I just started working for a builder in upstate NY. I and 5 others are working inside a home in the finish stages. They all seem to be good folks. My only problem is that every one of them smokes throughout the whole day, while they work and on the breaks. I am not a smoker and don’t like being around second hand smoke, and find it really a drag(no pun intended) to have to breathe this stuff all day and come home smelling like an ash tray. I guess I’m just curious what other non-smokers experience with this issue has been. Did they pack up and move on? I would like to stay but for this reason I am doubting if I can hack it(once again- no pun intended).
Thanks,
Peter
Replies
Some of our subs (our well drillers, sheetrock hangers, garage door guys) smoke. None of us do. Usually they step outside (or already are)
I don't make an issue of it, but you are with 5 others! I don't think I could stay there.
Another issue would be--since you are in the finishing stages--what does the house smell like when you hand over the keys?
When the Army cracked down on smoking, the sale of chewing tobacco in the PX rose so much, they have more of that for sale now than cigarettes. It goes with the job that's either stressful or boring, or both (like Iraq) -- nicotine. It also allows for breaks -- "Smoke 'em if you've got 'em." My dad didn't smoke when he joined the Army, but he found out that if he didn't smoke at breaks, the sergeant gave him a job to do. So he rolled them like all of the other guys, which also added time to the break. Don't get too PC. You aren't going to get lung cancer from smelling their smoke, despite the hype, just as we should probably prohibit fireplaces, because I can smell that sweet oak smoke when I go outside now. Funny that pipe smokers don't get that rap, because the smoke is aromatic and pleasant smelling. All I can say is, chill out. Tell them to go outside and worry about other stuff.
Edited 2/7/2007 9:22 pm ET by BARMIL
You aren't going to get lung cancer from smelling their smoke, despite the hype,
Well, the people that devote their lives to getting PhD's and MD's so that they can be experts and study how diseases progress disagree with you. I'll take the consensus opinion of the EPA, the AMA, and the medical professional community, if you don't mind. FWIW, I wouldn't take an MD's opinion on the best way to frame a dormer, either.
When we had a remodel done at our own place a few years back, I had it put in the contract with the GC that there would be no smoking anywhere on my property, inside or outside. The only exception was if they sat in their cars, and use their ashtrays, and I did that reluctantly. The way I see it, if someone spreads carcinogenic chemicals in the air I or my kids breathe, it's a form of assault, no different than if it was benzene, or asbestos fibers.
I'm a reformed smoker and I've been following this thread.I agree with most of whats been said, but we all have freedom to smoke or not.What about the carcinogens given off by vehicles driven by non smokers or smokers for that matter.
The company I work for recently banned all use of tobacco while on the job. The reason was purely economic. Tobacco use was responsible for about 20% of the cost of our medical insurance.
can't everyone use that excuse to get around the discrimination laws?
the ad in the paper (or wherever) says non smoking company (lowers insurance)
i hate the stuff myself, the smell has always bothered me, plus like my little brother says, "if I'm gonna destroy my lungs I want to get really stoned"
My dad's old work truck had such a smoke film on the windows that you had to wash a spot on the windsheild (inside) to see out.
Stink....oh yeah.
Pete
Smoke breaks are a double edge sword. If the smoker takes a break it's time out of their productive time on site. If they don't take a smoke break the lack of nicotene drags their concentration down the tubes reducing productivity.
We let smokers smoke outside, but all subs are told to pick up butts or I have to do it. I wouldn't use a sub that leaves butts.
If working for another GC it isn't objectionable to work with other carps that are smokers. It just makes those of us who don't smoke look better. When the smokers are lighting up a dozen times a day we keep working, and it might happen that we bang hammers a little more often to highlight who's working and who's not.
I don't care if those on site are smokers or not, but non-smoking clients are typically not so carefree. As much as smokers may hate it, the clients' opinions do matter.
Other than incompetance, clients' most common pet peaves are the smoke smell and time lost to smoke breaks.
Good puffing.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
i think your wrong about the not having breaks part. i get breaks at work and thats when it is hard (smokes are at the shop in my car) the rest of the time i keep busy to keep my mind off of it. going through the breaks with no smoke was tuff for the second week or so. but ill tell ya what if we get back to the shop after 5 (normal time) im no longer very pleasant.:)
I still can't believe that smokers think that they have the right to smoke where they want and throw the butts on the floor or ground like a bunch of disgusting pigs.Why is it that they throw their butts on the ground? Is a cigarette but NOT GARBAGE for some F#####D reason that I don’t know about? What is it with these morons???I met smokers that will throw out every piece of garbage from the food that they eat into a garbage can and then they will throw the butt on the ground or plywood deck. What is running through a smoker’s demented so called brain of theirs that they do this?As for cigarette breaks, that's another thread. That's the biggest joke of them all. You get coffee and lunch break in the real world so smoke OUTSIDE on those two breaks. That's it period!I'd love to see some smoker here respond back to me and say that they deserve to have 5-6-7-8 ten minute or whatever smoke breaks NOT ONCLUDING their coffee and lunch breaks and even think that they should get paid for it.Idaho,If you have to pick up your employees or subs butts.....fire their dirty a$$!!!Wednesday, I’m working inside a house that I just framed an addition on and when I pulled up I saw the electrician light up a cigarette and walk inside. The people are living in the house and they weren’t home, regardless, this guy shouldn’t be smoking in the house.There’s a section where we’re working that the garage wall is open to the living room. I’m standing there talking to the builder and I smelled something burning and we looked over near the garage wall and there was smoke coming up and it turns out that the BRAINLESS PIECE OF SH!T ELECTRICIAN threw his cigarette butt into the garage and it landed on a towel and the towel caught on fire.If we were outside, he probably would’ve thrown the butt into a pile of leaves like another guy I know did that caught on fire one time. So, any smokers out there want to defend this disgusting, dopey , bompy mutagen, idiots that do what I’ve described above??
Joe Carola
wow joe, i have read two posts from you now where you sound outright mad. i understand you have a right to feel how you want to feel about things, and maybe someone hit a nerve, but please, from someone who has nothing but respect for your abilities and opinions, don't let it get to ya bro.
if they said the wrong thing, they are probably sorry, but now you have me feeling bad for you. its not worth it to get upset.
i hate that they have construction master calculators and computers with CAD, i know how to do all that stuff with a pencil and a piece of scrap wood to draw and write on. now anybody can figure that stuff. i remember cutting in dormers on a remodel job, no plan, all layout done on the roof, after i was done the boss told me the roofer complimented the excellent carpenter who got the pitch and angle just right so his shingles weaved right in perfectly. just another day at the office.
i felt the same way about bikes and indexed shifters, all those years i practiced shifting, and now any idiot can do it just as quick as me. oh well, it seems like the older i get the better i was!
I wasn't made in the other post about the math and beating it do death. This topic does piss me off because of the constant stories about smokers who have no regard for people and their homes make me sick.When I saw the smoke coming out of the garage the other day after the electrician threw the cigarette butt into the garage I wanted to ring his neck. I told the builder he should've just kicked him off the jobsite with no questions asked. There's no excuse at all to do that. I’m not saying that all smokers are like this. It's the ones who do this garbage. They're like a bunch of animals.All this other garbage about their breaks during working hours and throwing their butts all over the street or someone’s property and even burning houses down makes me sick also. I do fire jobs and cigarettes have been the cause of some of them.I just seems like some people who smoke think that they have special privileges and everyone else around them has to accept them. They also think that throwing the butts in the street and out their car windows while driving is acceptable. They don’t even consider it as littering. I don’t get it…….So, yes this does piss me off and I will get over it until the next time on a jobsite I see some a-hole almost burn a house down.
Joe Carola
What about the carcinogens given off by vehicles driven by non smokers or smokers for that matter.
I think you misunderstand why those of us who don't smoke don't want smokers lighting up in our homes, cars or anywhere else near us. We really don't care all that much about your health. We just hate the smell.
You have every right to control smoking in your home and car. Trying to control it "anywhere near" you becomes a bit more problematic. Lots of things smell pretty bad and everyone has their own personal "favorites". How would you control that?
Lots of things smell pretty bad and everyone has their own personal "favorites". How would you control that?
I'm not trying to control anything or anyone, my point was simply that, like lots of people, I don't like to smell smoke. When an adult decides to smoke or do anything else that may be harmful to his/her health, I don't see it as my problem until I have to sit next to a smoker and pay to have my tool belt dry-cleaned.
When you said that you didn't want anyone smoking "anywhere near" you, you seemed to be stepping over the line where you have every right to be in control (in your home, car, etc) to areas where your desires may be in conflict with someone elses's desires. At that point, it becomes a situation requiring some negotiation and compromise.
The health aspects of smoking are beyond question. The issue of second hand smoke is more problematic. How much exposure is required to create a health hazard? I've never seen any studies that define a level of exposure that is safe or unsafe. It's similar to exposure to ionizing radiation. What's the threshold"
You have every right to complain on a health basis. You have no such right to complain about a bad smell. - lol
You aren't going to get lung cancer from smelling their smoke
Got any references to support that statement? The research shows that "second hand smoke" is at least as harmful, and likely more so, than "direct smoke". Put another way, you are likely to get lung cancer if you can smell the smoke (according to the doctors, researchers, and experts).
Is it even legal to smoke on the jobsite in the OPs area? Many, many places now make it illegal to smoke indoors or in the workplace.
You aren't going to get lung cancer from smelling their smokeThat is medically VERY untrue. Second hand smoke is a class one carcinogen (sp?) and is in certain environments more lethal that the act of actually smoking. In second hand smoke there are more than 17 toxic chemicals.Mike
The research shows............
One of my all time favorite debating points. Can you refer me to a study (or studies) that support your statement?
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Tobacco/ETS
Thanks, but that's not what I had in mind. I'm talking about an actual research publication that shows a "threshold" level of exposure to second hand smoke which causes adverse health affects.
Carcinogens (both man-made and naturally occuring) are everywhere and there are usually thresholds for both chronic and acute exposure levels that lead to statistically significant levels of health problems. That's what I'm looking for.
For example, in the field of Health Physics the term LD 50 defines the level of exposure to a type of ionizing radiation that is lethal to 50% of the people exposed. I'm interested in seeing data that provides analogous information with respect to tobacco smoke.
No Risk-free Level Of Exposure To Secondhand Smoke, Surgeon General Says
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/06/060627174446.htm
Passive smoke linked to heart precursors
http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/index.php?feed=Science&article=UPI-1-20070212-19430900-bc-us-smoke.xml
EVEN if the medical/scientific studies are biased (and I suspect they are not) and EVEN if some folks display general hysteria about such things as second hand smoke on thing remains clear: Smoke contains vast numbers of cancer causing substances and toxins. Why not just include some PCB's in your morning coffee.I love the idea that the drywallers in my house wear the most sofisticated air cleaning systems and then go outside and smoke numerous cigarettes. Why protect against one substance and on a regular basis willoingly expose yourself to another? It makes no common sense.
>> Why protect against one substance and on a regular basis willoingly expose yourself to another? It makes no common sense. <<That's because people who smoke are just plain stupid for smoking and can't justify it one bit.How can a smoker argue that with anyone? I do something stupid, I admit it. If I smoked, I would be the first one to say that I'm an A-HOLE for smoking and I can't blame anyone but myself. It's that simple.Joe Carola
I would be the first one to say that I'm an A-HOLE for smoking
So, are you an A-HOLE if you have a drink? Or is it just when you're on a jobsite?
Tobacco, like any other plant on God's good earth, has its purpose. And one of those purposes, medically substantiated, is that it increases long-term memory.
Expert since 10 am.
Edited 2/13/2007 10:56 am ET by jackplane
I would like to take this opportunity to respond to that statement - but I forgot what I was going to write. Given the recorded and well documented medical risks associated with smoking the belief that nicotine enhances memory retention would clearly have to be considered significant to justify smoking. Maybe just use the patch - then - if you can remember to put it on - the benifits are there without destroying your lungs.Drinking - well I'm sure there are health risks. Liver damage, destruction of brain cells, accidential injury or even death when you drink to excess are some to consider. But drinking does not have the associated problems of smoking unless you participate in a fashion that is remarkable because of excess.Driving fast has its inherient dangers - but not like smoking.
>> So, are you an A-HOLE if you have a drink? Or is it just when you're on a jobsite? <<Drinking is another thread wether you're on a jobsite or not.>> Tobacco, like any other plant on God's good earth, has its purpose. And one of those purposes, medically substantiated, is that it increases long-term memory. <<What does that have to do with smoking cigarettes? Are you saying that you found a benefit to smoking cigarettes? What good is this disgusting choice of smoking cigarettes if you have a short term life span and no memory?You're not really going to argue with me over how screwed up smoking is, are you? Were you insulted by what I say about smoking? Are you going to disagree that smoking is a smelly and disgusting thing to do and can harm your body?If I did it, I would be telling myself the same thing and wouldn't try to come up with any defense for it no matter what like you're trying to do. You should only look at smoking cigarettes one way and that there's nothing good about doing no matter how you look at it.Joe Carola
Edited 2/13/2007 12:09 pm ET by Framer
I agree smoking is a bad habit, with many ill health effects.
It is also a choice. To simply view all smokers as "A HOLES" is a blanket condemnation. While I agree with you on many topics, I find this topic to show a rather limited, simple view from you.
Frankly, I smoke because I enjoy it, like most if not all smokers. But medically speaking, it only takes one cigarette every four hours to calm the craving, and problems arise fast when one smokes all the time, like most smokers do.
No doubt best of all to stop smoking completely.Expert since 10 am.
>> It is also a choice. To simply view all smokers as "A HOLES" is a blanket condemnation. <<Jack,Yes, a very stupid choice. I never said that all smokers are A-HOLES. I said that people who smoke are stupid for smoking. I said that I would call myself an a-hole if I smoked.Well, let's face it no matter whether you call someone who smokes stupid or an a-hole, it is a stupid asinine thing to do. In my eyes if I was in front of you and we were friends I would call you stupid and an a-hole to your face because you smoke only because I love you and care about you as a friend and wouldn't want to see anything happen to you just like I do to all my friends who do smoke. Then I would break your cigarettes in half...............;-)I do however call smokers who throw the butts all over the place and burn houses down stupid a-holes and worse. You can't disagree with that.I went to a barbeque when I was a kid at my mother’s friend’s house and when I got out of the pool I went over to the table and picked of the can of coke and drank from it. Then I puked because when I drank from it I got a mouth full of cigarette buts mixed with ashes and soda that my mother and her friend used for an ash tray.I can’t even begin to tell you the battles I used to get into with my mother when she used to smoke. It would make your head spin the way she would act when I would rip her cigarettes in half and throw them in the garbage. It was like she wanted to kill me. It was insane. I bust her about it now because she hasn’t smoked in twenty years and we laugh.She tells me that as of now since she has stopped smoking, she can’t take the smell of smoke for one second.
Joe Carola
My mom smoked, too. It didn't help that she smoked "More" brand menthol-known as heartburners- to many smokers. Though her cause of death was health-related on several factors, it was never pinpointed to smoking, although I have no doubt it was a factor.
I have dropped other bad habits over the years, but having a smoke is perhaps the hardest addiction to overcome. Time is fast approaching when I will reckon with this demon.Expert since 10 am.
"having a smoke is perhaps the hardest addiction to overcome"I used to drink a bit, more than my fair share. With the support of a loving wife, I quit that.I used to smoke. When my first child was born, I quit that. What better reason, besides all the other good reasons to quit.Quitting smoking was by far harder to quit than quitting drinking. No doubt.Good luck to all that try. You'll need it. It is tough.But..............it can be done.
Rod
Yes. It can be done.
I lost a girlfriend once because she wanted me to quit and I wouldn't, at least that was a lot of the reason. I told her if she'd stop reading People magazine I'd quit, but she couldn't do that.Expert since 10 am.
>> Frankly, I smoke because I enjoy it, like most if not all smokers. <<Jack,Just out of curiosity, what is enjoyable about smoking? It has to taste nasty and feel disgusting in your mouth and feel like it's burning. It smells, you have smoke shooting in your face and hair. Your fingers smell like.....aaaaa ....gross. Your clothes smell, you smell. When you walk up to people or past them they smell you. Are your finger tips a yellow color like my friend Al's are?Is a where a person who smokes gets to a certain point that you don't see all of this?Joe Carola
As far as what I enjoy about it, Joe, I can only draw an analogy:
Having a cup of strong coffee in the morning is, 'the best part of waking up' though not with Folger's in my cup. It's like revving the engine. Then, having a good smoke is like dropping the clutch, and away we go...It's quite a buzz- and all smokes after that on that day are frankly never as enjoyable.
When I quit once for two weeks, the smell of cigs was repulsive.And there's no more adamant anti-smoker than the guy/gal who just quit.Expert since 10 am.
It's interesting, too, that nicotene is sold as a very potent insecticide, with significant restrictions on it's use. In many areas, you need a license to buy it. It's very dangerous to handle, but effective - it kills anything and everything.
Or you can just smoke it in the form of cigarettes.
The amount of nicotine in one pack of cigarettes would be lethal if ingested all at once. By a human, that is.
My wife is an entomologist, she's done some research on the neo-nicotinals (nicotine based insecticides). They're very effective pesticides.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
Seems there are two schools,one's like you and me who use reason and those that believe all that is written by the anti smoking industry.
Some issues (like this one) seem to take on a life of their own and reason goes out the window as people let their emotions overpower their logic.
Back in the day, I did some R&D work in the nuclear power industry and I actually wrote some of those papers. I also spent a lot of time reading reports written by others. One thing I found was that it's incredibly easy to let your own preconceptions let you see something that the author didn't actually say.
As a wise man once said:
Common sense...................isn't!! - lol
On the network news tonight, NBC I think, 20% of women with lung cancer never smoked, and was attributed to second hand smoke. For men, the number is 8 %.
So hysteria can subside...Expert since 10 am.
Went to a doc once with a headache,told if I stopped smoking that would fix it,went to osteopath the next day they manipulated my neck and lo and behold,no headache.
It is so easy to attribute things to smoking,everybody seems to believe it.
"You aren't going to get lung cancer from smelling their smoke, despite the hype,"Ya got proof? It's not from smelling it, it's from breathing it. If smokers get cancer and emphysema from the smoke going through a filter, how can unfiltered smoke possibly be completely safe for anyone else? There's no logic in that at all. You can smoke if you want and believe what you want but just saying that it's all hype is wrong when the evidence says otherwise. It's been known for a long time that smoking causes cancer and a lot of other diseases like weakening blood vessels, stroke, heart disease, etc. Cigarettes killed both of my parents and it's not something I take lightly.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Good question. Because I'm very new, I don't know the answer to what the customer concerns are- or aren't. All I know is the owners come be almost every day and visit. Maybe they are smokers too- I'm really not sure of that one.
Peter
I did smoke for years, but mostly on a framing crew where everybody else did too.
When I started doing custom work, I've had a "no smoking rule" inside the house since day one. I'm surprised that the owner of the house doesn't smell it and bish about it to the boss. As a former smoker, my opinion is (was) that if it doesn't affect anyone else, it should be my right to poison my own damn self anytime I saw fit. When it begins to affect someone elses health, or even their comfort or smell, that infringes on THEIR right not to smell my ####. Speak up, say something ( without being preachy; smokers won't react well to that, trust me ) and if they're good guys, they'll stop in your general vicinity. Or, they'll tell you to go pound sand, and then you can either quit and leave quietly, or call your lawyer.......
my .02
Bing
I would never allow anyone to smoke in the house...ever. Even if the homeowner says it's ok, it's just not professional, and just not done. Outside only and if you can produce while you are smoking, I guess it's your right but only if you're a sub, not an employee.
I couldn't stand to be around the smoke all day and if I was in your situation, I would tell the boss about your predicament and if it doesn't work out, look for other employment. What's more important than your health?
Nobody is more adamant about it than an ex-smoker.
Ta-Da!
I go to alot of chemical plants and power plants that you cannot smoke inside the fence, even in your pickup. and they dont give smoke breaks, so its ten hours without..
I brought home a co-worker's computer last night, because she moved and needed a modem (gasp) which I had collecting dust...I couldn't believe how badly the computer smelled of smoke....ugh.
The appropriate policy is to allow no smoking within new construction. I smoke, yet I don't from the time I go to work until I come home. Some people tell me that means I can easily quit (they don't smoke, obviously). Others who do smoke at work go out into the cold every half hour, smelling of it even to me when they come in, me a smoker no less. Given that the stench is relative to one's exposure, I've come to appreciate that non-smokers are much more aware of the smell than are smokers, so it makes sense that smokers shouldn't contaminate new dwellings, not knowing who's going to be occupying them
Oh, I forgot to reply, "You're too obsessed." Smoke smell on a computer?
Edited 2/7/2007 10:18 pm ET by BARMIL
Edited 2/7/2007 10:20 pm ET by BARMIL
Oh, I forgot to reply, "You're too obsessed." Smoke smell on a computer?
No he's not obsessed. Smokers' sense of smell is just distorted, due to constant exposure. I'm sure they have no idea how much that they, their hair, their clothes, and all the possessions stink, since they are unable to smell it themselves.
Whenever my mom sends gifts to the kids, the first thing that hits us when we open the package? The stale stench of cigarettes. And this is after the package has travelled 3000 miles. It's an incredibly persistant smell. Even the kids comment on it.
Also, the computer fan will suck in the smoke, and it will then mingle with the inevitable dust inside and stick there.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
>> Others who do smoke at work go out into the cold every half hour, <<How many minutes each 1/2 hour and who's the genius that pays for that?Joe Carola
Well I am an ex smoker and I think you will survive.
I think it's all PC gone mad.
Amen.Expert since 10 am.
IMO, once the building is dried in the workers shouldn't smoke inside. If I were having a house built and workers were smoking inside I'd throw a grade A tantrum.
My rules are simple:
No smoking in or on the structure at any time. A good way to start a fire is a hot butt on an unshingled roof
we did start a fire..ooops Someone (Key word) flicked a cigarette at the end of the day while sweeping up a frame and *someone* swept it into a plastic trash barrel we got to the job the next day the frame was nice and clean but it smelled like fire and we couldn't figure out why there was a 32"dia. hole in the floor sheathing and 3 joists we found the metal axel with the wheels to the trash barrel in the basement. We were stupid and lucky the whole place didn't go up but 5 out 6 guys smoke on the job so we were all to blame. I thought someone here would apperciate that story. Welp, I'm going to go have a smoke.
I work on a crew where 2 others smoke. Smoking has recently been banished to 25 feet from the house, but it's still annoying. I can't imagine being around 5 other guys who smoke, especially in a closed in house.
It's really unprofessional, IMHO. I would feel the crew out about them smoking elsewhere, and if not, consider moving on.
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
I build in northern Wisconsin and it seems like the majority of construction folk smoke here. I tolerate it until the windows go in, then no smoking. It bothers me more in the winter when the air is so clean.
I would be looking for other work with out the stink! So glad the smoking ban came in in NJ. Don't miss the smell coming home from bowling or resturants.
I've worked with guys who will blow smoke right in your face. Not anymore. Not one of our 14 carpenters smoke. Most of our subs don't either. New houses, remodels, repairs, doesn't matter, no smoking inside the building, and if you drop your butts outside you will hear about it.
The shape of cigarette smoke molecules are shaped so they are very "grippy"--that's why cigarette smoke will hang on clothes, even on computers.
Once the insulation is in no more indoor smoking. Your best bet is to hire nonsmokers. Ever add up how many idle minutes a smoker gets in a day? You can't work when your hands are busy with your "drugs".( It's ok, a smoker friend of mine calls them that.) I'm an ex-smoker,thank gawd awlmighty, I'm free at last.
You have a valid concern and as others have said, it can be dicey when approaching other co-workers.
Just recently being on the other end, I had an international crew hang drywall and couple of them lit up while I was there. Since we didn't speak a common language, through gestures I was able to communicate to them that I wanted their smoke outside. For a few days, the house smelled like an ashtray. As an ex smoker, I really find cig smoke repulsive, especially in a tight environment.
Bottom line is you're right. You might want to say something to your boss. If I were buying that house, I'd be mighty pi$$ to have a new home smell like an ash tray.
Rip
i smoke. and if someone was doing fininsh in my house smoking they would not be back. even if the HO didnt admit to minding they did.
I cant smoke at work and i work outside smokes stay in car at the shop. I think most any company worth working for has gone this way.
maybe the day my new house is done is the day i quit? that smell will make it alot harder.
i have heard and even spewed most of the smoking arguments. it aint any worse than the dust or fiberglass or gyp or silca or solvents etc.
but it only takes a week to phisically get used to it and i dont think i could do it at all if i could smell it all day reminding me.
so i dont mostly because company policy. alittle for the nonsmokers. and largly for the few who are triing to make a go of quitting; partially or completly
BrianWI
I don't like smoking on the jobsite but there are times that you just can't do anything about it.
Smokers can be fiercely protective of their right to smoke, and some just think they can do it wherever they damn well please. Makes it a bit uncomfortable, IMO. It's also unprofessional, again, my opinion.
I once put a no smoking sign on the front door of the house I was working on. The subs who smoked thought that the homeowner put it up, so they started smoking outside, bitchin all the way.
That afternoon the homeowner came by and asked me who put up the sign, I did, I said, and then he thanked me. He said he'd thought about it, but didn't want to ruffle anybodys feathers.
A week later I told the subs that I put up the sign. They laughed, bitched a bit, but still smoked outside.
I really believe that the majority of smokers are in denial of how bad it stinks.
Look back in the archives..............this has all been discussed before.
Rod
Just be glad theyre not chewing tobacco! Ive had to bust guys for spitting on the floor..{its just framing!} or leaving disgusting bottles of thier spit around.
I figure u get about 7 hrs of work out of a smoker in average day..why should a non-smoker have to work more cuz he doesnt have a habit that requires a break every half hour?
>> Just be glad theyre not chewing tobacco! Ive had to bust guys for spitting on the floor..{its just framing!} or leaving disgusting bottles of thier spit around. <<Are you seriuos????If so, why weren't these non human pieces of sh!t fired????Were they allowed to urinate on the floor and in bottles also????Those bottles should've been poured on their car seats or their heads.............Joe Carola
I'm right there with ya bro. TOTALLY AGREE!!!
I had some Ahole working for me on this house over the summer.
I told him no smoking except in the driveway away from the house where its all gravel.
So as I'm walking to the back of the house during lunch I catch this moron sitting on the back steps where we were working and eatting lunch at the time.
He takes his cig butt and tosses it under the chop box cause he saw me walking around the corner. The fine saw dust under the chopper went up in a blaze in two seconds..AMAZING!! lucky there was a hose right there connected.
I fired him on the spot!
Since then my help wanted ads have said "no smokers apply" but I've been told thats discrimination??? gotta be kidding me..
Thing too is...because I say no smokers need apply doesn't mean I care if you smoke...just means in short...not on my job...ANYWHERE!
"i say to foobytor have a sit down ask him whats going on inside and please try to keep up . the rest will register with him..... and you never know the human spirit is an amazing resilient entity"alias
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Change your ad to "non-smoking jobsite". As to "discrimination", it isn't illegal to discriminate against smokers...yet.My noz is froz & so is my toz.
>> He takes his cig butt and tosses it under the chop box cause he saw me walking around the corner. The fine saw dust under the chopper went up in a blaze in two seconds.. <<Another low life scumbag like the electrician on the job I was on! NO EXCUSE AT ALL and it's NOT AN ACCIDENT EITHER!!!!!!!>> Since then my help wanted ads have said "no smokers apply" but I've been told thats discrimination??? gotta be kidding me.. <<Could you imagine if that was true..............Joe Carola
Joe,
I'm a former smoker and still I agree with 100% of what you are saying and your passion about it. To me, it is a courtesy thing. Plain and simple. The safety/fire hazard aspect is a no brainer, in my book.
Another angle on the smoking and especially the chewing is the fact that this stuff should be considered a bio-hazard. When I see people spitting (expectorating if I must be PC) anywhere it creeps me out. You step in it. You then get it into your car and house. Whatever was/is in their saliva is now spread all over. Got kids? Do they play on the floor at home? Yeah, you guessed it. And we wonder why some meds no longer work.
Am I a bit too overboard looking at the issue this way? Maybe so but why not err to the safe side? Maybe someone who is more cognizant of the biological question could enlighten me....The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...
Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home.
Cigarettes? I wish that was my big problem. Here on Vancouver Island lots of the subs are baked.
i remember applying for a job on an island once (NC), told the foreman i didn't do any drugs, he told me i wouldn't get along there very well because everybody else did, and he wouldn't hire me.
just as well i guess, i'm enough of a misfit as it is without being the token non baked one. (no pun intended)
Well I guess it can work both ways. The resort up the road had a guy doing the landscaping last summer who was constantly stoned. Although I don't think it was a good idea to let him around power tools, the hedges did take on a really interesting wavy quality that people commented favourably on.
Smokers on site drive me carzy (and I smoke) ... but a close second are radio addicts.
I like the cell phone addict. that think every call is more important than the instruction you are giving them. those that pick up the phone when they enter the vehicle, everytime. every ten minutes. I have gotta where if a cell phone ring while I,m trying to talk to a guy, I walk away, I dont care who you are.
>> Am I a bit too overboard looking at the issue this way? <<I don't think you’re overboard at all. People who smoke can do it all they want even though they know it can kill them. It's the people who smoke who think that they have special privileges like taking breaks on their boss’s time get paid for it and think that they are entitled to extra breaks above their coffee and lunch breaks.It's also the ones that throw there butts all over the place as if they don't think that it's garbage like out the car window, on the ground, in houses that are being constructed and then burning them down.........the list goes on. There must be a stupid ingredient in cigarettes that make them think this way.Now I read that these degenerates are spitting the chewing tobacco on the floor and leaving the spit in bottles. These people are gross and worse than animals.
Joe Carola
I agree.
In fact, all smokers should be shot on sight. I think open season runs from May-Sept. in the mid-atlantic region. Further south, most counties pay five bucks a head for every smoker shot and brought in.
Good luck.Expert since 10 am.
Methinks that statement is a bit extreme and I'll accept it with a wink, wink.
There are a lot of personal bad habits out there, threatening to shoot someone could be one, as well as drinking, drugs, foul language, spitting, body odors, etc. Anyway, we all agree that maybe this should not take place on the jobsite for many good reasons pointed out here.
Cigarettes are still legal, your government(s) gladly accept the taxes from them and YOUR tax dollars (smokers and non-smokers) sudsidize the tobacco industry. Lobby your elected representatives to eliminate the revenue support.
Most smokers will honor any reasonable request to refrain or move their behavior from the immediate area. Try and play nice. It will probably work better than threats. Besides, their hammer is probably as big as yours and then what have you gained?
bum (former smoker)
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...
Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home.
Edited 2/12/2007 2:03 pm by oldbeachbum
Thank you
for holding your breath while I smoke.Expert since 10 am.
I think a lot of the traits described here aren't because these people are smokers, it's because they're slobs. If they quit tomorrow they'd probably still be making a mess around the jobsite.
During the last three years, various subcontractors working on my house, there have been only three guys that have been smokers. All three did their smoking on lunch breaks or after working hours while packing up their tools. Never took separate breaks, never smoked in the house, always took their butts with them. I only had one of the three ask if it was OK to smoke, I gave him the rules as above. Was OK. I used to smoke, a little here, a little there, in younger days, so I know sometimes it ain't easy to let it go for a whole day. Keep it all to yourself, in your truck or in the open air, keep your butts with you, and I'm OK with that. If I have to breathe it, smell it, or pick up after you, you're not working for me.
I had an employee working for me a couple years ago, his girlfriend was a chain smoker, he'd come in to work smelling like an ashtray. Now I have a small 250 sf home office, the minute I'd smell that, I'd assign him to some field work that got him out of the office. I told him too - soon enough he was able to come in and work in the office because he got mad at the GF for being forced to work outside because SHE smoked, and she somehow quit smoking in the morning before he left. I won't hire a smoker at all, even if you're the nicest person in the world, the best worker, smart and efficient; it's almost as bad as using my trash can for a spittoon (which my ex-boss used to do).
Yup !!...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...
Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home.
I do smoke, but never in a customer's house. It is unprofessional.
It's not that smokers deny the stink of cigarettes, it's that they just have no sense of smell! I quit for two weeks once and - man did cigarettes really stink at that time.Expert since 10 am.
And because they can't smell, they live in the land of denial that it doesn't stink for anybody else.Hey! I can't smell nuthin!My sister in law smokes. She has recently moved in with my wife and I. (another story.....azzhole husband, etc)Rules are no smoking in the house. Fine, no problem there. So, she smokes out on the deck.......in below freezing weather....single digit temps.....first thing in the morning too (5:00 am) Wakes up with that smokers hacking cough. Leaves her butts in a plastic cup 1/2 filled with water on the deck. Cup gets blown over by the wind, butts all over the ground.She picks them up at least. It's comical in a way. And then, because she can't drive.....(another story), she rides with us, shopping, dinner, etc. In the walk from the store or restaraunt to the car she lights up. She's got to get a cigarette in, in that 100 ft walk to the car. In evitably we have to wait for her to suck down a butt. Then she gets in the car and just reeks. And I mean REEKS.I love her dearly, and would do anything to help her. She went to the doctors last week with chest pains and shortness of breath. Guess what the doctors said.Wish I could help her quit.But..........I'm getting off topic. Don't want to hikack this thread. Rod
"reeks"
yeah. when I had my old truck I didn't think it smelled bad till I gave my brother a ride (a smoker from many years back- the kind that only smokes when drinking-a mystery to me). He said "Your truck smells like an ashtray on wheels."
Well, I laughed. But dangit he was right.Expert since 10 am.
It's great to hear all these comments. It's obvious that this situation is rather absurd. I guess I'm just frustrated that I spent several weeks looking for a job like this(pay and quality of homes being built), and now I might have to hit the road again. I think I will talk to the boss and tell him what I can and cannot work with, and then the answer will be revealed.
Thanks,
Peter
Like most posts, I also think that smoking should be against a company's policy .For obvious reasons,when I first started building I heard all about why.I am a none smoker so it really didn't bother me a bit.My boss had mentioned that on a particular job one of the subs(tile setter)no offense''' was tiling a bathroom floor and left his burning new cigarette on the edge of the one piece tub/shower.He forgot about it and burned/melted the top face.Then later denied it was his butt on the line.Anyways it was repaired and that was the last of the smoking in any stage of the house.
Time to start looking for another job.
I once had to ride 66 miles each way morning and night in the company truck with five smokers. Had an asthma attack one night I didn't think i would live through and they kept right on puffing. I rolled the window down in thirty below temps and they kept right on puffing.
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Thats just plain disrespectful, I smoke outside on jobs, on breaks or running to grab a tool out of the truck.
I ask people if the smoke bothers them. I don't smoke in their cars either. Just common courtesy, I rode to Tennessee and back without smoking except at rest areas, because it makes my uncle sick.
Never have I smoked in a HO's residence. Once again common courtesy.
Sometimes people's behavior makes me sick, asthma attack and they still were burning down. What a bunch of A-holes.
Roofers
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'd never hire a smoker again. why? there's plenty of good carps that don't smoke.
I read somewhere and found it to be pretty true that even when a smoker isn't smoking theyre "thinking" about when their next cig break will be and its kinda distracting. I found that to be true with a few smokers that used to work for me...they couldn't wait till they finally had their cig breaks.
Not everyone but enough so why should I have to deal with that when there's already enough BS to deal with?
I even had that in my help wanted ad (no smokers need apply) till someone told me thats discrimination and I could get sued.
Greek poet Archilochus said: "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing"! From The Hedgehog & The Fox ~~~~ An essay on Tolstoy's view of history ~~ by Isaiah Berlin
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I think that if you look into the Equal Opportunity Employment guidelines, not hiring a smoker isn't discrimination. It's not a race, creed, color, sexual orientation or a disability. It's an addiction and I don't remember seeing that it's mandatory that someone with an addiction be hired when someone without one is available. OSHA mandates that exposure to hazardous materials should be limited or avoided and IIRC, people in restaurants and bars who develop illnesses due to smoke can claim it if they can prove that they don't smoke. This is something I would check into if it came up for me.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
It's a hard call to make, but you might luck into a job you like better.
I have been a manager on jobsites for a number of years. Most of the companies I know will not let the trades smoke in a house. The potential for an upset homeowner is too great. I've found cigarette butts in duct work, and homeowner's have complained to me before about smoking in their future house. In my opinion, it would be easy to take a break and stand outside to smoke. We even would use a potential fine if we caught anyone smoking in the house.
Let the foreman know that it is unprofessional to smoke in someone else's house. Just because you are a contractor does not mean that a level of courtesy and professionalism shouldn't be shown.
Just out of curiosity, what are the workplace requirements where you are? Ohio recently passed a law, outlawing smoking in the work place. There are some exceptions, designated smoking areas and things. But I don't think a home as a work site would be an exception.
I worked on a crew of 3 (with me) who often subbed for another crew, who all smoked. I tried to make myself more or less scarce while they were smoking, and I think they realized it. We are still a relatively close group, and for various reasons, most of them quit. I doubt I can take credit for it, but some of the reasons were quitting for: wife/new kids, increased efficiency, gum surgery, wife didn't know he was smoking, etc.
So now, a couple of the guys chew, which from a bystanders point of view, is generally better.
Side-note: I just tore carpet out of a house for my neighbor(a realtor), and I should have taken pictures. First thing I did walking in the house was open up every door and window in the place, and it still didn't help. The walls, formerly white, are now a yellow-orange, and you can see where every picture was hung. The worst of it was actually seeing the tar rivulets running down the walls and the fridge.
Tread lightly when dealing with smokers, but I would do it anyway.
The walls, formerly white, are now a yellow-orange, and you can see where every picture was hung. The worst of it was actually seeing the tar rivulets running down the walls and the fridge.
You just described my in-laws house! well almost, they have both quit smoking, thank god, but now I dont have as good an excuse to not go there!
My FIL smoked 3 packs a day, MIL a pack or two a day. I couldnt stand to go to their house. I actually couldnt stand it when my wife would go there and spend the day - she'd come home reeking of smoke.
My FIL asked my wife one time why I never come over, my wife told him that I couldnt stand the smell of the house. He quit cold turkey shortly after, his wife waited but quit about a year later.
I still dont go there much but at least when I do its not the smell that drives me insane! <G>
Doug
Our company does not allow smoking inside at all. Sort of an easy fix.
An anecdote. We were installing something in an 11th fl. apartment
on Manhattan's fancy upper East side, in a building with
a doorman, and, of course, an arched awning projecting right
out to the curb so that people can step out of their limos
without getting wet.
So we get a knock at the door and it's the super, apparently
somebody has dropped a cigarette butt out of the window, it's
landed on the awning and burned a nice, round, six inch hole
in it, and did anybody in our crew smoke.