Anybody know how to keep the smoke in electric motors, and other electrical things?
I’ve noticed that when an electric motor is overloaded, and all the smoke leaks out, the motor no longer works. This also appears to be the case with things like ohm meters hooked up to 220 volts when they are set to “continuity, battery chargers when the leads are clamped together, etc.
Is it possible to replace the smoke in these things?
Any input on this matter would be appreciated.
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Replies
Boss:
Although I haven't tried it, I would think you could recharge the smoke in electrical components by placing the offending items in a large, smoky fire. Give it a shot and let us know if this is the key to rejuvenating de-smoked motors and meters.
=====Zippy=====
Boss
It is impossible to put the smoke back in, but here is a guanteed way to keep it in.
Get enough stainless steel to make a box big enough to hold the device.
weld up the 4 side and the bottom. The put the device in and weld the top. All the welds have to gas tight and there can be no holes in the box.
If I weld my tablesaw up in a box, how could I use it?
Wait a minute here - I think I'm catching on - Are you trying to tell me something ???
Yesterday I was arrested for scalping low numbers at the deli. I sold a #3 for 20 bucks.
I can't help you once they've cooked. But I'm a firm believer in prevention. Down here in Virginia, we just heat up some vinyl siding scraps from the McMansions with a propane torch and trowel it over the openings of tool motors. Run 'em 'til they croak but I promise they'll never smoke!
Al
Boss hog, Boss hog, Boss hog
I can't believe that someone else thinks the same way I do. I keep trying to tell the "Spark farmers" avionics/electricians at work (I work for one of the airlines in Canada)( can you guess?) that what they learned in trade school was all bullsh*t. That there is no such thing as electrons, that it all works with smoke. Keep the smoke in and all is well, let the smoke out and nothing works.
I once sent a unit (computer, one of many on the airplane) to the shop with the unserviceable tag saying "unit unserviceable please reinstall smoke". Those guys have no sense of humour. They actually wanted to know exactly what happened. I had to explain that we turned on the power and POOF the smoke came out and it didn't work.
Along this line is that bananas help with your eye sight. They make your arms longer. Have you ever seen a monkey with short arms? I rest my case!!!!!
There is a special mantra known only to followers
of an obscure Eastern cult. It was taught to me
in my youth by a wise, gray-bearded carpenter wearing
a tie-dyed Grateful Dead T-shirt. This mantra can
often force the smoke back inside. It goes "Ommmmm,
ommmmm, you worthless piece of ****, **** me over one
more time and I'll tie a rope and drag you 20 miles
behind my pickup truck, ommmmm, ommmmmm." Now you know
the secret of the ages. Use it wisely. I also find it
helpful to save all the smoke people try to blow up my
***. I save it in a big plastic bag. Sometimes you can
just put the broken item in this bag and have a friendly
dozer operator drive over it a few times to force the
smoke back inside. If that does not work, at least the
crunching noises are satisfying.
Also, there is a little-known law of physics called
"telepathic associative functionality". In atomic
physics, there is something called The Pauli Exclusion
Principle. No two electrons in an atom can have the same
exact state. This implies that somehow electrons can
communicate at a distance so they can adjust their state.
The macroscopic extension of this primnciple gives rise
to the law of associative functionality. If you have
an identical working spare item in your truck, the other
one will never break. If you have no spare, or the other
one in your truck is broken, the one you're using will break.
Guaranteed every time. Its a law of physics. When something
does break, the probability of breakage is inversely
proportional to the activation energy; i.e. how hard or expensive
is it to fix?
Bob -
For some reason, that post had me ROFL. Thanks for the laugh. I particularly liked the idea of the plastic bag and dozer thing....
Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
Well, I smoked the air compressor motor good today. "Fired" up the air compressor this morning and turn my back for maybe a minute or two and when I turn around there was smoke and flames coming from the motor. Toasted it good. It is now dead meat. It is a 15 amp, 230 volt 3450 motor, Sears would call it 5 HP. Need a new one now. Most likely the starting switch didn't open and started the fire. Overload protection was in smoke mode. Oh well, I got many be 15 to 20 years out of it not too bad.
Take care and work safe,
Dave Smucker
Talk to Jim Blodgett... he's always going on about smoking things.... probably even send you some alder.
That's right! Jim has a device for putting smoke back into the meat.
Some times it's good to let the smoke vent! If it backs up, a potential disaster is lurking. When I was new to construction work, the foreman got nasty with me about something. I popped him in the kisser and his cigar got flattened in about thirty directions, just like in the cartoons. I could tell from the look on his face that the smoke was backing up inside since he didn't have a cigar to vent it through anymore. His eyeballs were distended from the pressure inside. Honest to God, you could see the whites all the way around. Sure enough, then I am sure that I saw smoke leaking out of his ears and rising up from the back of his neck. It must've been awfully uncomfortable for him because his face was getting red from all that backed up smoke.
I considerd for a minute calling an ambulance for him but as it turned out he didn't need one after all. He found another way to let it all out....Excellence is its own reward!
Boss: I cannot helpyou put smoke back into electronic devices, but I can help you with your computer. Know how when it crashes you have to reboot? Well, wear steel toed safety boots and the computer will never crash. It seems that the fear of violence does more to keep things in line than violence itself.
I'll never forget the time in Bankok when my son plugged a 110 V flash gun for my camera into a wall socket. It didn't smoke, it EXPLODED!!!!! Paper and mylar and little bitty components all over the hotel room. He didn't realize that Bankok is 220 or better Volts.
Cheers.
Don Reinhard
Boss musta lost his philosophers stone. Even though it's main purpose is turning lead into gold ( it only works when the big fish are bitting) it can also turn some kinds of smoke into a well running motor - I saw this myself. The stone looks like a little box with lots of buttons. I saw this motor smoke on a video, and when I pressed a button called "rev", the smoke poured back into the motor and it started running again. Try one of those.
Don: If you get a chance, take a look at the thermopane glass cleaning thread and give an opinion (serious) on the etching phenomenon - thanks.
Boss- BTW, have those big Asian carp taken over central IL yet, do they likely smoke too?
Edited 8/2/2002 10:51:49 PM ET by JUNKHOUND
<i>" have those big Asian carp taken over central IL yet"</i>
</p>
Don't know - haven't heard anything about them. But I'll ask around.
How do you write a zero in Roman numerals?
The first thing I do when getting a new motorized tool is coat it with epoxy to prevent smoke loss. On smaller motors, like sawzalls and drills, a single dipping is sufficient. On bigger units, like my Powermatic planer, I had to dip it 5 times before it was completely sealed up.
Be sure and allow each coat set up between coats (be sure to not let it get totally hard, however, or you'll not get a good bond between the layers and you'll have to do some sanding).
It also helps to add micro balloons to keep the weight down and carbon fiber to improve coating strength.
Using a slow acting hardener allows you to put on thicker coats without the epoxy over reacting and creating its own smoke.
I use System Three epoxy http://www.systemthree.com although some of my friends have used West System with good results.
It's really nice to have your tools completely encased in epoxy, not only to prevent smoke loss, but they can be tossed carelessly off roofs or fall out of your pickup without sustaining damage. One last hint: If you do use the carbon fiber admix, your tools will be black and may be hard to identify; It's a good idea to use a permanent marker of some kind to write a description of the tool on the coating (On my jigsaw, I epoxied a blade onto the outside coat of epoxy so I could see at a glance what it was). (And if you have DeWalt tools, the yellow will actually show through!).
Hope this helps.
Great, using your system, not only will the tools never wear out but the archeologists in 4002AD will be able to opern them up and find fresh smoke still inside!Excellence is its own reward!
Smoke loss is a direct result of electron flow into the smoke reservoir. A permanent and simple cure is no further away than your linesman's pliers. Simply nip off that troublesome cord and any possibility of future smoke loss is instantly eliminated.
All that messing about with expensive epoxies is unnecessary, the cord cure lasts forever.
Joe H
Edited 8/3/2002 8:49:45 PM ET by JoeH
But the cord left on an epoxy encased tool is handy for flinging it about or tossing it into your truck or van.
Ah yes, but that cord represents a possible way for the smoke to migrate out in tiny little increments. Between the cord and the epoxy, and within the cord itself as well. Between the copper and the insulation.
No, I'm afraid leaving a cord on an epoxied motor is just asking for trouble in the long run.
Unless...You wind the cord up, epoxy it flat against the tool, then coat over that with several coats of epoxy as well.
Personaly, I prefer the plastic bag method. But since I have no dozer handy, I have to make due with just jumping up and down on it. I have never successfully reimplanted the smoke, yet. But for some reason, I always feel a LOT better after trying. Maybe it's the cardio-vascular workout I get.
Quittin' Time
...I'm soaking alder in a 3 gallon bucket overnight. Gonna get lots of smoke out of that stuff in the morning...what do you guys think, should I seal one end of the motor before smoking, or let it flow through there to create a vetrinary effect, or what?
Brinkmann for president in '04
I'd seal it up on all but one side. Since smoke rises, I figure you'd put the thing on a rack above the fire with the open side down.
Let us know if it works. Or if your Wife tries to have you committed for trying such an outlandish thing..........
Do Lipton Tea employees take coffee breaks?
Jim, I've got a couple of alder motors out under the workbench. I think most of the smoke is already gone from them. You could have them to try re-installing the smoke. Should I soak them for you before dropping them off?
;)
Haven't had this much fun since...Excellence is its own reward!
Hey Guys,
Sorry to chime in so late. But is this related to "light" bulbs. These are shaped like onions or tulip bulbs but are coated with glass [over an argon inner core] and are thus light weight - hence the term "light".
In any event, these are often used to suck darkness out of a room. At night, they are connected to some electrical stuff and "turned on" and they proceed to suck the darkness out of the room. During daylight, they seem to have little effect.
After about 1000 hours of this operation, they seem to fill up with darkness and can't hold anymore so they stop working. If you remove them, you can see that they are all black inside which proves the point.
-Peter
We are obviously on the forefront of scientific discovery here! May I propose a hypothesis? The stains of black on the inside of the light bulb are really only stains left while the darkness was passing through. The wires carried it to the motors and released it there. Since it got spread thin in the passage thru the wires, it appeaared in a vapourus state, Smoke!
Excellence is its own reward!
Me, I like smoke...my old compressor was smoking, popping breakers and such, dang, I just kept resetin' them...homeowners, contractors, they all kept asking me whut was up, I kept saying haven't you ever seen "Up in Smoke"? After a bunch of them backed away slowly with their hands out palms down and the sherriff came by with dogs with very large noses...whut's up with that? we were just workin'...hell, we do trim, smoke 'n mirrors from carbide blades...well after all that, I figured smoke was a sign, if my family was natively from around here, instead of Urope, I might have figured it was a signal, but I'm not, and while I was accidentally touristing through Lowe's I picked up a cheapo Japanese compressor, and, then went hog wild and picked up a 'merican pinner to go with it...can you guess which one doesn't work...I'm going out to grill some mahi right now...did I tell y'all I liked smoke?
Ramblin' Ravin' Billy
Yo PFN -
I'm not sure your idea hold water. (Or smoke, as in this case)
If that were the case, electric motors would be constantly filling with smoke, and wouldn't stop working suddenly when some of the smoke leaked out.
I have a microwave fireplace in my house... The other night I laid down in front of the fire for the entire evening in two minutes.
If it were right though, we would have a perpetual motion machine. Just turn on enough lights in the shop!
Excellence is its own reward!
Exactly! In that vein, and prompted by something you brought up the other day, I plan to start a thread on handsaws. I still use a selection of them at times; joint, set and sharpen them myself (self preservation. Couldn't find a saw shop that knew how anymore, or could do a decent job of it)....but I get ahead of myself.
Handsaws, however, are of pre-smoke technology.
Boss - they already make motors that can't lose their smoke. No need to DIY. Standard perma-smoke models have TENV and TEFC frames. No holes = no smoke loss. If you have the bucks and don't want to worry that some miniscule hole may allow some smoke to leak out, get an explosion proof motor, and for that matter, make all the wiring to it explosion proof. Now both the motor and the wiring will last forever. And following that logic (!), when you replace your TS motor with a perma-smoke model, you can get a smaller motor and work it harder, since it will never lose it's smoke. I don't know about explosion proof multimeters, though.
Be seeing you...
I just recently got my smoker, and I'm still experimenting with pork, salmon, and chickens with beer cans up their ***. Smoking motors sounds interesting though. I'll do a search and see what I can find.
Smoke 'em if ya got 'em!
Brinkmann for president in '04