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Discussion Forum

Slate & Copper

pixelfixel | Posted in General Discussion on October 13, 2009 05:15am

And so it begins…. It will be interesting to find out just how long this little project is going to take me, but I’m pretty excited about it. Gonna tear off my old slate roof, install new slate and install a copper box gutter V shaped. Never done it before, but I’m gonna have a little help from Duane this weekend.Here are some pics of me gettin’ ready. Oh, and I do plan on removing the slate 1st. before doing the copper after doing this side. In learnin’ phase.

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  1. bk24 | Oct 13, 2009 05:42pm | #1

    Looking good.  I'll definitely be watching.  Where in Jersey are you?  I'm in the northern part, right where 287 and Route 23 intersect (near Wayne).

    1. User avater
      pixelfixel | Oct 13, 2009 05:44pm | #2

      Thanks- I'm in Highland Park, which is just over the bridge from New Brunswick. Rutgers land.

  2. seeyou | Oct 14, 2009 12:15am | #3

    Hell, that gutter is a cake walk. You'll do fine. Take us lots of pictures.

    copper p0rn

  3. mikeroop | Oct 14, 2009 01:31am | #4

    I guess I'm most impressed that that brake will bend that copper without springing the brake.

     

    keep'em comin.

    1. User avater
      pixelfixel | Oct 14, 2009 01:56am | #5

      That brake is really old but I get to use it for free. Hardest part was folding 1/2 inch. Kept pushing it back through so I had to use some aluminum flashing underneath it and it worked fine. The first dripedge I made confused the hell out of me until I realized (finally) I was holding it upside down! I'll take plenty of pics. Hoping for good weather when Duane comes. Thanks for your replies, and help-Jim

      1. User avater
        Jeff_Clarke | Oct 14, 2009 02:54am | #6

        Um, looking good (your existing 'roofers' - roofing boards) are in good shape.

        Where's the eave coursing of ice and water shield?Jeff

      2. mikeroop | Oct 14, 2009 03:58am | #7

        I'm assuming this duane character you speak of is our very own sphere?

        he's mia here?

  4. Pelipeth | Oct 14, 2009 11:54am | #8

    My question also, where is the peel and stick membrane? Critical component for any roofing job.

    1. seeyou | Oct 14, 2009 12:24pm | #9

      Critical component for any roofing job.

      Not according to Joseph Jenkins, author of the "Slater's Bible".

      Also, It wouldn't go on 'til after the metal. He's not done yet. copper p0rn

      1. theslateman | Oct 14, 2009 12:27pm | #10

        You don't believe everything you read ,  do ya ??

        1. seeyou | Oct 14, 2009 12:47pm | #11

          Nope. But jimmiejim's crib never had I&WS before and it lasted this long.  I&WS is too often used as insurance when the roofer is clueless on how to do it right, especially in my climate.

          We use it (probably more sparingly than most), but the assertion that roofing without it is impossible or somehow "hack work" is bogus, IMHO.copper p0rn

          1. theslateman | Oct 14, 2009 12:58pm | #12

            I agree with you , Grace has made good roofers of some mediocre talent .

            Heating requirements are different then when some of these homes were first built too .

            I do use it with slate as a cheap insurance policy for really tough Winter conditions  -- such as " The mighty Penobscot " thread .

            The old guys in my region used metal for keeping the ice dams at bay too .

          2. User avater
            Jeff_Clarke | Oct 14, 2009 02:53pm | #13

            Ice and Water Shield membrane is required by code for eave protection in NJ under the IRC 2006 NJE - the location of this project.

          3. seeyou | Oct 14, 2009 03:04pm | #14

            And it should lap over the copper gutter liner, not under it. He's not ready for it yet.copper p0rn

      2. Pelipeth | Oct 15, 2009 01:37am | #15

        Point taken

        1. User avater
          pixelfixel | Oct 16, 2009 08:42pm | #16

          Thank you all for your responses. I'll be using I&WS since it is required by code. Thanks for that. Was hoping to take some pics this weekend with Duane coming (yes that's the same Duane) but it's a bit rainy here, so we will postpone a couple weeks. Thanks again everyone.
          Jim

  5. User avater
    pixelfixel | Dec 07, 2009 08:42pm | #17

    Hi all.

    Was going to go with new Penn Gray and have a chance to get this slate for 1/2 the price. Says it's salvaged Peach Bottom. I'm thinking it might be better to go with the new stuff. What do you think?

    1. theslateman | Dec 07, 2009 09:11pm | #18

      Penn. gray might have a life expectancy of 40 years .

      If that is salvaged PB it will likely last double that .

      You do the math .

      Walter

      1. User avater
        pixelfixel | Dec 07, 2009 10:17pm | #19

        Thanks Walter. Well that's good news for me then. The size is 14x20 and he says it's 40yrs. old. Gonna be hard for me to really tell if it's pb but I may drive out there (3 hrs.) and check it out Fri. Anything I should look for before purchasing?

        1. theslateman | Dec 07, 2009 10:34pm | #20

          Jimmy ,

          Sound some of them to be sure they still " ring " and don't sound dead .

          Look for complete sq. corners on the exposed ends .

          Take count of how many are there so you'll have enough for your roof .

          There are about 120 pcs per sq>

          Walter

          1. User avater
            pixelfixel | Dec 07, 2009 10:38pm | #21

            Perfect Walter. Thanks,
            Jim

          2. User avater
            pixelfixel | Feb 06, 2010 06:15pm | #22

            Hi all. Not posted in a while. Finally have my slate, and it seems the verdict is that it is Buckingham which is quite fine with me. I have 13 sq. of 14x20. Wish I got a sq. more just to play it safe. The size of the slate is a bit rectangular, and not as square as it is on my house, but I think it should look quite nice when done. Gonna see if I can come up with some simple design that is just on the front of the dormer with maybe some green and red slate. Maybe just something small. Anyway, I have 3 questions:

            1.) Anyone have any pics of scaffolding in a way that enables you to reach the front of the dormer roof. I have an idea of building a platform off of my scaffold that attaches to the shingles are on the side of the dormer (ripping them off anyway, but was just curious to see how the pros do it. The scaffold is obviously too far away from the dormer even when put right up against the gutter.

            2.) I attached a pic of metal flashing that is just beneath the dormer. Does anyone know how the hell this is attached to my house? Can I just pry it/cut it out? Looks like the sill was nailed on top of it to me.

            3.) The length of copper built in gutter is roughly 29 feet all around my square house. Do you think it would be wise to put expansion joints on all 4 corners? I'm thinking not. I'm copper riveting 8 ft. sheets finally this Spring. Really.

            Thanks,

            Jim

          3. seeyou | Feb 08, 2010 07:27am | #23

            >>>>>Anyone have any pics of scaffolding in a way that enables you to reach the front of the dormer roof. <<<>>Looks like the sill was nailed on top of it to me.<<<>>Do you think it would be wise to put expansion joints on all 4 corners? <<<<

            NO. But, pre-tin your joints.

          4. User avater
            pixelfixel | Feb 08, 2010 04:58pm | #24

            Thanks seeyou-

          5. User avater
            pixelfixel | Feb 14, 2010 08:06pm | #25

            Practiced some flat lock on some galvanized I have. Look ok? I'm folding the edges at 3/4". As far as the cant goes, I figure I can cut a piece of wood that matches the triangular shape and attach it to the roof underneath the metal so I can peen it down.

            What do you guys do when working the cant into the gutter? Does this look right?

            Oh, and I'll be sure to pre-tin the edges prior to bending.

            When cutting for the downtube I assume I drill the 4" hole into the wood gutter then place the copper down and trace the hole from the bottom of the wood. Take the metal off and then cut out with snips right? Curious if you drill right through the copper and wood at the same time. Think that might be hard to do with that V since its not flat.

            Thanks!

          6. seeyou | Feb 14, 2010 08:18pm | #26

            Looks good, Jim. I typically don't bend the cant into the gutter pan. I make it as a separate piece and then tack solder it down after the gutter pans are finished. Works just as well and is less fiddly.

            We usually run the hole saw thru the copper unless there's no rot around an existing hole and we don't need the hole saw. In that case, we lay the pan and then stab a pair of shears into the center to start the hole and cut it from the top. Marking the hole and and then removing the pan and cutting it and re-installing it is a lot of work and the hole might creep some when the locks are hammered, leaving it off center.

            I use a 12" long bit in the hole saw which allows you to go thru plumb as long as you start out plumb.

            Good questions that I wouldn't have thought to answer in advance.

          7. User avater
            pixelfixel | Feb 16, 2010 06:10pm | #27

            Good advise. The less fiddly the better- and it will make my life easier not bending that cant into a large sheet.

            Thanks again for your help-

            Jim

  6. User avater
    pixelfixel | Sep 12, 2010 05:52pm | #28

    I've been slating a wee bit anyway

    Hi all. My mothers had been sick for the past 6 months and recently died last week of lung cancer. Never smoked a day in her life! Total surprise to everyone. Totally sucks. Anyway, gonna try and get back into it in the coming weeks.  Attached is what I've accomplished thus far. Haven't had problems other than cutting the slate on the diagonal which matches the grain of the slate. Sooooo I'm havin' some problems when I have to cut a diagonal to a nice point in the valley. Sometimes the point breaks off at about an inch. I do cut a relief cut and have the same problem. It's important to note that I don't always have this problem, I use the Stortz 95B cutter and I'm very happy with it. I'm assuming it's a technique problem on my part, but have practiced with hammer and stake, but with pretty much the same result.

    Might get a wet saw to help with this. What do you think? Appreciate any comments. Good or bad on the pics of the dormer. I'm a newbie to slating.

       

    Thanks,

    Jim

    1. Scott | Sep 12, 2010 08:27pm | #29

      Sorry to hear about your Mom. I lost my dad this year to the same dragon, though not so much a surprise as you.

      The job looks great. You're gonna feel like a million bucks when that's done. It takes a special kind of homeowner to stick with historical truths.

      1. User avater
        pixelfixel | Sep 13, 2010 06:56pm | #30

        Sorry to hear of your father as well. Hard to lose a parent.

        Thanks for the compliments, it's nice to step back and see it. Looking forward to getting to the copper gutter when I finish the dormer. I'll post some pics of that when I get to it in a year or two....Only joking.......I hope.

        If any slaters are looking for cheap (gas money)  help on a weekends and the work is in central Jersey, email me. Love to learn some tricks from the pro's. 

  7. User avater
    pixelfixel | Oct 03, 2010 08:16am | #31

    Pain In The Hips

    http://www.magnumtools.com/shopexd.asp?id=5730&bc=no

    Although I'm getting better at it, the installation of the hip slates is harder than I anticipated. Getting those slates to close nice and tight at the top requires a technique that i don't seem to have yet. Also realized my spacing was too close. Well, looks nice from the ground.

    I just bought a wet saw and I'm going to try and see if it helps to cut a 45 bevel at the top. In any case I'll have nice clean cuts and it will be faster to cut. Put the thing together yesterday and the damn plastic tray has cracks in it. Couldn't see until I put water in it. Had to give the break back unfortunately, so I'm looking for one. Can't seem to find one on Craigslist. Does this one look good? I was going to get the cutter as well-figure I could just sell it when done. Thanks-

     

     

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