Good Morning,
I have a drain at the bottom of a downstairs basement entrance that has started backing up after a heavy rain and flooding my basement (twice now).
I am guessing this drain is a “run-off” drain that has now clogged.
So, my questions are:
1. How do I tell where this drain goes?
2. How do I clear it?
3. If I block the drain what will happen?
Thanks for your help.
– Adam
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Replies
Welcome to Breaktime.
We all like it if newcomers fill out their profiles so we know where you're from.
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If the drain has a cover that comes off, try removing it and see if the trap is full of stuff. It could be a simple fix.
If not, you could rent a drain snake thingy and try to clear it yourself if you were inclined to. It could just be clogged with dirt.
You could also hire a plumber to do it for you. A plumber may have a tracer he can hook to the eel and trace where the drain line goes.
Thank you for your quick reply. I am in Tennessee and have updated my profile.The drain has a basic strainer type cover on it with two screws. There is nothing clogging it right below the cover. The pvc pipe immediately takes a 90 degree turn after a few inches underneath that cover so I cannot tell if anything else is blocking it.Interestingly when we have a hard rain, water is actually PUSHING itself back up from the pipe as if I had a pump on the other side pumping water into the pipe from the far end and pushing it back to me. Water doesn't usually flow against gravity, right? :)I had a plumber out here for another problem and they said it would be difficult to impossible to snake it due to length. They recommended plugging it.I don't know that is such a good idea from either a pressure standpoint or blocking off the drain from this landing.Thoughts?Thanks.
"PUSHING itself back up from the pipe " = plugged line and downspout backup. The line is clogged somewhere downstream of the downspout/floor drain connection. The water is flowing downhill from the downspouts into your floor drain. This is consistent with my assumptions in the prior post. You wouldn't necessarily have to snake the floor drain. You may be able to run the snake down one (or more) of the downspout drains.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
Added: A plumber with the right equipment can trace his snake. If needed, he can add a cleanout every 50' or so to facilitate future cleaning. He can also run a camera through the pipe to get a better idea of what he's dealing with.
Edited 5/1/2009 9:00 am ET by MikeHennessy
Hmmm....As I understand it, a downspout is a piece of metal/aluminum that is attached to the gutter to bring the water down to the ground and away from the foundation. Correct?If so, then I am not sure how these downspouts would have anything to do with an underground drain.Or am I missing something?
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Just saw your added remarks. What would you think (roughly - of course) snaking with a camera would cost in PA?
Downspouts are generally connected into a drain line at the bottom. If yours are not, but are just directing water onto the ground, they are not directly part of this issue. Another possibity is that your floor drain may be connected to a footer drain that has clogged. (It shouldn't be, but who knows?) Same logic applies tho'. A camera may be the best way to start troubleshooting this. Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
He's suggesting that you may have gutter/downspout drains hooked into the drain that water is coming out of. So when your gutters fill up the water has nowhere to go but up out of that drain.It could also be that you have footing drains going into the same line. The same thing would result - The footing drains fill up, then the water comes up out of this drain.I think you need to have a plumber at least TRY to clear the drain with a snake. The clog could only be 10' down the line. While the snake was in there they could hook a tracer to it and see if they could tell which direction it goes. If you can find the outlet you can go back in from that end. Or dig down somewhere that you KNOW the pipe is, break into it, and clean both direction from that point. (And put in a cleanout while you're at it)
Thanks for the clarification.I will have to find someone who can snake this for me and see where it goes.My downspouts are not connected to anything and just direct water onto the ground away from the house.Plugging this particular floor drain is not really an option since it will cause water to buildup in this area with no where to go.But, if I were to plug it (hypothetically) would that cause a pressure buildup and a) potentially force the clog to move or b) cause a pressure buildup causing the pipe to rupture?Finding a point at least a few feet away from the house and laying a new one is probably the best option (assuming the snaking doesn't work) but I think this drain is 10' or so underground which means a lot of digging.
I agree that plugging it is not a good option. That would be treating the symptoms and ignoring the problem. If the water is coming from footing drains, the water will just find another path to go somewhere - Probably back into your basement by a different route.
Finding a point at least a few feet away from the house and laying a new one is probably the best option (assuming the snaking doesn't work) but I think this drain is 10' or so underground which means a lot of digging.
You are correct that laying a new one will probably be the best answer if you can't snake the old drain line clear, but don't try to dig that by hand; rent a mini-excavator or backhoe and have some fun while you're at it. C'mon, admit it: you've always wanted to play with one of those things.... ;-)
Since you're on a hill in the woods, just run the line out to the side of the hill to daylight giving it a couple of inches per foot slope. If the drain isn't connected to any other drains and runs to daylight below the source, it should not back up so you shouldn't need an anti-backflow valve. But use a 3" line; it's not that much more expensive than 2" and will stand a lot more crud buildup before you have this problem again.
Oh, yeah: put a grill cap on the daylight end of the pipe to keep snakes, possums, and other varmints outta there.
Below-grade stairwells are always a problem to drain; it's really a design flaw when you get right down to it. The best way to solve this problem for the long term is to roof the stairwell over so that rainwater (and dead leaves etc.) can't get down there in the first place. That will reduce the demand on your drain line to a minimum.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Good Evening, Thank you all for your replies and information. I believe the issue currently has a temporary solution. We have been receiving a lot of rain over the past few days which has again provided me with an indoor swimming pool. On top of that our toilets decided to stop flushing. Now even though everyone has told me this drain and surrounding "french drains" (I believe they are called) are not supposed to be connected, I think they are at least dumping to the same place as the field lines for the septic tank. I had our tank pumped (which was no easy task due to the original installer not equipping this tank with a "clean out."). And because of the tanks configuration we were not able to put in a clean out since the opening was square and large. It appears digging it up every 5+ years is the current option. After the tank was pumped water poured back into the tank apparently from the field lines and "pit" it was supposed to be sent towards. It seems the septic tank has been working overtime to handle the influx of waste from the house AND backlog of water from the rain including water from the french drains around the house. During the latest bout of rain, before the pumping, I was able to see water coming from all directions in the basement and now there is none (at least at the moment). So, if pumping does solve the issue then I will close this case until 2014 or so, otherwise I will have to run new field lines (which I am told was not run properly originally). Please feel free to leave any additional thoughts! Thanks.
My only suggestion is that you re-route thot floor drain and the gutter drains somewhere other than the septic tank. It's not AT ALL a good idea to have them running into the tank.If they aren't running in there, you might be able to go many more years between septic tank pump outs.
Bumpersticker:If you can read this, I can hit my brakes and sue you.
Actually, I do not think the drains are running into the tank, I think they are running into the same "pit" the tanks field lines are running into.After they pumped the tank, you could hear water back filling into the tank most likely from the field lines due to saturation.The flooding problem just happened over the past few months. We have not had any problems like that within the past 10 years otherwise.
snake thingy???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Sorry - Didn't mean to use an overly technical term...
"Backing up" as in "water doesn't go down", or as in "water comes out of it when it rains"? If the latter, and I'll assume it is, it's probably connected to your downspout drains and they are filling up the lines -- which happen to be obstructed and not draining where they should, but now drain into your cellar stairwell.
The bad news is that downspout drains are often just dumped into a drywell -- a pit filled with rocks and covered over that fills with silt and stops accepting water one day after the installer disappears, causing the lines to back up. This can lead to several problems, like the one you are experiencing, issues with freezing and bursting downspouts, and water accumulating too near the foundation.
Where does it go? Unless your downspout drains exit to daylight somewhere in your yard, there's no telling. You could possibly find out with a pipe tracer, but that wouldn't do you much good, since it'll probably just dead end in the afforementioned drywell.
Can you block it? Only if no water gets into that spot that needs to exit through the drain. Otherwise, you've still got flooding issues. And, you still haven't addressed the issue of plugged downspout lines, and that'll cause water issues for you in the long run elsewhere.
Fix? Tough one. You can try snaking the line and you might get lucky. If not, you need to locate the drywell, dig it up and re-do it or, better, just bypass it and run the lines to daylight. Or, you could try disconnecting all your downspouts and redirecting their discharge well away from the foundation.
Bottom line: this could be the first symptom of a larger issue that you may want to carefully assess and address.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Everything fits, until you put glue on it.
Thank you for your reply Mike.I am not sure this drain (or others) empty into a drywell as we do not have anything like that near the house.This location is "in the woods" on a hill so I am guessing it might go to daylight somewhere which in theory is downhill from the house.That is my biggest problem - how to tell WHERE it goes.As I said in my previous post which went up after yours, snaking (according to the plumber) may be difficult due to length.I am guessing it is blocked, but how is it getting back up the hill (if that is the case).Can I get a snake a few hundred feet long?
In addition to whatever you do to help clear the drain as MH and BH have suggested, it will be a good idea to install a ball check in the drain opening that is at the bottom of the stairs. This will prevent future back-ups even if the drain becomes clogged in the future.
A ball check is a two-piece assembly you screw into the body of the drain fitting. It has what looks like a large ping pong ball that you drop into the drain first, and then you screw in the other part, which makes a seat for the ball to float up against if water rises in the drain. Normally, the ball lets surface water drain, but when water tries to rise up out of the drain, the ball floats up and seals the line.
Sounds complicated, but it's simple.
The hard part is probably that the body of your existing drain is not equipped with 2" female threads down inside where the ball check assembly is meant to be screwed in. This means that you'll have to replace the drain body with the right kind that will accept the ball check.
The stuff you'll need to do this is pictured in the Website below. The Weld One Integral Trap Floor Drain, and the 802-7 Backwater Device.
http://www.siouxchief.com
How far is the landing below grade? And how far from the house is the grade below the landing? The pipe's end is probably just below that.
If your downspouts are truly draining away from the house, and there's no other wet weather draining thingies (thought I'd throw that out since this is turning so technical) it's a pretty good bet it's water from your foundation lines. How it's getting there is another thingie.
If the lines and the drain are connected, and the exit line is plugged, snaking might work. Line out could be crushed, though... then a tracer would be handy, unless you want your yard to look like "Holes"
You can get at least a 100' snake at a rental center.
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"