found in my diggings.
<<Lotsa fun playing in the mud, getting stuck, pulling each other out, etc. >>I sunk a Volvo L120 (good sized articulated loader) to the belly pan and swam out of a Cat 287, all on the same pond job.It was a little softer than I thought. <G>Ended up finishing it with a 54,000" Hitachi track hoe. Nothing like lifting a couple of tons of mud 30' in the air and letting it go. <G>
<<Tractors hold their resale vale pretty well. So if you got your heavy work done you could probably recover most of your cost and buy a small tractor for general mowing.>>Wise counsel, likely borne of experience. <G>Anyone buying a tractor should always consider resale value. I've got that in a spreadsheet before I make a purchase decision.
The Case used to be the undisputed champion of skidsteers, but the quality control at Case has suffered recently, past year or two, and they are having a lot of trouble. I can't afford that. Down time is bad.Bobcat, it's an OK machine. Nothing wrong with it, I think it depends on the dealer if you get the support.I'm pretty impressed with the JD110, and Kubota is amazing. What a machine.
The CaseIH merger with New Holland was the biggest disaster in modern history if you were a Case customer pre-merger and has been a horrible experience for Case dealers post-merger.I'm not sure about build quality on the construction side as of lately but the newer tractors are back to Case standards circa 1999 which were industry leading at that time.New Holland equipment is all pure S#!T, I wouldn't waste my time even looking at their stuff. JD is overpriced and oversold on reputation. Kubota is coming on strong but not cheap either.IronPlanet.com and machinelocator.com and tractorhouse.com are great places to start looking, gives you a good idea about used values before you buy new. I doubt most homeowners need a new piece of equipment, you'll have a hard time getting a 179 deduction on your tax bill and depreciation expense is REAL - that is value lost.
I've had nothing but good luck with New Holland equipment. We have a big skid steer at the farm that's been pretty bullet proof. And their hay equipment is good. you're the first person I recall saying that they didn't like it.
Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them. [Ronald Reagan]
We ran New Holland hay swathers for years, still have 5 computerized bale wagons 1075-1095s but I can guarantee there is way better stuff out there for the money when it comes to most of their equipment lineup. We farm 2500 acres of hay and would be out of business if we relied on New Holland for equipment these days.I've seen the build quality on CNH suffer horrible trying in vain to capitalize on reducing costs across platforms in order to beat Deere and it has been a wreck.For a homeowner or owner builder it would be hard to go wrong with a 80-100hp MFWD tractor + loader or older model backhoe.
Mining companies buy either Cat or Kumatsu stuff for their mines because they are really the only 2 major suppliers.
No lie. Atlas (and Atlas-Gallion) kind of went by the wayside with the break-up of Dresser back in the 80's.
That, and the market share that Marion & Liebherr have is also pretty tight, too.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
<<Congradulations on your successful Cat ownership.. I wish all such purchases were so successful.. >>Me too. <G> For sure I paid top dollar for the Cats but they have been worth it.<<Having been on the recieving end of hundreds of purchases I know how much maintinance the average Cat got.. Sometimes it was real hard to do follow up calls with new buyers because often the list of problems was so massive..>>I agree. One problem with Cat is they are letting us do their R&D and their QC. They send some real screwed up stuff out the door sometimes. You just have to be careful to know what you're buying and NEVER buy the first year of a design change.<<I will say having sold both Cat dozers and John Deere dozers I'll take the John Deere dozers. I like the six clyinder engine in the Cats but that 4 cylinder in John Deere does a better job with less maintinace.. That plus Cat dozers are imported while John Deere is made here.>>I'd like to hear more about that. I demo'd a Case 650K dozer two years ago. Second day on the job I told the salesman to come get it off my site before I broke it. I had just sold a D-4GXL that I really wish I'd kept. What a beautiful machine.I don't know how the Deere would stack up in the 18,000 to 22,000 pound class, but I have my doubts. Here's why -- if a dozer cannot rip rock, it's useless to me. You could feel the Case's driveline and frame struggling under ripping loads that the Cat would tear through without even straining. I looked at a small Deere, my impression was I'd destroy it in about a week.So I think it depends on what you're doing. Processing import (blending and wetting to optimal), the Case just flat ran circles around the Cat. Cutting drainage channels, same. The Case was a superior machine as long as you didn't load it up in severe service.The Cat dozers are actually Mitsubishis now.And oddly enough, the bigger Volvo excavators are Samsung.<<As to Cat's 3406 engine , absolutely! it's one of the finest diesels ever made. >>Agreed. It's one heck of an engine. I'll miss it when the EPA gets a hold of it.
Yer just saying that because it wouldn't sound as good if you called yourself "DeereSkinner"
Actually Caterpillar does a lot to engender brand loyalty.. Hats beltbuckets jackets etc.. are all normal rewards for buying Caterpillar..
Periodically they invite owners in ansd do open houses feed the owners and show off the newest stuff.
You get newsletters and updates etc..
Very, very, professional..
Caterpillar is the only francise other than Coca Cola where your profit is assured.. So they know the value of long term relations..
Frenchy, I could say those exact same things about our local Deere dealers.
BTW, I have a few Cat hats etc. but I only wear them after dark!
That was good. <G>
Thanks man,What do you think about the versatility of skid steers vs. tractors or compact excavators?...I understand each has it's place. Task is why I own a dozen different hammers, but hammers are cheap.If you had my needs; acres of thick brush to clear, a few hundred post holes to dig, concrete prep, a foundation trench or two, an eventual orchard and at some point an occasional side job, all within a budget of around $35k to $40k (not including trailer); what type of machine would you buy. I'm really leaning towards new. It's hard to pass up zero financing, a warranty and no history of abuse.
I have owned both a kubota tractor and a Bobcat skidsteer. each was best at what it was made for.
the skidsteer for loading and moving bulk material Rrapidly), the Kubota for digging trenches, moving bulk material (slowly) In your case with the parameters you describe I would go with the Kubota tractor, and get one of the contractor series, not a farm and garden variety.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
acres of thick brush to clear, a few hundred post holes to dig, concrete prep, a foundation trench or two, an eventual orchard
I might be inclined in that case to eyeball the Kubota's. They have a lowered model for orchard use that is also 4x4 with a frontend loader. Three point hitch in the back means being able to borrow a standard fence auger rig from almost anyone, too. Three point hitch means being able to use a standard box blade, which is not a stck skid steer accessory.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Agreed.I'd look real hard at the Kubota. I own one and I am delighted with it.
Yer welcome!I would say it depends upon two things -- site access and how fast you need to get it done.If you have plenty of room to work and it does not need to be done quickly, then it's hard to beat a backhoe. John Deere has a very small, inexpensive machine called a JD110 that can be towed behind a pickup, the backhoe comes off and you can put any 3-point hitch implement on, and I think you can get aux hydraulics to the front, also. It's an amazing little machine for the size. If I could only buy one machine and the small size was not a problem, that little 110 is about as good as it gets.If you have more than one person working, if space is limited, or it has to be done quickly, then there is no way to beat two purpose-built machines working together, as CapnMac pointed out correctly. I will typically pair up a big skidsteer with a mini-excavator. There is no way a backhoe can even come close.So for me, I can get into a decent mini-excavator in the 4 metric ton class for about $46K and a really, really strong skidsteer for about $38K -- together, that's about $84K -- the cost of one new backhoe. The two of them working together will move a tremendous amount of dirt in places you can't even fit a backhoe.So it just depends on what you're doing. For me, I don't even own a backhoe. There is no reason to.But if was not doing a lot of specialty work or hanging out of my seatbelt for the first few days of every job, then a backhoe would make sense.Most critical for me, as I hope was clear in my reply to Frenchy, is that we move dirt profitably. There are many factors to that, and they need to be looked at together from the date of purchase right through the disposal of the machine. For me it is the amount of dirt I can move and the cost per ton to do so.But for many folks that is irrelevant. If the machine serves the purpose well, then it was a wise purchase.All depends on what you're doing and why.
"had my needs; acres of thick brush to clear, a few hundred post holes to dig, concrete prep, a foundation trench or two, an eventual orchard and at some point an occasional side job, all within a budget of around $35k to $40k (not including trailer); what type of machine would you buy.
Kubota 48TLB[tractor loader backhoe. }
Its got a three point hitch. 48 hp. All the attachments are qwuick release . It will run every thing skid steers do plus plow , brush hog , etc. 4whd gets you around on the job or farm with power . You would have to have a track skid steer to follow it and it still would not be as fast.
whoaaaaaaaa dude...whats shakin' brothaman? Been awhile since tipi fest. Hope this finds you well man....
a
"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit". abbie
"Give them what they want" abbie
oh yeh..the reason I even opened this thread Ditch...was b/c I wanted to get involved in saw milling and timber framing on my next house if this piece a sh## ever sold.111914.4
Took it off the market for now so maybe in the near future I'll get back to my saw mill research and heavy equiptment to lift the logs.....although...the way it looks...might be in my next life time...ugh
"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit". abbie
"Give them what they want" abbie
Edited 10/25/2008 8:21 pm ET by AbbieHoffman
Edited 10/25/2008 8:23 pm ET by AbbieHoffman
Whatever you do...don't buy a used machine from a rental center.
Sounds to me like you would be better served with a tractor and front-end loader and various 3pt attachments than you would a skid steer.Skid steers have their place in limited space applications and are worth their weight in gold on small projects. Other than that they are an expensive toy.Before you buy anything - RENT IT!! Try a fullsize backhoe or tractor, skid steer, Bobcat UTV whatever you can get your hands on for a weekend.Just because CAT is the gold standard and everyone wants one doesn't mean it's best for you. Service and parts availability is everything in equipment! Will your dealer throw in free mileage for warranty work? Service loaner if you have a breakdown? Skid steers are way overpriced for the relative amount of work they can accomplish on a large scale. You would be much, much better off with a quality used backhoe from municipal or DOT background than even the fanciest new skid steer.We have two old Case 580 hoes that have literally dug hundreds of miles of trench and they are almost impossible to hurt. I would also recommend older CaseIH Maxxum series tractors for your application.Whatever you do - try before you buy and make sure you are extremely happy with the sales and service staff at the dealership.
I agree with you and Im a user.
From what he listed my backhoe does a lot better than they can do. Ive rented skid steers and I think they are a lot of fun but compared to a backhoe they are toys. Sorry everyone that owns a skid steer.
My hoe will handle all skid steer attachments. In fact they are mounted now .
Tim
The brother in law, has decided he prefers, Kubota tractors to skid steers. He went to rent a skid steer, and the rental place had all of them rented out, so they gave him a deal on a Kubota tractor. Two weeks later he bought a new one.
They tear up less ground, and since they have three point hooks ups, with power take offs, there are a huge number of available accesories.
I have a similar bias. The backhoe attachment on the Kubota is more like a "real" backhoe than the attachments for the skid steers. That, and toting the skid-steer backhoe attachment around is a real pain--you wind up wit a long trailer, which negates the utility of the nice compact skid steer.
That being said, I really prefer a mini excavator to either a skid steer with hoe attachment or the small-tractor plus hoe attacment. But that could be a bias from using purpose-built equipment, too. Or the fact that swapoing buckets on the mini-excavator is a lot simpler than all the hydralic line re-rigging; and that the buckets will store on the satme trailer, generally.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Rich,
is that U?
email me brother.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Hey Jeff,Yeah...the aliens finally brought me back after making me procreate with all their females. I see some familiar names and many new ones. I'll send you an email tonight.Rich
"Yeah...the aliens finally brought me back after making me procreate with all their females. "
that's why they call it Tang.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
i've had a newholand/ford... it was ok... i have 2 bobcats one is a very old gas 610 has to be 30+ yrs old, it was old when i got it... still a great little machine in the 20yrs i've had it... one drive belt... a few hoses... and some seals... maybe $500 total including oil changes plus ($400 in tires)... i don't work it everyday but i have worked it for days on end... about 4 yrs ago i got a 753 diesel paid 10k for it... with 470hrs... as of today it has 906 hrs 4 of those today... i have a set of forks... a backhoe attachment... a smooth edge and a tooth edge bucket... i also made a concrete funnel type bucket... and i have a sweeper broom and a concrete mixer that i'll convert to hydroulic when i get the time... zero issues with the bobcat in the 400+ hrs i've had it... one new battery a set of tires (off ebay) a few hyd seals... it has never had to do in for service... and any repair was easy for me to make and fast.. i keep everything lubed a grease gun is always close by...
i'd like a tracked machine... and a mini track hoe... but with what i have i can do about anything i need...
I'm pretty sure my 753 is still worth close to what i paid for it... and i got it from the largest dealer around... i wanted a 763 at the time but couldn't find one... i did build a rack that hangs on the back that holds a 30gal plastic drum that i fill with water when i have to use the forks or really full buckets of wet sand lifted high... that extra 300lbs on the back helps alot...
if you can find a nice clean low hour machine... you might be way ahead... attachment wise you might get some for free with the deal... and if you pay 50% of new then it's alot easier to love it... I'm guess'n there are some deals out there...
p
Another vote for a Kubota TLB. As far as the brush clearing goes, I'd sub that out to someone with a bobcat with a brush grinder attachment. That with grind up to 4" or so trees, and spit it out as mulch.
My Kubota will clear land well. I can doze with the front end and get every thing up to 2 inches round and then I just turn it around. It picks up rocks as well. Be better when I get a thumb on it .
i have a bobcat 742b,thats a gas burner. i have also had a tractor with a loader,and they both have there strong points. one of the things i don't like about a skid loader is i use mine to load ,hold and in general be by helper. if your crawling in and out of this thing 25 times a day you will be worn out. a tractor was no problem getting off and on all day.in tight spaces nothing beats a skid loader.
i'm not sure what kind of money your talking about for one of those,but my personal experence is,if your going to make a living with it and put 2000 hours a year on one you need new,if not you can pick up a pretty decent one that will last a guy a long time at 100 hours a year.
rent most of the complicated and high maintance attachments like trenchers,breakers,backhoes. you gotta own a bucket with teeth,and a set of forks. maybe if your doing a lot of clearing one of those 4n1 buckets[?] they would be nice for picking up and loading into a trailer.
i know a guy that makes pretty good money on the weekend with a tree cutter. larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
I bought a Takeuchi 150 trackloader last year at an auction for $19K. (This Machine is over $60K new).
It had less than 1000 hours on it and is like new. I've used several different trackloaders in the past....Cats, Gehls and Bobcats. (The 150 weights about 10K lbs and sports 100 HP. A real go-getter.
I don't care for the foot controls on the Bobcat. The others are single hand (left) direction, speed and steering and the right hand is the bucket or empliment control.
The controls are pretty much the same for mine and the
cat and the Gehl (I was told that Takeuchi manufactures the Gehl....don't know that for a fact.)
The trackloaders, for me, are way better than the wheeled machines; easy to float the bucket to grade, no flat tires, more stable on steep ground and the ability to wallow around in muck (up to a point).
Couple of weeks ago, I rented a mid sized Case excavator to dredge my pond (part of a salmon habitat maintenance partnership with the local watershed). Moved about 3k yds of muck to a depth of 6 to 10 feet in an easy day-and-a-half.
If I was to buy an small excavator, I'd get a Kabota....they're a great machine with good resale....especially if you get the angle blade capability.
Great buy!!
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Notchman,
No Gehls are made in their own plant in North Dakota.. Takeuchi's are made in Japan..
Both are decent machines.. both are minor players so you take a severe hit on depreciation.. Plus parts is a issue, several dealers get into the game selling those and find out how cut throat it is and wind up closing.. then you'll have to find out who the replacement dealer is and and have them special order all your parts from then on.. The new dealer won't stock any parts for older equipment..
There are exceptions of course but not enough to make a differance..
Edited 10/29/2008 1:22 pm ET by frenchy
The excavation firm I contracted with for years got into the Takeuches several years ago when the track loaders were hitting the market. The owner tried them all and went with the Japanese machine and has really had no problems. He's got 5 of them ....got rid of his Gehls and New Hollands which were wheeled machines.The machine I got was from an inside tip and, since the auction was poorly attended, I was the only bidder and got the machine at the opening bid.The dealer here has had them for a number of years and I don't anticipate problems....which I haven't had any of, so far. Got stuck and threw a track in a nasty muddy hole right after I got it, which was a PITA, but, aside from that, grease, oil, filters and stuff. I've put about 300 hours on it and lease it out on occasion to my excavator buddy and he's put another 450 hours on it.The loader serves me well, but, if I was to have just one machine, it would probably be the Kabota excavator. There are some pretty nifty attachments for those, too.I do hope to pick up some more attachments for the loader when I can afford to...a brush rake, a brush hog and a set of forks would be a good start.I've got a little Canadian mini-trackloader with a 4" X 48" trencher and an auger. You mention trenchers being high maintenance, but I suppose that depends on the local geology....not too rocky here and it eats through smaller tree roots pretty well. I've dug literally miles of ditch in the six years I've had the machine and have only had to grease it and tighten the chain a couple of times.
You're probably right.. Location, location,location..
Here they tend to hit granite rocks kicked up through the subsoil and replacing teeth and chains is just part of the maintinance issues..
As for local dealers.. they are the determining factor.. We sold Takeuchi equipment at Deere before they came out with their own and it was pretty decent stuff. However when we discountinued selling them the parts dept. quickly sold off their parts inventory and everything was a special order from then on..
I sold Gehl equipment as well but it was an uphill battle.. when I arrived we had less than 1% market share and while I got us up into double didget numbers, there still wasn't sufficent presence to make them a factor.. Once Deere came out with their own machine it was all over.. Inside of a year Gehl and Takeuchi went from respectable market share numbers back down into very low single didgets..
The competition is fierce!
I haven't read the whole thread yet but thought I'd throw this in.
View Image
The backhoe detaches very easily so you can add a shredder, box blade, etc.
Every car, truck and tractor in America should run on natural gas- it's the future.
That machine rocks.
Good to have confirmation from someone who really knows equipment like you do to confirm that I made a good purchase.
It was kinda back and forth on a CT332 and the 110 but the 110 won out because I thought it might be more versitle.
I'm using it to clean up an ld farm that has several old buildings on it that need to be torn down, etc.
BTW, that spread sheet you mentioned sounds like a real good tool. Any way you can share a little bit of that?
Every car, truck and tractor in America should run on natural gas- it's the future.
I think you'll be real happy with that 110. I would consider that a wise purchase. The longer you fun it, the more you'll like it is my guess.It is one big little machine.Which spreadsheet are we talking about? I don't remember. Maybe the life-cycle cost? In any case, sure, I can e-mail you an Excel spreadsheet. Would that work?
Edited 12/29/2008 8:01 pm by Catskinner
Thanks, 'skinner. I got the impression from this part of one of your posts in this thread that you had a spreadsheet you used on each piece of equipment you buy that sets out something like the costs, etc. over the life of the unit.
Anyone buying a tractor should always consider resale value. I've got that in a spreadsheet before I make a purchase decision.
Yeah that 110 is sweet. I'm practicing as I go slow but I dug a pretty good sized pit yesterday and cut up a lot of one building and burned it. Think I'm gonna love it.
The reason I was interested in the spreadsheet is for the tax write off. I have a simple system but I thought yours might be better.
Every car, truck and tractor in America should run on natural gas- it's the future.
OK, I'll dig it out and send it your way.
Thanks!
Every car, truck and tractor in America should run on natural gas- it's the future.
Yes, that is right. Every machine gets a place on that spreadsheet.Check your e-mail.
Catskinner,
I've been looking over that spreadsheet and that looks like everything is covered!
Thanks for sending it to me. I do plan to use the 110 for revenue after I get the hang of it on my own place.
I got a thumb just for the demo work.
Thanks, again, on the spreadsheet.
Every car, truck and tractor in America should run on natural gas- it's the future.
You're most welcome.Which thumb did you get? I bet you crack up laughing when you see how big a piece of concrete that little tractor will lift. It's so funny it's ridiculous.That 110 and the little Kubota that someone mentioned are the Swiss Army Knives of small tractors. Pound for pound as productive as anything.If you take your total hourly O&O cost and add 50% that gives you a 30% margin, which is about enough to stay in business. There is no reason to run a tractor for less. You will see people running cheaper, but you don't want to compete with them. That's a race to the bottom.
The thumb is actually going to be installed in a week or so. When I can get off it long enough.
I had to put the 110 'in service' by 12/31 so I couldn't wait for the thumb.
Right now I have an 18'' bucket on the hoe and it's sufficent. The thumb is supposed to be 12".
I'll be billing myself for the hours for a while.
Every car, truck and tractor in America should run on natural gas- it's the future.
I've decided on the Kubota M-59; the only competition for the JD 110. My decision was based on the fact that my local JD dealer has ignored me. It seems they only want to sell $100k machines....
That M59 is a pretty sweet machine. More HP than the JD 110, but more bucks, too.
The deal is all about the dealer though.
Don't forget to post some threads about how you use it and how much you like it.
Every car, truck and tractor in America should run on natural gas- it's the future.
typical profit % on Skid steers is often less than 2% tractors typically work around 8%
that's with all the factory help available and etc..
Not to mention the dollar's involved selling skid steers are a tiny fraction of the dollars involved with tractors and other equipment..