Hi All,
I have a small addition coming up that will be built on a new concrete slab. The finished floor will be t&g pine, over either Advantech or plywood, on top of 2x sleepers. The flooring will be face nailed with cut nails. My concern is the compatibility of cut nails and PT sleepers. I’m thinking either borate treated sleepers, or using KD sleepers separated from the concrete with strips of I&W or vycor.
Anyone done something like this recently?
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Replies
the cut nails are not ACQ rated and will disolve in short order...
Vycor wrapped sleepers is a good way....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
The deterior ation is not that bad with only ambient moisture as opposed to runnig wet. I would use the PT and the cut nails.
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plain steel nails, PT and CC
just moved a basement wall that was cut nailed a month ago or so directly to the CC...
the nails were were in ragged corroded shape...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Which portion of the nail was corroded?, the portion in the concrete or the portion in the PT? and did you pull a nail out of the PT to see? just curious......
Geoff
in the PT...
pulled the nails because I was intending to reuse the PT...
went to KD, Vycore and tapcons instead of reusing the PT......Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
For my education - I thought it was only when plenty of moisture present that the PT caused excessive corrosion.Was the rust you saw in the part of the nail buried in the crete, or the part up in the plate, or in both?I'm thinking it was because you had a PT to crete joint where water wicks up from the crete and the ground under, but if this guy has dryed PT and his joint is in the next higher plane from dry flooring to dry PT, the rust would not be excessive and the worst of it would be the part of the nail in the PT, where it would eventually expand enough to lock itself into the wood.There's my theory anyway
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floating wall construction...
the bulk of the rust / corrosion was on the nail that imbedded in the PT (ACQ)...
the nails pulled very easily...
also the 100d (brights) keepers were rusted where they were imbedded in the PT...
they pulled easily too...
the portion of the nail that was in the CC was in fair condition...
the house was built on expansive soil and the sump ran every so often while I was there...
the house is going on the market soon... HO said not fix anything...
the DW isn't on yet and the framing hasn't had it's sign off yet...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Thanks for your thoughts. I'm leaning away from using PT due to documented incompatibility of steel and copper. I'm hearing rumors that maybe the corrosion issue isn't so bad after all but I don't want to risk a failed floor. Maybe this is an opportunity to try that Dri-Core stuff. Skip the sleepers altogether and float the floor on Dri-Core panels? Hmmm.....there's a thought. Anyone see a downside to that?
I just did a little research and found that Tremont Nail makes a hot dipped galvanized rosehead cut nail. $43 for a 5 lb box, ouch!
I just redid my kitchen with a plywood subfloor over slab. At first I was planning on using the dricoreknock-off that thay sell at Lowes. I went so far as to actually have bought the stuff and was ready to put it in on the weekend. But on Thursday I happened to be back at Lowes looking for the plastic shims you're supposed to use to level the individual squares out and saw the dimpled plastic stuff made by Cosella-Dorken. It's called Delta FL. I liked it better than the 2' x 2' squares of the Dri-core because there are a lot less seams and it can be used with traditional t&g ply. It was sort of a hassle screwing everything down (Tapcons) but the floor was really nice after I got everything down.
so what do ya think???Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I like the Delta FL. Used in a basement - different application so I never thought of it forthis
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
not familar with the Delta FL (Florida?)...
is it called something else here...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
http://www.cosella-dorken.com/bvf/ca-en/products/floor/products/FL.phpwith the dricore, the bubbles are laminated part of the osb.
With delta, you roll out a sheet and then lay full sheets of advanteec or ply.provides isolation, breathing, drianage...Still ned to lock the sheathing down though with a few tapcons
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don't recall having seen that here...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
This stuff looks interesting, will have to take a look at it. Specs say that the dimple height is 5/16ths. Is that the total product thickness?
Yeah, my memory is that it added about 3/8" to the elevation
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Interesting Thread here...92277.1
September 1, 1842. Mr. Thoreau dined with us yesterday. He is a singular character — a young man with much of wild original nature still remaining in him; and so far as he is sophisticated, it is in a way and method of his own. He is as ugly as sin, long-nosed, queer-mouthed, and with uncouth and rustic, though courteous manners, corresponding very well with such an exterior. But his ugliness is of an honest and agreeable fashion, and becomes him much better than beauty. He was educated, I believe, at Cambridge, and foremerly kept school in this town; but for two or three years back, he has repudiated all regular modes of getting a living, and seems inclined to lead a sort of Indian life among civilized men — an Indian life, I mean, as respects the absence of any systematic effort for a livelihood.-Nathaniel Hawthorne, from American Notebooks
Saw that already. Thanks
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Hey Redford,
How about using KD sleepers and a strip of #30 felt under them?, cheaper than I&W or Vycor, but just as effective. Just cut the strips 5" wide, or if you're cocerned with needing to PL the sleepers just cheat and use the KD fastened directly to the slab....I'm assuming this is an interior location so no exposure to weather, and if they've done the slab correctly, they installed a vapor barrier of 6 mil poly.
Oh, and also assuming the BI won't see this, or maybe won't call you on it since it's interior. But if you have to, or want to glue it, you're better off with the Vycor or I&W.
Another alternative is to go w/ a 5/4 PT sleepers @2' OC, glued and nailed/screwed, with appropriate fasteners, then use 1" or 1 1/8" Advantech or ply, and avoid the sleepers for fastening the T&G Pine and if you must nail where there is a sleeper use a @ 1 3/4" or 1 1/2" cut nail.
Or, just set your nailing pattern to avoid the PT sleepers, I doubt you'd have any problems if you used shorter nails(1 1/2") for those locations and 2" everywhere else.
Geoff
Hi RedfordHenry,
Just thought I'd give you my 2 cents from the West Coast.
We are required to use galvanized nails into PT lumber because of the corrosion. I also have demo'd many different structures where the common nails have rusted in PT material. The rumor is something to do with the chemical reaction between steel and the chemicals in PT.
Not everyone use's galvanized nails, "I've been guilty myself ", back in the day nailing ponywall studs down to mudsill. But your supposed to! I believe you can use stainless steel also but not positive, " not that I've ever been wrong before...ha ha " and who's going to spend the money on stainlees when galvie's work.
Howie
who?I use stainless for framing to PT for one.The questio is one of whether to use them for this particular non-structural useage. Itr always requires the presence of moisture for galvanic reactions to occour. So it is a matter of whether the PT is still wet or if it can uptake moisture through the slab.
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go one better...
don't use PT (ACQ)Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Sorry, didn't mean that no one does! I have also! I was kinda reffering to alot of owners and contractors I've run across that wouldn't spend the extra money for stainless.