Replies

1. 
   fingersandtoes | Dec 07, 2007 06:57am | #1

   You might want to go to Building Science and look at their recommendations for finishing basements. They suggest forgoing the sleepers and instead putting down foam with plywood. There was an article in FHB sometime last year which showed similar  details.

2. 
   RedfordHenry | Dec 07, 2007 07:14am | #2

   If you decide to go with sleepers, and will be attaching any type of flooring directly to the sleepers with anything other than stainless steel fasteners, you might consider using borate treated instead of PT.  Borate treated, also known as blue wood, is resistant to microbial and insect damage but is not corrosive to steel.  To fasten, I'd use a Hilti or Ramset type gun with 2.5 or 3 inch pins.  One pin every 24" or so is usually more than adequate.  You can rent these guns at most tool rental places.  Is much faster than drilling/anchoring and makes a better connection.

3. 
   K1500 | Dec 07, 2007 09:26am | #3

   I don't know about 'best practice', but I have laid tapered sleepers with PL Premium and Tapcons (ramset would probably work fine too).  No VB, and I really think the fasteners were mostly acting like temporary clamps until the PL took hold.  I don't see any problem with securing the subfloor with HD galv fasteners, especially if you use subfloor adhesive as well.  Of course, I haven't been back to a job 20-40 years later to see if it held up, so who knows?  As far as a VB, I have no clue, but I don't suppose it could hurt with hardwood going above it.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 12/7/2007 1:27 am ET by K1500

4. 
   Piffin | Dec 07, 2007 04:07pm | #4

   You don't have hot water radiant heat in slab do you?

   I've done the PT sleepers with tapcons and glue before, a couple of times, but if I had another to do another, I would use a product called dricore or similar

    

    

   Welcome to the
   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
   Excellence is its own reward!

5. 
   Jeff_Clarke | Dec 07, 2007 04:15pm | #5

   You need a VB - 8 mil poly

   If you put down 1" insulation between the sleepers you'll avoid 'that hollow feeling'

    

   Jeff

1. 
   gmat | Dec 07, 2007 06:26pm | #6

   Thanks to all for their input.

   I pretty much have to install the sleepers to get the correct floor height.  A 3/4" T&G subfloor is then specified with the HW laid over that.  I'd like to use construction adhesive along with the fasteners to set the sleepers (Ramset rather than Tapcons...the thought of drilling all the holes makes my back ache already).  I had been told to put a VB down first and then lay the sleepers which would eliminate the possibility of adhesive.  Can I put the VB over the sleepers before the plywood is laid?

   Also, where is the 'Building Science' info that was mentioned? 

1. 
   Jeff_Clarke | Dec 07, 2007 06:41pm | #7

   Sure.

   Jeff

1. 
   Yersmay | Dec 07, 2007 09:29pm | #8

   I have a similar job coming up and I have a question about the Ramset nail. Will the nail head from the ramset keep the T & G subfloor from a tight and solid connection to the top of the sleeper?

1. 
   IMERC | Dec 07, 2007 09:32pm | #9

   not if you use a hot enough load to counter sink it...

   don't try to drive the proud ones... cut them off with a grinder... 

   Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

   WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

2. 
   RedfordHenry | Dec 09, 2007 02:18am | #13

   Done correctly with the proper load and depth setting on the gun (I use "red" in my Hilti gun), the nails will should be set below the top of the sleeper.  Every once in a while one is left proud but a few smacks with the 28 oz Estwing takes care of that. 

2. 
   Piffin | Dec 08, 2007 02:36pm | #10

   VB over sleepers.But there are a lot of ways to gain your elevation without sleepersGoogle for building science website 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

6. 
   Captndestructo | Dec 08, 2007 10:11pm | #11

   I am framing two  houses on concrete slab.  Plans call for 1 1/2 inch sleepers on the slab throughout the first floor of both houses.  Slab is out of level and has many peaks and valleys.  Plans call for the sleepers to be glued and shot down with hilti fasteners.  I thought I was ahead of the game with these houses because the slab was the first floor and I got my normal square foot price, (without having to frame first floor system) Between having to cut each first floor stud to different lengths and planing and shimming sleepers I am atleast a week behind.    One system I used in the past was to install vapor barrier, then 3/4 inch t&G foam then 1/2 osb (because of the stability)  I used plywood clips on 16" centers between the osb panels and duct taped the seams.  Installed 3/4" hardwood floors on top.  Floor came out great, but did not sound the same as hardwood on second floor.

1. 
   Gmo | Dec 09, 2007 01:42am | #12

   Years ago I prepped a floor by ripping 3/4 inch P.T. ply into six inch strips and nailing them down six inches on center diagonal to the run of the flooring. fastening was done by hand nailing with concrete nails over constitution adhesive. This floor is still tight after twenty years.

   Edited 12/8/2007 5:45 pm ET by Gmo

   Edited 12/8/2007 5:49 pm ET by Gmo

7. 
   ted | Dec 09, 2007 04:33am | #14

   In the past I've laid down a vapor barrier, the sleepers then the plywood subfloor.
   On the last project I did, a kitchen remodel, I used a dimpled plastic membrane product called Delta FL in lieu of sleepers. The manufacturer says it has an R3 insulative value. It went down real quick. I used Tapcons on 24" centers to secure the plywood through the membrane and to the concrete. The floor is really comfortable and fully supported across the entire surface.