@@ SLIDER LEAK in stucco
We have a work order for a slider that leaks. It open onto a second floor deck area. The wall material is stucco, no metal head flashing. Another company’s crew came out and set a pan this summer.
Owner says it leaked since they fixed it – all along the top of the door and down one side. He is an old Pella guy so he knows about flashing details, but he was not there when they did it so we don’t know the details of the flashing.
Took a look from the outside today. The installation looks clean. Nothing catches the eye. Stucco texture looks so good that I wonder if they disturbed it. Pulled the door without breaking it back?
The deck has exposed (rot) wood beams that are buried in the stucco (no ledger) and one above the door has an area of concern. Dark gap, caulk failure. Possible cause of leak. I could play a hose on that area and see what happens.
Before I start breaking stucco back and reflashing, I’d like some Breaktime input.
BTW – Boss says lime in stucco reacts with paper flashing and the flashing goes away. Did a job in spring where there was no longer anything left but the strings and rot and termites.
What is a good peel n stick flashing product for stucco?
The ToolBear
“Never met a man who couldn’t teach me something.” Anon.
Replies
bump
when in doubt add garlic
face it yur gonna have to bust the stucco..
Vicor is compatible..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Gonna have to bust stucco, but perhaps not much. Back up there today, via ladder, over the balconey railing.
They had broken the stucco back - 12, 8, 6". Up close and in the right light, you can see the transition. Nice job, which I could match texture as well as they. Good paint match. Clean, tight-looking job. Nothing to catch the eye.
However, there are decorative termite bait beams overhead that mount on beam hangers in the stucco. We have told them they need to flash each and every one. NFW. OK, we'll make money on the beamectomies. If they really let it go, we can upgrade to $2,000 wallectomies for rot and (gasp!) mold.
The one that caught my eye in the photos (dark crevice) had 3/16 gap on the top, another on right side, and enough brown cubical rot in the butt end that I could slide a 3" awl to the hilt, either side.
Could this be the cause of water getting in? Probably more so than the slider job. This whole rabbit warren has that beam detail. We love it. $$$$$. Have pix of another deck where the beams were a forest of fungus conks.
Problem is, if it has been making naughty with the sheathing inside the stucco, we could have a big repair. Not willing to open this tomorrow, find lots of bad things and have things open for the weekend (which will bring rain). Monday. Have no weekend looming if it's nasty.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
was the stucco opened up before??? repair or remodel???
or is it a control seam you were looking at.. look here for a water let..
if it's a blend.. make it a control joint.. and work down...
you can just about take it to the bank that you found a prime water entry..
so post the pics..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
@@ was the stucco opened up before??? repair or remodel???
Tenant says that they (not our firm) pulled it in the summer for a pan flashing. Something must have been wrong for them to do that, but he commented that after the pan job, it started leaking. ???
Posted a pix here (100 some kb) of the rotted beam with gap.
This one is a species of brown cubical rot. One over two has insect frass and galleries in the top face.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
suspect that you haven't much of or any at all in the lines of flashing...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
WTB the sheathing is OSB and toast...
don't furget to mail the consultation check..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
@@ WTB the sheathing is OSB and toast...
I hope not. If it's major, we need a change order. I am rather hoping to chisel out the stucco round the beam and find the insides neat and clean, not black mold and mouldering OSB or ply.
Have not opened any wall in this complex yet, so we shall see what they did where you can't see what they did.
At least most of the place is stucco. We have one in Placentia that is Rot Made Manifest. Sided in wood. Would have been really smart to use a Hardie product in lieu of crapwood siding. Great caverns of rot on the water tables, etc. The decks are cantilevered out and the rot gets into those and heads inside.
I think they supported the column for the corner of the 2d floor porch on the framing for the 1st floor porch. I know they have post-in-dirt on those porches. Is it a bad sign when the sheathing on the side of the porch points down about 15 dgs.?
However, they don't want to spend any serious money on maintenance. Someday it will fall down.
Flashing is for sissies. The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
Did they just pull the frame out and install the new slider as a block unit? Did they cut the new unit in with a diamond blade and hack any flashing ,etc? I 'm wondering , because of the lack of new to old stucco transition and the small 3/16 caulked gap . If they chipped back the stucco and flashed properly why would they need to caulk around the perimiter at all? And as far as any wood embedded in the stucco, thats just a prob. waiting to happen . Especially if their is no bituthane type membrane underneath the stucco. ( To self seal around the fasteners in ledgers or other ) Also , is the pan installed correctly? Is the roof a problem and the water is traveling to that area? If there is any casing around the door ,you can easily pop it off and take a look around the R.O gap (if any) Pull out any insulation and look for tell tale signs.
" The only dumb question is the one you don't ask..."
@@ Did they just pull the frame out and install the new slider as a block unit? Did they cut the new unit in with a diamond blade and hack any flashing ,etc? I 'm wondering , because of the lack of new to old stucco transition and the small 3/16 caulked gap . If they chipped back the stucco and flashed properly why would they need to caulk around the perimiter at all?
All good questions, to which I have no good answers. Are you looking at an early photo? I saw transitions at 12, 8 and 6" round when I got up close.
As the leak is along the top inside, I suspect a source higher yet. Of course, they could have buggered the flashing detail. Rather common mistake.
No details on who did what and why. I do know Californians have a reliance on caulk vs. metal flashing and traditional details which, IMO, is quite misplaced. I have yet to encounter any backer rod on a job unless I brought it. (Try to find the small sizes. Whitecap - 2" to 3/8. I need 3/8 - 3/16.) Combine that with a tendancy to buy the 1.98 caulk vs. the Good $tuff and there is work for us down the road.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
TB,
"decorative termite bait beams" - LOL
Water test the area prior to stucco removal....you will probably be able to re-create the leak (easily, if close to the top of slider) and pin point the ingress. If not, at least you'll have a "water trail" to follow once the stucco is removed. I spend most of my winters chasing these.
BTW, thanks to all those who design/build un-flashed/exposed beams and other poor envelope details that lead to $10,000 "wallectomies".....an endless source of income!!(15 yrs and no end in sight)
Good luck
TN
@@ Water test the area prior to stucco removal....you will probably be able to re-create the leak (easily, if close to the top of slider) and pin point the ingress. If not, at least you'll have a "water trail" to follow once the stucco is removed. I spend most of my winters chasing these.
Have not been inside. No one home. Thus reluctant to water test.
Do you get good results with this - and how do you do it. I find on boats that you can use a fire hose and get nothing, but a ten minute shower will have that leak running good.
Boss sez this is a working class neighborhood. Of course. Let's see: three worker's Beamers, two Lexus, assorted Mercedes, SUVs on the street. Well, he didn't say what they work at. I don't think it's landscaping. Does empty out by 0900. Parking for me. We have a contact with an HOA in Tustin, CA that is much more working class. The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
TB,
Do you get good results with this - and how do you do it. I find on boats that you can use a fire hose and get nothing, but a ten minute shower will have that leak running good.
Good results?.....definitely....some take forever to leak but they will. I've had 3 of these in the last 2 weeks. Alum. windows in 3 story stucco low-rise/condo w/ no overhangs = at least 2 complete "wallectomies" (7-8 weeks work)
A two person venture with inside access for sure. Resist the urge to "fire hose", just heavy rain simulation, gradually from the bottom up .... fire hosing can make things leak that don't. Once it starts to leak, stop the water wait for the drip to stop...then re-water the last area tested. This will narrow down the ingress point. Hope this helps
"Flashing is for sissies" .....Can I use this on my business cards?
BTW, the "pictures" u refer to..where are they?
TN
"BTW, thanks to all those who design/build un-flashed/exposed beams and other poor envelope details that lead to $10,000 "wallectomies".....an endless source of income!!(15 yrs and no end in sight)"I say 'here here!'I just got done with this very job. Door company came in to replace a leaking unit on a 10 year old house (this is 4 years ago so the house at that time was only 6), no pan, no flashing, all caulk, no overhang, just a straight flat exposure. Full brick tied to osb, osb shot, sill shot, part of the ledger shot,ends of joists blackened but still good, subfloor inside shot....a nightmare. All because of a little flashing not there, and the details. This is a door company who install all kinds of exterior door. Former owners kept slathering clear silicone on the outside "every year" they proudly claimed. Well to do neighborhood, developer is now out of business because of rapant leaks of this sort in every one of the houses. I used to rail at the Gods about this but have learned since to button my very grateful lips.Thank you wood, thank you water, and most of all I thank all the schwoogie hacks and Harvey Homeowners out there which there seem to be plenty of. Keep it coming.By the way, I use the hosing method all the time, starting from the bottom and working my way up about 2' for each session. Works well.
@@ By the way, I use the hosing method all the time, starting from the bottom and working my way up about 2' for each session. Works well.
Do you use a spray, full stream, other pattern?
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
Here is another try at posting a picture. About 150 kb.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
give it another shot...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
For some reason, these pix won't post. ???? The one of my drill on another thread worked fine.
Here goes nothing.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.