sliding patio door installation
woodchuckwannabe
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
I have been contracted to install a sliding patio door where a window is. The opening will be on a second story floor to a deck. The house is brick clad. My biggest concern is, once I have opened the wall, what prep work do I need to do for the sill? Should I open the brick lower than the floor level and place a PT board on the brick and to the level of the floor?
This is a new type of project for me and any help and advice will be most appreciated. If anyone knows where I can get detailed instructions Please point me toward it. I have emailed the manufacturers and they all point to their std. installation instructions and provide little or no instruction for installing in an existing brick wall, much less a 2nd story floor.
Replies
wood,
What kind of sill is in place now at the window opening? I ask because if a sandstone sill, you can remove it carefully and use that as the sill to cap the brick and set the threshold on.
If you go here http://quittintime.infopop.cc/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Const&Number=2169&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
you will find an installation that you might be able to pick out some tips.
I used mounting clips supplied by the door manufacturer to anchor the unit to the wood framing. The homowner wanted brick returns on the opening, not brick mould. The clips enabled solid connection with no fin or brickmould.
I had to box out the joists to the height of the reset stone sill. I then fabricated a flashing pan to place on that, setting the unit on top.
Best of luck.
View Image
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Thanks for the info. The Opening is coming off the second story floor, onto an elevated deck. Right now there is a window where the door is. I will need to open the wall for the slider. I'm hoping I won't need to replace the header, but I may be about 1 1/2" too marrow for a std. 5' slider. Once I remove the window and cripples, I will remove the brick exterior and that's where my thinking is getting stuck.I haven't yet gone to the link you gave, but I will check it out as soon as I post this.Thanks again!
Was the stone sill you removed from the window the same width as the new slider that you installed? I'm assuming that it was because if it supports the new threshold then the two widths, old window and new slider, were the same ...correct? How much did you have to box the floor joists and how did you flash the threshold and sill?
The sill and window brick opening were "exactly" the same and these were the same as the door unit size plus 2 caulk joints.
Clean Living.
I fabbed a sill liner pan out of a vicor (bituthane-Ice/water sheild type product)-peel and stick, flexible - able to run up the sides and back of the opening, then counter flashed on the framing opening. You can buy, have fabbed or even bend and make up yourself a copper pan (soldered corners), galv. , or even aluminum. The idea is to capture any entering water and keeping it from getting to the floor/framing.
The blocks I used were to run a continuous solid band for the door threshold to sit on. The house was balloon framed so I closed up all the joist cavities. I then layed a plywood subfloor to matchup with the top of the stone sill. Had to move some electric, install insulation, not bad. Hardest part was getting that 9' thing up there.
I cut the brick with a circular saw or an angle grinder with a diamond segmented blade. Used a vac to capture the dust, cut it dry. The brick were solids and a good cut made it possible to not have to tooth out the cuts and lay returns. I've done that b/4 and it's not the easiest job for a non mason. The less I put mortar around brick the better I like it. This cut edge, with "grinding" the remaining returns ended up looking pretty clean. Otherwise, the return is the professional way to go.
Best of luck.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Yea...I saw the clean verticle saw cut in the pics. Looks like the wall was solid brick and not just a veneer. Out here, California, brick houses don't exist and it's not cause the wolf huffed and buffed and blew the house down either. Since I don't have any experience with it, I have a hard time imagining how you would get a good water tight closer with solid brick walls and I don't quite understand how you protect wood interior from moisture infiltration through the brick etc. etc. I know exactly how the door clips into the interior studs as you show but I wish I could take a look at how you waterproof the combination outer brick wall, new door/window and interior wood structure. Your end product looked like a nice job and I noticed you keep a fairly clean job site too. We had some LEGACY brick buildings that were death traps in the earthquake of 89, they don't seem to make it beyond a couple of decades before another earthquake makes them unsafe again. Most solid brick buildings that are still around, there might be a half dozen or so in every city, have to go through some serious retrofit to make safe and in the end it's cheaper just to tear it down and rebuild with something else. We have serious problems keeping even thin brick veneer on the sides of the building without it coming loose and having the whole wall come crashing down with one good 5 second shake.
While the brick were solid (no holes), it was a veneer.
On sealing the replacement window or door. I know of no way to flash the unit into the opening other than a bottom pan. Fin install and vicor rap over fin are not possible behind an already finished brick opening. I rely on Urethane caulk to seal the opening. While not the preferred method of lasting weatherseal, done right I have had no problem for many years using this method. Sizing the unit properly, use of backer rod, and caulking to clean surfaces are the keys to a good job. If you make the unit smaller by reframing the wood opening and can use fin and properly seal that, you still have the caulk detail on any finish returns to the brick, you install.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Personally, I like to keep the deck level about 3" min below an exterior opening for rain/ snow issues etc.
I am assuming the patio door will be inset into the brick opening? Otherwise there will be water entering above the door.
How do you plan on dealing with the exposed cut lines at the edge of the removed brick?
Concrete sill covered with flashing.
Bricklayer to repair cutlines.
Gord
I am planning to cut out the cut brick and repoint. Thanks for bringing up the issues though. This is a first with this tyoe of project, I still fairly new in the business, so any and all advice is helpful!
Would you consider getting someone with more experience to lead you thru this? This job would be challenging if you were on the ground floor and you're on the second floor.
Is the balcony strong enough to actually use? If it's outside of a window, it may be more ornamental than functional. It might be a good idea to find out how it's framed and attached to the house.
If you do go ahead with this, see if you can order a custom door that will fit the existing rough opening. That may be less expensive than re-framing to accomodate a longer header.
I didn't get a chance to reply yesterday because I was on the road all day (bringing some nice weather from NC up to OH), Thankfully the opening goes to an elevated deck and not a balcony. I am going to check for someone in the Charlotte area that may have some experience, but I want to have a good idea of what I'm doing before I get started. The one good thing about being nervous about trying something new is I usually try and get all the advice I can before starting!
I think you have a handle on it. You're going to be alot more prepared for the next one and realize its not that difficult once you get started.Gord
I have a related question. I'm looking to replace an existing patio door that has a width of 6' 6". The only replacement doors I can find are for a rough opening of 72 inches. Does anyone know of a manufacturer that sells a 78" wide door.
I don't know of a manu. of stock doors that size. But, if you can find a quality vinyl/fibreglass replacement window co. they should offer a custom sized unit.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time