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I own and use a non sliding compound miter saw. I have had the opportunity to use Hitachi’s 8 1/4 sliding compound model. The main difference that I have noticed is that once the blade in the non sliding saw loses a little edge from use , the blade wants to veer in the direction of the compound cut, thus effecting the bevel angle. (Especially with 12″ blades). Using a sliding saw allows you to cross cut that compound miter thus eliminating “blade veering”. Given that the amount of bevel inaccuracy is usually minor, when pursuing fine joinery in moulding every 1/4 degree can make a difference.
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I own and use a non sliding compound miter saw. I have had the opportunity to use Hitachi's 8 1/4 sliding compound model. The main difference that I have noticed is that once the blade in the non sliding saw loses a little edge from use , the blade wants to veer in the direction of the compound cut, thus effecting the bevel angle. (Especially with 12" blades). Using a sliding saw allows you to cross cut that compound miter thus eliminating "blade veering". Given that the amount of bevel inaccuracy is usually minor, when pursuing fine joinery in moulding every 1/4 degree can make a difference.
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I just ordered a sliding compound miter from tool crib I am doing a remodel where the home owner bought some 5" baseboard there is no reasonable way to cut it without one.Also I had a job trimming a Gymnasium with 3 oak bands out of 1x6 and 1x3 .The 1x6 had to be beveled at all joints
The faces at the joints didn't always match perfect more than not with the sliding compound miter saw the company I worked for at the time suplied I was able to adjust each cut to fit perfect
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Thanks for the response Rick. Did you really need a sliding model? Most regular fixed head coumpound miter saws will cut 1x6 at 90 degrees and several will cut 1x6 bevel 45 X miter 45.
Which model did you choose? How much was it?
Thanks,
Mike
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Hi mike I have had a hitichi 8 1/4" slide since 1991 and it is still working great. I do a lot of stairs and they can't be beat for cutting the treads. like Mark said you don't always use it but when you need it, its there. Rick
*Mike in answer to your question 1.Did I realy need a slidind model .Probably not.I guess I thought since I needed a saw that would cut more than what I have an old makita miter saw.no compounds,no bigger than a 3 1/2"piece on edge,its about ten years old and works almost as good as when I bought it.(I made a mistake in my last post.that school I did was a fixed head. Makita,sorry I am not used to that term out here.It was a 10" compound miter.)I ordered a 10"slide dual compound miter from tool crib for $499.95 free shipping.they say it will be here in 3 to 5 work days they also throw in a 4 piece quad driver set.The cheapest price localy was 600$ on sale.I like the idea of the dual compound .I have yet to use on .I also have an old delta sawbuck needs a tune up .Its old I left it out to many times. I bought it used ten or so yyears ago its a real useful tool but not real true for finish its got to much play and its a litle akward to move in and around a house .In a remodel situation
*Mike, You mentioned your upcoming review and also the one done by Ken Textor. If I may make a suggestion, please include the actual prices and not just the retail prices as Ken did in his review. When he makes his recommendations on which ones to buy, it's important to know what they are based on (ie. actual costs). For example, he lists the Dewalt DW705 as a $734 list price saw, and follows with the comment "for such a hefty price tag, the lack of accessories is surprising". Is that comment based on the $734 or the more typical $349 actual. Also, if he listed the actual as $349 and based his value assessment on that, then I could factor that in when I see that for some reason only the Home Depot stores in Atlanta sell it for $275. I have since moved and understand it's now at $299. I would have pounced on one, but I'm interested in possibly buying a sliding compound. I await your review.
*I also owned and used the Hitachi 8 1/4. It worked like a charm and was deadly accurate for 3 years. It got knocked around the truck once too many times and is a bit out of whack. I do mainly trim work and need the capacity doing shelves and casings. I also liked the smaller (cheaper to buy and re-saw) blades. I must admit that my 12" Skill is more durable, but I do not like the larger blades.
*My Hitachi 8 1/4 sliding miter saw has held up well under nine years of hard use now. After having a 12 inch non-slider also, I found the greatest advantage to the Hitachi is it's ability to line up along an odd(off the 90 degree) angle by rolling the blade along the scribe mark . Such as when fitting a tread to a skirt board. Another nice feature is the depth setting which allows you to cut a flat kerf across the width of whatever size board you need. This is very handy when ruuning base on round walls.
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Thanks for the thoughts Brad.
*Mike, you've heard all the answers... wide stock, odd angles, stair treads, taller base (mop boards), wide board floors... now try making R&Rs out of cedar clears when the local yard doesn't have a box of R&Rs for you... or you need a few for that window/door install.
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I'm interested in buying one too, but for some reasons that nobody has been talking about yet. Very often it is only convenient to mark a board on one face, versus the other, putting the board in my fixed chop saw I often have to transfer my mark around to the other side of the board. Transfering a mark equals inaccuracy. It has got to be convenient to be able to pivot over 45 degree in either direction. (I guess not all sliders even do that). The sliding increased cutting depth will definitely decrease the amount of times I have to drag long wide boards over my table saw while trying desperately to hold them in my mitre jig. Rickety rack kick back ! Yash ! I still haven't decided which brand to buy but I anticipate spending about $600. Any comments ???
*Had occasion over the past year to use a Dewalt slider and a Hitachi. I had always been fond of my old Sawbuck despite its engineering gaffes and delicacy, but the Dewalt won me over with its obvious improvements, particularly the cut "preview" for those scribed lines. The easy to use depth stop for dados, rabbets and other stopped cuts is very nice. I did find some disappointing flaws on at least that particular saw, as usual after some head scratching and wondering where I had screwed up. That nice tall fence that is so convenient for cutting big crown molding cocks toward the operator when tightened so that the included angle is less than 90. The angle quadrant, though easy to bring into square with the blade, has less than 90 between 45lL and 45R so that to make a mitered frame you have to kick the stop out of notch on one of them. Luckily, the mechanism for locking a fraction of a degree out is very nice. The Hitachi I had less time with on close interior finish but it seemed a step below in overall quality and utility- for instance- the quadrant has roof pitch engraved on it , but it is x/10 instead of x/12. I would be interested to know if anyone else has observed the problems I noted on the DeWalt or was this one just a rogue.
*At the KC wood show I had the joy of seeing and touching all of the current dual compound sliders. DeWalt, Hitachi, both Makitas. The Makita LS1013 dual compound 10" was the nicest by far. The 12" Makita was clunky along side this 10". The DeWalt had no real problems but did not have as nice of a detent lock out. Hitachi did not slide as nicely. The Makita LS1013 had the biggest table by far. Short fence though. Mail order cost is $500 for the Makita LS1013. $590 for Makita 12". DeWalt and Hitachi are $600-625.
*I have used my Hitachi 8 1/4 for 5 years and love it. Its very portable, and accurate. A friend just purchased the 10", and its just not the same. It feels very awkward, cheap, and not as durable. Its also belt driven. Another friend purchased the Makita 10". That saw is a dream! Its very tough and accurate. The two slides are verticle, unlike the Hitachi. They seem to be more substancial. I would seriously consider the 10"
*Sorry Mike, my mistake. The Makita 10" has the two slides horizontal. On the Hitachi 10", the slides are verticle. The Makita just seems better.
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I agree w/ Russell. Look at makita's 1013. It has a few minor shortcomings but I like it best of all. Esp if you want double bevel action.
I've got a dozen of them in my basement right now and if I could keeep one it would be the 1013.
Mike
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MIKE,I THOUGHT THE MAKITA 1013 WAS TO BE MY NEXT CHOISE UNTIL I WENT TO HELP A FRIEND CUT SOME CROWN MOLDING.TO MY AMASEMENT, NO DETENT (35.3) FOR THE MITER ANGLE.TOO BAD, IT'S SUCH A SMOOTH CUTTING, QUIET SAW;WITH A NICE DECK.I THINK I'LL JUST GET ANOTHER 1011-MINE HAS GOTTEN SO NOISY SINCE I CHANGED THE BRUSHES.GREGG
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Gregg,
You're right. The 1013's got no detents ore even scale marks. We're calling Makita to find out what was up with that obvious ommission.
Detents or not I'd still go for the 1013. Better action, Better range. Double bevel. Nice controls......
Just scratch in 35.3 degrees. Detents can have a downside if you need a 1/2 degree outside one. Especially on the 1011 which has no detent override.
Mike
*Is the Makita to which you refer the 1011 or 1013?The 1013 has the motor on a 45 degree angle and it double bevels. The 1011 only bevels left.Just curious,Mike
*Mike, I run a trim business and have used a few brands of saws. We have to cut everything from shelving to sceen mould and have found certain saws ( brands and types, both) do certain things better. Like Mr. Natural sez," get the right tool for the job!" Right now we're using a 12" DeWalt compound (sturdy, pretty accurate, and cheap), a 10" Delta sliding compound miter (might be usefull to a DIYer, but not at all accurate, good for repetitive blocking, painted trim), a 10" Bosch SCM ( ok, not machined very well, but pricey nonetheless) and the 12" Makita 1011 sliding dually. The saw that does it all. I'm going to have to replace all but the Dewalt with more Makitas, because that's where every one of the crew lines up when there's a critical cut to be made. It's worth the extra $100 to me to have a 15 amp motor (Something no one has mentioned yet). I think we get a safer compound cut without binding on wide cupped 5/4 hardwood. One of my clients uses a lot of clear finished oak and/or maple beam work that ends in compound angled points. Time saved by not having to flip boards around and sneak up on cuts, paid for the saw within one of his jobs. Of course, it took a couple more jobs ddown the road, before my guys stopped drooling over the cuts in a sensual sort of amazement Hey, bigger is not always better, but being prepared for anything in this business, is. With the 12" Makita, it's like you're an electric boyscout.(Who's writing this review?)
*Thanks J. Holland for your reply.Is your 12" Makita the 1211?? The 1011 is kind of chincy. Before you buy another check out the Makita 1013. Very nice but it has no detents for quick crown.To answer your question about who's writting the review - tis I And my writing associate Rick Arnold.I've got a dozen saws in my basement right now. Been using them on jobsites since October. I've loaned some out to other builders I know for their input too.I finished the draft last weekend and Rick is doing his thing. He's in charge of calling all the manufacturers and fact checking and getting the inside scoop in any new tools or redesigns to look out for. And to find out if some mfg. realize their saws suck. He'll probably be diplomatic about it.I'd like to have used the saws for several years to see how they last. With only 3 months to test 12 we can only comment on how they work when new.I think the review will be in the late summer FHB; #125 or #126.Mike
*Mike, It is a 1211. I did check out the 1013, and felt it could have used a couple of extra amps for what I do. Could be a good third saw, though. As far as a need for quick crown detents, where do you get quick crown? We find those detents only get in the way of zeroing in on the true bed cuts.
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Mike,Agreed the 1013 is a wonderful beast.The job that brought all this discussion about was anything but average.Not one cut was 30 degree bevel,35.3 degree miter.That in it self was OK. I love a challenge,but leaning over the top of the 1013 to change the bevel angle at each and every transition could possibly make me scream.While i'm on this bitch;how about a blower to get the dust off the miter guage while i'm cutting this Fipon(high density foam crown) with dust like beach sand.Thanks,Gregg (sorry, just dreaming)
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You're right , the detents are a problem if you want to hone in on 1/2 degree off. Just give me 0, 45 and a good scale I can scratch on.
I'd have to disagree with you on the 1013's amps though. The 12" runs at 4000 rpm w/ 15 amps and the 1013 runs 3700 at 13. Then consider the blade diameter. My mechanical engineer father could do the calculations to prove that you'll get the same or more 'power' out of the 1013 but he's in FLA for the winter. Don't be fooled by the amps; there are othe rfactors at play.
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I am a carpenter in the movie business. I work for a lot of different Construction Coordinators. Over the years almost every type of mitre saw and chop saw has shownup on the jobs. The best one I have used is the Dewalt 12" Sliding Compound Mitre Saw. To me this unit has the most versatility and is the easiest to handle. The trigger grip is designed so you don't have to twist your wrist to use it. The bevel goes both ways and is easy to lock and unlock. The quick release mitre lock is right where I like it. It has no problem with 2x12s or any other heavy material i.e. MDF, plastics, cardboard, etc.
If the price tag is too great then stick to a cheaper model or use your skillsaw. For production where literally 200 people have use of the equipment this saw outshines the rest.
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Mike, I hope you do get some engineer to prove that a 10" blade spinning at 3700RPM pushed by 13 amps is going to have more "power" than a 12" blade spinning at 4000RPM with 15 available amps when both are, say, going through a 5/4 x 10" piece of white oak.
And by the way, today I trimmed the jambs of two pre-hung doors for 6 1/2" walls. Doors still in the jambs, and with casing on one side, too. 7 1/4" total under the blade. Had to cut them in a pass from each side, But they came out quite neatly. Try that on anything other than the DeWalt or Makita 12" duallys. The width of cut is not the only factor at play here, either.
For my money, if I could only have one saw, and was going to have to pay between 500 and 650 bucks, I want the most versatile. That's either the 12" Makita or DeWalt Compound slider.
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Dear Mike,
Don't overlook the Hitachi 10". While the Dewalt is more
convenient to operate at certain "reverse" angles, the
Hitachi is accurate and well machiened. Yes the handle
has too much plastic, but the motor and slider remain
tight and smooth after hard use. I appreciated the comment about wanting
to review the saws after 3 years. From what I have observed,
the Mikata and Hitachi saws, while sometimes lacking the
certain innovative features of the Dewalt, hold up much better
through time.
*Attention Framers-What is the verdict on the new Dewalt 7 1/4 framing saw (DW378G)?Better than the Mag 77? Why or why not?Michael Schultz
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I agree that the amps are not the whole story. Here is my 'back of the envelope' take on this:
Larger blades diameters (2*r) require more torque (T), which goes like the amps, for the same 'power' (force applied by each tooth on the wood) (f):
T=r*f so f=T/r
f(10")/f(12") = (13/5)/(15/6) = 1.04
So at the same rpms and blade tooth count, the 10" applies 4% more force at the tooth than the 12". Because the 12" is at a higher rpm, and probably has more teeth/revolution, it requires even more torque than the 10" so this 'power' ratio will be even higher in favor of the 10" 13a model. This is not to say that the 12" will cut slower than the 10" - it will actually cut faster (more rpm and teeth/revolution) IF the motor is not near it's max torque (thin or soft wood). But when pushed to it's torque limit (motor speed begins to slow), the 10" will cut heavier/thicker wood before it reaches the torque limit (That's what I think of as 'power').
Now here is a suggestion for you Mike. Many of us judge power by the current draw, in amps. This will obviously vary depending on the motor's load. It would be great in your review if you could measure the current for each saw and report it's maximum, rather than cite the manufacturer's specs. It can be easily measured with an inexpensive VOM in current mode and in series. Email me if you need more info on this.
I am skeptical of some of the claims made by the maufacturers, the most egregious case is the 'peak horsepower' reported on wet/dry vacs! (2.5 hp from a motor 10% the size of my tablesaws 1.5 hp moptor???)
Of course the best approach would be to measure torque with some type of dynamometer, similar to that used to confirm PTO hp on tractors. But for all that effort, you will probably learn more by simply observing the tool's response to cutting thick oak...
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I've been using sliders ever since the first Hitachi's hit the market,(it's still my saw of choice).The great thing about them is that they do everything a fixed chopsaw does just as well and when you want to cut siding, shelving, and any other wide stock that needs to be just so that capability is there. The extra few hundred that you pay for such versatility is money well spent.
*Tom, I've put a lot of hours on Hitachi's and find that every several years they need to be taken apart, cleaned and reassembled. This usually puts them "back in whack". Unless the cast aluminum parts have been permanently disfigured, such a rebuild might keep an old one going at least for framing and siding.
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PS. the makita 1211 miters to 60 degrees. BB
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I used my DeWalt 12" sliding compound miter saw for the first time today. I'm a DIY'er, used to using power hand tools. Santa was very good to me this year.
I'm building storage shelves into a walk-in closet and ended up using the entire 12" slide on my first project. Shelf boards are 24" wide so I was able to cut them to size by flipping the board once.
I am now thoroughly spoiled and have big project plans for the summer - gazebo and outdoor furniture. I LOVE this tool!
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What do you use your sliding compound miter saw for that a fixed head compound miter saw like those reviewed by Ken Taxor in FHB 119 can't do?
The slide feature gives you at least twice the cross cut range but when is it useful?
How often do you need that capacity?
I'm reviewing a dozen for an upcoming FHB. I like mine but find I rarely use the full 12" at 90 degree range. Wondering why other slider owners can't live without them.
TIA
Mike
*Mike,I've had the Makita LS1011 since it first came out ( about 8 years now ). I don't use the full width cut a lot but when you need it , it certainly comes in handy.Mainly use it for cutting bevels and plumbs on extra wide fascias.Also for shelving I make one cut and flip the board to finish the cut through. Use it for ripping points on stakes ( very cautiously )as well.Mark
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Patrick,
Thanks. Your response is simple, concise and I think the best reason for choosing a slider rather than a fixed machine.
Mike