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Replies
That has got to be the oddest and most insane way to do that.
What do you think that guys retirement plan looks like (doubtfull if he will see it )
Well, there aren't that many ways to take down a tall smokestack without causing a mess. Implosion on something that tall and narrow risks the stack falling crooked, and even in the best of circumstances would create a serious hazard to surrounding structures.So long as the stack is sound, this technique should be reasonably safe (though you'd never get me up there).
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I received saw these pictures a while ago. This was a demolition job in England somewhere. I believe JCB put an add in the paper for this job.
Martin
I tried to google those pics and came up zilch.
Do you have any other information regarding it?But alas! we do like cowbirds and cuckoos, which lay their eggs in nests which other birds have built, and cheer no traveller with their chattering and unmusical notes. Shall we forever resign the pleasure of construction to the carpenter? What does architecture amount to in the experience of the mass of men?
-Thoreau's Walden
Not the same one, but ...
http://www.eckert-industrieabbruch-gmbh.de/11-bs-e/ges.htm
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
yep, I came up with a similar but couldn't really detail the top enough to know what they were doing up there.
View ImageBut alas! we do like cowbirds and cuckoos, which lay their eggs in nests which other birds have built, and cheer no traveller with their chattering and unmusical notes. Shall we forever resign the pleasure of construction to the carpenter? What does architecture amount to in the experience of the mass of men?
-Thoreau's Walden
Looks like a grout pump
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Holy smokes! In the video, there is no crane holding the contraption up and it knocks down a big section of chimney that appears to be holding up the aforementioned contraption.
Cool pictures, Seems like a pretty reasonable way to take down that huge tank. I assume it's a tank, no re-bar, no way to just push it over. I think this seems much more controlled than blasting it. The track hoe has the safety of the crane belay but the tripod they've got it mounted on gives it good stability. The jack hammer on the end of the hoe has to be shaking the operator up pretty good. Whoever's running that hoe better be pulling a nice check.
------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
Actually you don't get that much of the impact/vibration from the hoe ram, in the seat. It will however beat out every bushing on the machine.
The cost to have the crane there probably exceeds the purchase price of an old excavator, and building the tripod. One of the high dollar wear points on an excavator is the tracks. So, if you went to the auction or a used equipment dealer and told them you wanted one with a bad under carriage you could buy it pretty inexpensively.
Thanks for posting that. That certainly is a hair raising way to do a demo job. There must be a reason a wrecking ball could not be used.
Handyman, painter, wood floor refinisher, property maintenance in Tulsa, OK
other uses for backhoes...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Actually, that is quite ingenius! I don't think it's really that unsafe, although as Dan said, I'm not sure I'd want to do it. ( Maybe 30 years ago )
Kind of reminds you of the guy sitting on the limb and sawing it off at the tree.
They took a chimney like that down very near us a few years ago. It was within a 100' of other buildings. They blew the side out away from the buildings and it crumbled to the ground in a few seconds.
Judging by the extensive mods to the excavator, I would say they must do this type of work quite often.
that reminds me of when Sylvester was trying to get Tweety, and he sawed off the branch he was sitting on . . .
Doesn't look terribly dangerous to me, since the crane is holding the excavator up. Although I'd bet there could be some exciting monents if you broke out one of the sections that the support legs were sitting on...>Here are the pics again, at about 1/20th the file size:
How can a president not be an actor?" [Ronald Reagan, when asked "How could an actor become president?"]
You do want the crane operator to be on his toes.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Sort of reminds me of a barber we used to have here who drank a lot. Someone asked if you should have him cut and shave while drinking, I said I would not want him to when he was NOT.
That still is pretty spooky. That would be a super time lapse photo study, like the webcam thing on This old House.
I dunno - If he is on his toes, doesn't that indicate he is running away as fast as he can?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Are the legs of that tripod long enuff for when they get down another 50 feet or so? That chimney gets fatter at the bottom.
As a lawyer, this makes me all tingly. It appears to be real, not some sort of photoshopped hoax, but it is preposterous to this non-expert's eyes. Any crane expert out there willing to opine on whether the crane would hold when/if the structure lets go and all of a sudden the machine drops?
Why not blow it up? It doesn't look like there is anything near enough to it to be of concern.
There isn't enough money on the planet to pay me to get up there. Doesn't the UK have something like OSHA?
"Any crane expert out there willing to opine on whether the crane would hold when/if the structure lets go and all of a sudden the machine drops?"
The crane apparently got the thing up there. Why wouldn't it be able to hold it?
Hillary is everywhere. Last night she's on Barbara Walters, this morning she's on Katie Couric, and tomorrow she goes on Diane Sawyer. This is the first time Hillary has been on more women than Bill. [Jay Leno]
"You do want the crane operator to be on his toes."
I would be gripping the buttons on the seat with my A$$!!!
Joe Bartok
Edited 6/19/2007 10:49 am ET by JoeBartok
I am guessing that he supposes the sudden stop of a body in motion can have up to three times the force as a body at rest, but if the three steel wings are there for stability while the crane maintains loaded with the weight, then there is no reason for it to gain any momentum.Something unforseen would need to happen, like a large section caving out instead of in, and landing near or on the crane just as things get unstable at the top.I would not hesitate to work up there, tho there is a possible weak spot in the system in that there is a lack of redundancy in the safety scheme
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I would not hesitate to work up there
With the deepest of respect and with sincere admiration and affection for a fellow Mainer, whose posts are always impeccably reasoned and insightful, are you out of your &*?$# mind? This thing has "Darwin Award" written all over it.
tho there is a possible weak spot in the system in that there is a lack of redundancy in the safety scheme.
Possible weak spot? Lack of redundancy? If there is a safety scheme at all, it is well concealed.
I'd do it too. Doesn't seem that bad to me.
Got to admit that does look like one iffy job,but ya know there are a lot of jobs out in the workplace that are more hair raising than that, running into a burning building when others are trying to run out, trying to stop a weapon toting maniac from shooting folks he does'nt like the looks of,or trying to defend an abstract ideal such as freedom just because somebody, that life gave more chances to, told you to put your life on the line to do it,
But as far as gut wretching stress and dread--that job in my openion goes to the guys that have to go under ground into coal mines where there has been a cave in,or explosion and hunt for survivors or to bring out the dead, I have a friend that does that and i've seen what he goes though each and everytime, that fellow up in that backhoe would seem to have an interesting job, probley make the time just fly by but he wouldn't be able to hold that rescue miners lunch sack in my eyes. DW
I agree that the jobs you list are often,and in some cases, almost always, risky. The backhoe on the chimney is different in that there is likely no history of similar tasks that would allow anyone to assess the risks and decide to do it.
I saw in today's news that nine firefighters were just killed fighting a fire in SC. Most of us think running into a burning building is crazy, but firefighters accept the risks and have training, equipment, etc. that at least may manage the risk to the point where there are people willing to do it. More importantly, firefighters, soldiers, police officers, mine rescuers, etc. are doing important jobs that someone has to do. People who do them are entitled to our respect and gratitude. No one should have to be hoisted hundreds of feet into the air in some Rube Goldbergian contraption just to save some demo money. Its just crazy to me, although I'm no engineer or safety expert.
Tower withstands demolition blast
05 December 2005
Link to article
Print article
South Dakota now has the USA's answer to the leaning tower of Pisa, as the 202-foot-tall Zip Feed Mill tower failed to collapse after a demolition explosion.
Thousands of spectators watched as the explosion made the building drop slightly, lean over, and then stop.
The tower, previously considered the tallest in South Dakota, was earmarked for demolition to make way for new office and retail developments, but now it seems plans have been set back.
Demolition experts had planned to blow one side of the building's supporting columns away, toppling the structure like a tree. However, the building was so rotten it was not stiff enough to be pushed over.
Jim Redyke, president of blasting specialist Dykon Explosive Demolition, explained: "As the weight was transferred to the back side, it crushed the back walls and it crushed the basement wall."
He said the tower just collapsed into the structure's basement and got wedged.
Demolition crews now plan to knock down the tower using cranes, but this may not be possible for a few more days.
Onlookers to the blast at the weekend gave mixed reactions to the building's dogged persistence to stay upright.
Some groaned, but one spectator called out "the building won!'' to the cheers of onlookers.
© 2005, Adfero LtdBut alas! we do like cowbirds and cuckoos, which lay their eggs in nests which other birds have built, and cheer no traveller with their chattering and unmusical notes. Shall we forever resign the pleasure of construction to the carpenter? What does architecture amount to in the experience of the mass of men?
-Thoreau's Walden
So South Dakota has a leaning tower - so does Caerphilly, Wales. Funny story; my family visited Wales in 2001, looked at a lot of castles -I mean, they're all over the place ! We got to Caerphilly, and I saw their castle . . . .
View Image
That little tower on the right alarmed me - they ought to blast that thing, it's gonna fall one day and hurt someone !
Found out it's been like that since 1271 ! ! !
I went back home.
Greg
Here's a better shot !
View Image<!---->
Edited 6/20/2007 4:26 pm ET by GregGibson
"I saw in today's news that nine firefighters were just killed fighting a fire in SC."
That tragedy occurred about 100 miles from my home. I'd love to know what the rational was to send those firemen into that building. From what I've heard so far, it was simply a blazing furniture store that had already been evacuated. If that turns out to be the case, I'll be anxious to see if someone will be able to legitimize such a senseless loss.
New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
What looks dangerous to a lawyer does not seem so to the kind of people who do that sort of work.
It is a matter of perception and experience.
Similarly - or conversely I should say, there are probably a dozen guys who would shake and shudder at the thought of facing a judge over a minor affair or who would fail miserably in filling out a simple legal form for every one attorney who would not want to work at the top of that tower.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
What looks dangerous to a lawyer does not seem so to the kind of people who do that sort of work.It is a matter of perception and experience.Similarly - or conversely I should say, there are probably a dozen guys who would shake and shudder at the thought of facing a judge over a minor affair or who would fail miserably in filling out a simple legal form for every one attorney who would not want to work at the top of that tower.
I suppose you are correct, but if I screw up, I don't fall three hundred feet to my death. When I was a carpenter of sorts, many years ago, I had no problem with heights, but I like to think that I would have drawn the line at the chimney job.
No one should have to be hoisted hundreds of feet into the air in some Rube Goldbergian contraption just to save some demo money. Its just crazy to me, although I'm no engineer or safety expert.
Some jobs are dangerous, plain and simple. But there are always people willing to take on the risk for a variety of reasons. I am comfortable with the concept of allowing people to determine for themselves the amount of risk they are willing to take.
You're assuming that the chosen plan is a stupid one just to save some money. That's a big assumption on your part. Neither one of us is a demolition expert, but I'm willing to give the guys in the picture the benefit of the doubt. I'm willing to bet that they considered implosions and other possible solutions and decided that the approach they took was the best way to do it.
The only other alternative I could come up with would be to use a remotely controlled hoe at the top of the stack. I've seen those in videos, but I have no idea as to their global availability.
EDIT: I went back and looked at the photos more carefully. Unfortunately, there's not a clear shot of the cab to tell with certainty whether there's an operator.
I wonder if we'd be able to tell if it were remotely controlled from the pics?
Edited 6/19/2007 7:03 pm ET by Ragnar17
I think everyone is missing something here. In the closeup shot it looks like the outside of the stack is brick.
If it is, that stack was laid by hand, probably using wooden scaffold.
I would rather be in the hoe.
The one they just blew over near us was 325 feet tall. It was built in the early 1900s. It was brick, just like the one in the picture , and built by hand with wooden scaffolding.
The engineer from the blasting company was amazed when they surveyed it. He said it was absolutely perfectly shaped and plumb.
Can you imagine being a steeplejack in the 19th century? Three or four guys building a chimney, hauling up all their brick by hand. Maintaining plumb while you constantly diminish the circumference. They were real craftsmen.
The National Geographic Channel ran programs on demolition all day on Father's day. One featured four chimneys blown down at the same time, and one of those deviated 20 degrees from its intended path. 20 degrees on a 325 foot chimney puts it quite a way from where it should be.
Can you imagine being a steeplejack in the 19th century? Three or four guys building a chimney, hauling up all their brick by hand. Maintaining plumb while you constantly diminish the circumference.
You don't need to go back to the 19th century. In 1986, while I was laying up the brick front of a steam plant, a crew out of Buffalo, NY was laying up the brick chimney. It was a crew of five and they went up about 10 feet a day. The chimney consisted of two layers of bricks: an exterior wythe of regular bricks and an interior wythe of firebricks. Both wythes had radiused faces. The company, International Chimney, fired their own bricks. They used refactory mortar for the inside wythe and portland cement/ lime mortar for the outside.
The crew worked from inside the chimney. They left pockets in the inside width, into which they inserted the scaffolding beams. They left a hole in the middle of the scaffolding. They set up a boom with a wheel; the wheel was about twelve feet above their heads. A steel cable ran up the center of the chimney, through the wheel and out to a winch, which was set up a couple of hundred feet from the chimney. One laborer stayed at the bottom and another operated the winch. Material was sent up the center of the chimney to the other laborer on the scaffold. Going inside the chimney base to load up the material was very dangerous because of the hazard of falling objects. The masons used adjustable levels to maintain the taper. As they went up, they had to change to bricks which had a tighter radius on the face to conform to the smaller circumference of the chimney. When they finished the chimney, they leap-frogged down, filling in the pockets as they went. It was a specialized operation and these guys traveled all over the world to build chimneys.
Man, that's a cool story!
Love stuff like that.
Forrest - not a specialist
Definitely very cool... just think of it... everywhere you go, the local girls are ga-ga for the traveling circular chimney masons. I'm there, as long as I'm not the guy at the bottom loading the bucket, and as long as I'm not a guy way up on scaffolding either. Maybe I can be the road manager.
I'll try to post a couple of scanned pictures of that job.
Edited 6/20/2007 3:37 pm ET by Mudslinger
Let's see if these work. The first picture shows the work I did on the front of the steam plant. The second shows an existing chimney that International Chimney repaired. They built a second chimney about 50 ft. behind it that was the same size. I think it ended up about 120 ft. tall, which is pretty small for those kinds of chimneys.
Edited 6/20/2007 4:25 pm ET by Mudslinger
Why do they call those 'shot towers'?Where is this division of labor to end? and what object does it finally serve? No doubt another may also think for me; but it is not therefore desirable that he should do so to the exclusion of my thinking for myself.
-Thoreau's Walden
Molten lead was poured through a screen to make lead shot of size that matched the screen. It got round as it cooled and dropped.
Wow! Nice work!
Forrest - wish I had a hand for fine masonry
1986! That was a very evokative description. Can you imagine the view unfolding as they built their way up?
By the way, here's a picture of a similar demolition job (the link was posted earlier by DanH, but I missed it).
The picture is from the Mainz-Weisenau area of Germany on the Rhein.
The link states that detonations were ruled out due to the proximity of the 105m tower to dock walls on the river.
http://www.eckert-industrieabbruch-gmbh.de/11-bs-e/ges.htm
View Image
Edited 6/19/2007 11:10 pm ET by Ragnar17
That one is remote, but not very.
The operator is on the scaffolding, think I'd have figured a way to do it from the ground with a good videl feed.
Looks like a more professional set up, but the other guys are probably having more fun.
Joe H
Joe,
I was actually wondering if the first setup was remote -- there's no clear shot of the cab, so I can't tell if there's an operator or not. Everyone's assuming there's an operator, but that may not have been the case.
The second one (in Germany) is, as you pointed out, "remote" -- but more like a remote-controlled toy with a 3-foot cord. ;) Seemed like kind of a strange choice to me, too.
Did you see the little video clip at the link?
What I really want to know is how they scooted that scaffolding down the stack as they went. Maybe it's easier than I imagine.
Edited 6/20/2007 1:04 am ET by Ragnar17
gravity...
dig the stack out from under it..Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I think it's instructive that we have at least two different examples, apparently from different companies, of the same basic technique being used. This suggests that it's not totally harebrained.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Sir, you seem like a good lawyer , I whole heartedly agree with you about risking that fellows life to save a buck,no sence in it, not unless he wants to be there, heck he probley came up with the idea, and also, you have probley like myself have seen enough suc butts/arse kissers to know if it was an employee and he/she was so inclined to try and impress the boss ,with making a bad idea work, there would be no talking them out of it
After many years of working heavy manufacturingand construction I have seen my fair share of Rube Goldberg ideas--some worked -- and the ones that didn't turned to dawg doody in a couple of milliseconds, ya kind of learn to stand back and let nature take its course in some cases.
Same here. A high job is one that so many guys will not do, that it means one that pays better and nobody screws with you.Plus, the view is better.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yeah, keep in mind that the stack was built in a similar fashion, with the lower stack supporting the forms for the upper part. Only then the lower concrete was still "green" and weak, a source of many accidents when constructing such things.I'm guessing that the protocol is for the crane operator to keep the cable taut. The backhoe operator cuts away three segments between each pair of the three legs, then radios the crane operator to lift. Once lifted, the backhoe operator uses his "icepick" to twist himself 60 degrees so the legs rest in the notches he's made. Then he's lowered and begins chopping away at things again.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
If you look at the three steel legs, you can see white paint lines on them, probably to help them roughly center it.
While it looks spooky, that crane is capable of one heck of a lot more lift than a backhoe. I imagine that they keep the hoist rope lightly taut. I would guess that these guys have done this before, and the potential liability is probably vastly less than knocking it down with explosives.
All the debris falls inside, and is probably dug out of the bottom with loaders periodically.
"...the crane maintains loaded with the weight, then there is no reason for it to gain any momentum."
My thoughts exactly. As long as the cable is tight there shouldn't be a problem.
It is more profitable for your congressman to support the tobacco industry than your life [Jackie Mason]
The crane apparently got the thing up there. Why wouldn't it be able to hold it?
Because when the backhoe suddenly dropped, it would accelerate and the resulting load on the crane would exceed the original load when it was carefully picked up and raised. It's the difference between picking up a weight and catching one that's falling. Could the crane operator maintain enough tension on the load as the machine worked to avoid any acceleration at all, while still allowing the backhoe to work? I dunno. Does the crane boom have any flex in it while under load?
Any engineers out there who, if asked, would have put their stamp of approval on this arrangement? In my business, we call people like that defendants.
wals get thicker too...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Thanks for resizing the pics.
That is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. Isn't that what demolition specialists are for. Must have been the safety inspectors week off.
Who's dumber? The idiot that came up with the idea or the bonehead operating the backhoe?
Dave
How do you know they aren't the same guy?
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I just figured that something that stupid would require use of what we call around here, "The Box". What is the Box you ask? The Box is what holds the "Community Brain Cell". The guy in the backhoe has The Box right now. I assumed someone else had it before him.
LOL
Dave
boo hooNow you've hurt my feelings
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Nice !!!! looks safe enough to me,,,,,what in the world kind of stack is that,and why the wall thickness,,,,,the mason probably retired on that one !!!!
Nice job on reducing the file size on the pics,,,, I would like to know how to do that ?
and the post script about " hard work not making up for sloppy estimates "
I resemble that remark,,,,,I take lotsa pride in my work , but seems like my estimates
suck !!! Thanks for sharing !!!!!!!!!
Nice job on reducing the file size on the pics,,,, I would like to know how to do that ?
Lots of people here use a freeware program called Irfanview.
http://irfanview.com/
thanks !
Nice !!!! looks safe enough to me,,,,,what in the world kind of stack is that,and why the wall thickness,,,,,the mason probably retired on that one !!!
That is a puny little stack! If you want to see a real stack, go to Sudbury, Ontario.
It's high enough to kill everything in a 25 mile radius!!
24441.75I never in all my walks came across a man engaged in so simple and natural an occupation as building his house. We belong to the community. It is not the tailor alone who is the ninth part of a man; it is as much the preacher, and the merchant, and the farmer.
-Thoreau's Walden
ruined a perfectly good chimney
;)
jt8
"When I was a young man I vowed never to marry until I found the ideal woman. Well, I found her but, alas, she was waiting for the ideal man." -- Alain
Edited 6/20/2007 11:48 pm by JohnT8