I need some ideas for updating a small bathroom. The size of the bathroom is 79″x63″. The customer wants to install a whirlpool tub,pedestal sink and a toilet. It is 79″ from the entry door to the exterior wall. So I was looking for some suggestions on either space saving fixtures or orientation of the fixtures. There is also noroom to expand nor does the customer have the desire to expand. Any help would be appreciated. I have hopefully attached the file correctly so you can see what I am talking about.
Thanks
Mark Barnhart
” If there is one secret of success, it lies in the ability to see the other persons point of view as well as your own”-Henry Ford
Replies
Not like possible to satisfy him even with a pocket door and I don't like them in bathrooms. Not good for privacy or locking. You client might as well ask you to fit a few hundred dollar bills into his wallet. When clients ask for the impossible, it's time for re-education or a dear john letter.
Another thing you haven't adressed is access for plumbing runs. Is this over a crawl space and what kind of joists on what layout?
Excellence is its own reward!
Ilike your solution for the btrm, I'm also intereted in the drawing/drafting programs people are using," Would you mind teling me which program you use? So far the drawing programs on my p.c have not leant themselves to sacle drawings etc..
patrick of M
The plumbing runs will be easy to access via the basement, it's not finished. The way he hopes to have it laid out is first thing when you walk in is a Ped sink then the toilet then bathtub to keep all fixtures to one wall. I did some research on low profile narrow toilets as well as 20" ped sinks and it looks like it will all fit with a 32" whirlpool tub( I convinced him to not install with a deck just stand alone, no space) So I hope that will satisfy him. I didn't know if there was another manufacturer that made a narrower toilet than the one I found(21"w)
I dont know though it seems pretty tight. But they have their hearts set on it. We'll see.
p.s. I wish i could give them a dear john but I have already received 4 referrals from them, hope to keep them happy and referring to me and not someone else.Mark Barnhart
" If there is one secret of success, it lies in the ability to see the other persons point of view as well as your own"-Henry Ford
Guess what?
A 32" is barely a tub. A manufacturer might call it a whirlpool but it's too small to really do more than have a couple jets without the whirlpool experience. What I inserted is 36" W.
You need to devote 36" to the toilet space. Anything less is calling for complaints and inconvenience. It can overlap a little with the pedestal space, I suppose but not that much. I've seen toilets given as little as 29" but you have to be very skinny and back in. Then there's no elbow room or place to put the paper roll.
I pedestal sink can be as small as 19" but a oerson is still 22" or more wide so you have to allow that much space.
Suppose 32" toilet space, 32" tub space, that only leaves 15" for the sink with no elbow room for the people to use it. These fixtures will not go on one wall and have people be able to use them. Scale drawings will convince them. I use Softplan for mine.
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Excellence is its own reward!
At 6'3" and 225 lbs., a 30" head space has worked for me in every house we've ever lived in. Maybe I have an unusually narrow backside. Should I attach a photo for your judgement?
You "crack" me up!
.
Excellence is its own reward!
Two other thoughts-
Some building codes call for 18" from toilet center to side wall, or so my plumber tells me.
It is possible that every one of these fixtures will waste into a floor joist, requiring a lot of reframing of the floor. Check this out if you are bidding the job.
.
Excellence is its own reward!
How much did the softplan cost you?
I hope to convince them to turn their other bathroom into the one containing the whirlpool and designate this one as a 3/4 bath. Hey maybe I'll get a two for one huh?
Thanks for the postsMark Barnhart
" If there is one secret of success, it lies in the ability to see the other persons point of view as well as your own"-Henry Ford
http://softplan.com/
I must have a couple grand or so into it. It's been a long time and one upgrade. Check out the site for current costs and an intro to the program. SP lite used to go for about 750 bucks. I've got the whole package.
There are other htreads here you could find with advanced search using CAD, Design, or drawing as search keywords.
Vectorworks,
Softplan,
Chief architect
3D Home Architect
ACAD
TurboCAD
would also produce hits.
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 1/31/2003 8:06:41 PM ET by piffin
Believe it or not, there is a simple pocket door lock that is convenient and secure. It's called a "jamb lock." Like most interior privacy latches, it can be opened from the opposite side. Mortise tolerances are pretty close, but otherwise they install easily.
Found them a Brass Menagerie in New Orleans while on a trip. Haven't seen them anywhere else though.
While I enjoy laying out small baths with a maximum of features & storage, that seems an impossible order
For pocket doors, Imes makes a jamb lock, and two of my baths have pocket doors with these. Go look at it at the Imes site. Installs with a little inconspicuous grommet pressfit to a drilled thru hole, grommet face to the hall side, so someone can run a little piece of rigid wire in and open it when locked. I guess that is for when you slip on your tub and knock yourself out when your head hits the pedestal sink.
A nice little pedestal lav for a small bath is the Kohler "Parigi." It is the smallest I have seen from anybody, a real space saver.
A corner toilet, if it works, gives room and a feeling of a much bigger room.__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
There are a number of hardweare manufacturers who provide locking mechanisms that work acceptably, amoung them Baldwin, Ives, and Stanley. Thanks for adding your s to the list.
I was not refering to the hardware tho' when I mentioned lack of privacy. It is in the nature of a pocket door that there is not a tight seal or even near tight on sides and bottom. There are things on edoes in there that many people do not want leaking out around the door. Various sounds accompnay this activity. Some are sounds of merriement while others will challenge the old farm bull to do battle. These sounds can penetrate the rest of the house via the gaps surronding the door, dragging anti-pheremones behind them.
Pssst, Please keep this quite or the environmentalists will be putting bathroom pocket doors on their save list and marching on the tracks..
Excellence is its own reward!
>> ... there is not a tight seal or even near tight on sides and bottom.
How tight a seal do you usually get at the bottom of swinging doors? Most bathroom doors I've seen had something like a 10 square inch opening across the bottom, and offered only modest sound attenuation.
Pocket doors are only space savers in certain situations. You still need the space that the regular door swings into in order to walk into the room.
These are all good ideas but...
How about a corner SINK!
This way everything could be on one wall and you could have either a pocket or swing door. I like the swing door because you won't loose any interior space due to the thickness of a pocket door wall. Every inch counts.
I happened to be cleaning up this morning and came across a Hastings Bath Collection Catologue http://www.hastingstilebath.com which has some interesting interpretations of pedestal sinks. Take a look. Most are pricey but it may give you some ideas. It depends on how modern they want to go.
Go for the wider and deepest tub .
Hope this helps. F.
Dunc, I do a lot with thresholds at door opennings. Also, the swing door seats to the door stop but the pocket door has at least 1/4" of space to stops, and lets sound and air move across the top of it too.
ALL
My pocket doors are all in typical 2x4 doors.
With a tight layout, you not only need the swing space that you walk through but also need to have spce to put your body once you get into the room in order to be able to close it.
Using an outswing door is an option but I question how safe it would be if it opens into a plain narrow hall.
.
Excellence is its own reward!
Many is the pocket door that I've added "stops" to on the strike side of the jamb. They don't really stop anything, but by placing them on both inside and outside of the door, it (the door) seats into a 3/8" deep dado-like slot, taking care of all those unspeakable issues you so eloquently describe.
I use those stops (guides) at both sides of the openning but I still place them set back. If I make them for a 1-3/8" door set at a close 1-1/2", any warp in the door makes it impossible to close without a fight, so I keep them back on each side. On the pocket side, you don't want the door rubbing, so guides are mounted at the floor with the gap wide on up to the header and track at top. air and sound leak around through that pocket space.
Not trying to argue, just elaborating on why I think people feel less private behind a pocket door. Most of the ones I have use for bathrooms are in master bedroom suites, etc and not immediately available to visitors where this might be an issue..
Excellence is its own reward!
i don't know about sanitary fittings in the US but i built a new bathroom in our huse last year that was 6' square. we got a huge showerlux bath (6'*2'8") and a wall hung basin and corner toilet.
the trick is to plan everything. even when we planned itr on paper it didn't look like it was going to work.
but its great.
aleks
I was on a submarine once, and the officers' head had a sink basin that folded up into the bulkhead. Maybe you could find something similar in the yacht building business.
-- J.S.
OK, I played with this some more. The smallest reasonable whirlpool tub I could find is the Jason 55, and it basically ain't gonna fit. Here's how it looks:
-- J.S.
Just to interject a point here, some jurisdictions are recommending out-opening doors as a safety feature.
Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
The other...proper application of risk.
Edited 2/4/2003 3:32:12 PM ET by rez
Why don't we also park the car and boat in here too?
Come on now people we are talking about a space 6 and a half feet by 5 feet for a whirlpool, sink and toilet? Pardon me while I reach for the toilet paper.
What about code for electrical outlets? How are all those gonna layout? Isn't it something like no outlet with X number of feet or inches from the middle of the tub?
DW
Our emails must have been crossed. I agree the bathroom size is much too small for what they want to put into it. Kind of like 10 lbs of _ _ _ _ in a 5 lb bag.
Come on guys, its simple! You will be sitting down using the tub and toilet both so head room is not a real issue here. Frame up a split level and STACK EM! Be sure and put the toilet on top so you can ascend to the throne. This is going to be a great space when it's finished!
Alternatively, talk him out of the whirlpool tub and into a bidet. The jet isn't quite as strong but he'll feel like he's had a meaningful water experience.
Kevin Halliburton