Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 26, 1999 07:20am | #1

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   KS

   Do not confuse a smooth ceiling for a level flat ceiling.

   Your subcontractor is probably correct when he says that you will not be happy with a smooth finish if the truss or rafters are uneven and the ceiling wasn't level prior to the installation of the drywall.

   This is most noticeable when glossy paint is used.

   To remedy this and give you a smooth finish, your subcontractor will have to plaster the ceiling to level it out and yes that will normally cost extra.

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   Guest_ | Mar 26, 1999 07:31am | #2

   *Look they are not impossible and he might be trying to hedge a bit. One of the main problems in ceilings is the butt joints. It can be damn near impossible to make them go away. This also depends on the light in the room. A drywall finish job can look great under 90% of lighting conitions but sunlight may stream through the windows at 7:20 a.m. every morning while you are having coffee and show all the but joints which will drive you nuts and cause him headaches he doe not need. The contractor is not the bad guy as he will probably pay the same amount for smooth as opposed to textured. THe sub is not out to get you either, he probably know from experience that what you want may be hard to give to "your" standards and he wants to give you a nice ceiling that won't cause him many call backs. I don't exactly know what would be a fair board price on this work would be, my guess is not much different from the original price quoted. I think you need to go to the main contractor and discuss this with him. He has the power over the sub and the sub really shouldn't be talking to you other than to say Hi and maybe explain what he is doing. Please understand that the sub is not trying to screw you, he is trying to do the most trouble free job for himself and the best looking job for you, so he isn't back at your house in the near future for a free day of work. Maybe you could offer to prime the ceiling before paint to show the imperfections. Then maybe you could decide whether the smooth is better or if you can compromise. I do this for a living and I like a flat ceiling, but my house is textured. The only bad part is a little more effort in caulking in crown moulding.

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 26, 1999 07:33am | #3

   *P.S. Gabe is probably on to more than I am, as plaster is almost non-existant around here.

2. 
   Allan_Wood | Mar 26, 1999 07:36am | #4

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   Sheet rock is, in general, a trick of the eye. Your builder is probably as ticked off as you are about his sub's work; but with enough effort, the sub can finish the job properly and at no extra cost.---Just expect to put up with a little cursing from the sub.

3. 
   Guest_ | Mar 26, 1999 06:09pm | #5

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   One trouble with a smooth ceiling, is that drywall, even 5/8" over 16" centers will sag some. What starts out flat will not stay flat. In strong cross lighting this will cause shadows. The texture also casts shadows that hide these.

   The butt joints are not flush, but feathered to look flat. They too will cast shadows, even when properly done.

   Even a very light orange peel texture will hide most shadows. Go with texture.

4. 
   ChadS. | Mar 27, 1999 12:35am | #6

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   KS May,

   The nicest thing for you MAY be to have the whole ceiling hand floated and troweled. This will lay a thin coat of plaster over the entire surface and level any dips or ridges. Some of the statements above about shadows should be kept in mind though, as a hand levelled ceiling it will not be perfect in all light conditions. Take an incandescent lamp and place it close to a wall at a low angle and you WILL see bumps, ridges, nail/screw spots and joints. The hand plastering can hide many of these imperfections, but it has a texture/surface of its own.

5. 
   Guest_ | Mar 27, 1999 06:07am | #7

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   Obviously none of you guys have ever seen me smooth finish a ceiling.

   Pete Draganic

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 27, 1999 07:54am | #8

   *I will always go with the smooth finish on the ceiling. I just looks better. I think the textures are tacky, and if a repair is ever necessary the texture makes it much more difficult.Rich Beckman

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 27, 1999 05:28pm | #9

   *Ks May, If you want the "smooth" ceiling, stick to your guns. The contractor is trying to take the easy way out, after agreeing to do it the way you wanted.He is warning about possible imperfections in wood, the same wood that is imperfect all throughout your house. Your walls will not be perfect, they will caxt shadows too. if shadows are going to bother you (you didn't indicate that), then sleep all day, and don't turn the lights on at night!Here in MI (new construction), we never, ever put a textured finish on. The framing is not perfect wither, but the finished product is fine for all, wxcept those with unreasonable expectations.Use a flat ceiling paint, and enjoy the ceiling.Be warned, that the contractor who is trying to wimp out, is probably not the best guy to install this type of ceiling. If the ceiling doesn't look right after installation, insist on sevice. Don't pay too early, until you are satisfied. Good hangers will make the taping easier. Of course, good framers will make the hanging easier. If their is a flaw in the frame, the hanger must see it, and deal with it by either floating, scabbing, shaving, or getting the framers to come back and fix! Ignoring will cause the severe humps, and dips that invariably lead to unsatisfactory ceilings.For those that think butt joints can't be hidden, think again. Read the fhb techniques page. If you want a totally hidden joint, it is critical to find the proper framing member to pu the joint on. If you hit a high one, your joint will always show!Smoothly yours,Blue

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 27, 1999 09:39pm | #10

   *I agree with Rich 100 percent . I built my house 18 mths ago and went with flat ceilings . My bottom truss cords were 40 ft long . The cielings look great . String lining your framing would be a good idea before sheetrocking . I paid 28 bucks a sheet for the whole 9 yds . He supplied the rock , hung it , finished it , sanded it, removed all trash , came back for 1 point up and even put 2 rosettes on the ceiling . Your contractor is trying to eliminate problems for HIMSELF at your expense . Can't say I blame him but he should give you what you want and I can't see paying much more for flat ceilings . My guy was the same for flat or textured .

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 27, 1999 11:23pm | #11

   *I agree with Blue totally. Our drywall man does smooth ceilings for all our jobs. We try to catch as much imperfections in framing as possible doing a quick check on walls and ceilings with a long straight edge prior to hanging.Our drywall guy does just as Blue mentions in his post when it comes to hanging and it reflects in the finished product. Our smooth finished ceilings look great no reason yours can't either.

6. 
   RF | Mar 28, 1999 04:47am | #12

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   I'm a drywall contractor and I always charge extra for a smooth cieling.The general contractors I work for know this and the pricing is done accordingly.When we hang the board for a smooth cieling we take care not to break butt joints on excessively bowed down rafters.I skimcoat the entire cieling to catch any defects in the board and match the finished surface to the drywall surface and do the final sanding with 1000W halogen light at cieling level.

1. 
   KS_May | Mar 29, 1999 02:07am | #13

   *Much thanks for all your input. I did go to my contractor and ask him what was specified for the ceilings with the sub before he priced the job. Seems he was told before he ever agreed to take the job that smooth ceilings were necessary. He also walk thru the house and looked at the job. Needless to say my contractor was not pleased that the sub was trying to up the agreed to price. The contractor told me if he did not do the job according to his quote he would not be doing any more work for him. He did tell me the sub is one of the best in the region and he does take a light to check his workmanship as he sands. And even comes back and double checks it a couple of days later. He called him a "perfectionist" and told me I would like his work. I also got to see another home he did with smooth ceilings recently and it was good work.Thanks again for your help.KIM

7. 
   Guest_ | Mar 29, 1999 09:46am | #14

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   Here, in earthquake country, the generic solution to wall finish used to be "Skip-Trowel". Then it became blown "Mediteranian Knock-down". Tracts still do these but there a lot of smooth wall being done these days. Tapers will arque about how to make it smooth but I agree with some about this technique. With a strong side light, look for the shadows across the ceiling and mark them with a lumber pencil. Shine the light from different positions, especially form above the windows. Using a long darby or straight edge apply fast set joint compound or "Structo-lite"
   across the deep fill areas. Then apply the skim coat(s) till smooth. It should only add one day or two to your operations. I've also been seeing the tapers thin out the topping compound so it can be applied with a thick nap roller. They cover all of the drywall, trowel smooth and sand. You can wind up with a plaster smooth finish. Finally, several paint companies now have a coating that acts as a filler and a primer. It will eliminate a lot of sanding marks for a great smooth finish.

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 29, 1999 10:37am | #15

   *Texture has it's place in tract homes...Smooth ceilings are easy including depressing butt joints so they are flush...Never have seen drywall sag on my ceilings but have seen unfilled taped seams. Figure on paying two to four times the speed tapers price though.Near the stream,J

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 30, 1999 04:55am | #16

   *I work on a lot of historic homes, all of which seem to be retrofitting plaster with smooth finish drywall. Here are some tips:1. String Line the Chords.2. Shim the low spots.3. Add 1 x 2 nailers accros the Chords. This is more common in the East Coast than out here, but it really works well to support and stabilize the Rock.4. Go with 5/8" minimum; 3/4" is preferable.5. Add a heft skim coat over the whole mess.6. Use a high quality dry wall/plaster primer and follow up with navaho white flat wall paint. The cheap stuff is fine. Blow it on if you can.Hope this helps.....

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 02, 1999 01:34am | #18

   *Used the roller and 18" squeegee last time and it worked well-used for smooth walls. I had do do some sanding however. I am an amateur an wondering if it can be done with almost no sanding. The long darby sounds good. Kind of frustrated in that I did my ceilings in an orange peel effect. Now you all tell me that it is no longer in. Messy as the dickens to spray that stuff up on the ceiling and knock it down.Dennis

8. 
   KS_May | Apr 02, 1999 01:34am | #17

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   We are building a new home. We hired a contractor who hired a sub to do the sheetrock and dry wall. From the very beginning I have said I want smooth ceilings.
   Well, for the past week the sub has tried to persuade me to do textured "Spanish Lace" ceilings. He thinks I won't be satisfied with smooth saying there are some bows in the wood trusses that were constructed off site. He keeps saying its no one's fault, it just happens. I can accept that (if I have to) but isn't there a way to fix it so I can have the smooth ceilings that I want.
   Also he is saying it now will cost more than his original estimate but that was supposed to be based on smooth ceilings. What is a fair by the board price for this work?