Years back I took on a business name when I went independent
“Blue sky nail pounders” ( not real name)
and since then , 1996, whenever anyone talks to me about my work , I say we, I never say I , I say we , we do this , we diesgin this , we do that
even though no-one person had been with me the whole time, and at times we go from 9 people to 2 people, and at times even me
and many years I amde less then my “employees”
( you know that benefit of owning your own biz)
and most of the contractors etc in the area , when you look in the phone book are the same. Big River buildiers, mountain view builders, village builder, straight line builders. very few are Jones construction, Smith home builders.
yeah there are some, but not many
so we needed new signs the other day. my wife and kids insisted my name be on them.my wife said, its about frickin time you took some creidt
“Fred Flinstones Rock Quarry”. Or Joe Shmoe’s bleu sky nail benders”
I put my name on them, the signs, I feel awkward.
I know, yes I KNOW, we do better work then 75% of the others out there. in all these years not one complanitn to the state, to BBB, to lawyers, nothing
this is the first year we have cut advertising, why, its now all word of mouth
and more work then we can handle,
but I want more, I wnat to make a living a good living and take a vacation or two
sooooooooooooo
come on man spit it out
ok
so what is your opinion
knowing that the town knows we do good work
is it better to go by a ” biz name “
or go by YOUR OWN name
Replies
Here are my thoughts about a biz name and signs.
Whether or not you put your name in your biz name probably doesn't matter, unless you have a name that's difficult to say or spell.
Having your specialty, like "construction," or "toe nail cutting," embedded in the name, isn't important.
Placing your sign out in front, where and when you are working a job, is a great way to generate leads.
Consider "McDonald's." How about "Kinko's." But, these are big recognized names, marketed nationally. Something as simple as "Professional Roofing" could work anywhere.
Having a website, and having your web address on your sign, is quite important.
Your website should present everything about your business that is necessary for development of sales, that you can come up with.
Think about it. Why would you put up a sign, anyway? Signs cost money. You aren't doing it for your ego, are you? You are advertising.
Don't you think that most every potential new customer that you don't know yet, has a connection to the world wide web?
You can't pack it all onto a sign. But you sure can make a great presentation, with graphics, photos, links, even sounds, with a website.
Gene, I'm going to politely disagree about the website. I'll agree that it can be a very important tool, but not more important than the actual name, along with the positioning.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
isa.... if you can keep your picture off the post office wall, i think you're better off with your own name in the title
like Davitt Woodworking or B.N. Goldstein Roofing or Reid's Remodeling
i figure.. i'm standing out there in the open.... i will live or die by my reputation..
either i'm good and they'll want me .. or i'm not , and they won't.. then you have to figure out how to live up up to the hype
here's how we do it:
M. F. Smith Associates ---- Builder
but, hey, whadda i no ?
One issue with using your own name as the business name.
I've read this in Remodeler or Forbes.
If you ever expect to sell the business, and there is no reason why you should not be able to, having it called by something other than your name is a BIG plus.
Actually, I think the way that the info was formed, was that having the business as your name was a big negative if you wish to put a price tag on the business.
If you take some time to think about this, it makes a lot of sense.
Once Eric Paulson Builder Contractor sells the business or dies, there is no more Eric Paulson.
Acme Builder Contractor will always be Acme Builder Contractor no matter who owns it.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Thats a very good point Eric. Some people think that they never will sell their business, but they are foolishly passing up some very big bucks and deep in their subconscious they are sabotaging and limiting their company.
Think big....you might fall short, but if you only end up a billionaire, they'll at least have something to bury you with.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
I struggled with naming the company many times over the years. My first corporation was Arjay Construction Company. It was a combination of R and J but mispelled to take advantage of the "A". I was very young back then and I didn't give marketing a thought.
I quickly hated that name. IF I was trying to get someone to understand how it was spelled, we quickly got into a abbot and costello "who's on first?" routine.
So, avoid names that are hard to say, hard to spell, or contain weird characters.
I next named my company J.R. Allen, Inc. I intentionally wanted to leave the product designation out of it. I also felt like Mike, that since my name was on it, it implied that I was willing to stand behind it. I quickly started hating it. Every time I had to have someone spell it, I'd have to specify that it had dots in the name. Even then, I routinely had people sending me stuff with the name misspelled.
I now have a couple more that I operate under. I'm working the construction biz as Advanced Construction Concepts, LLC. I had a list of about 50 names that Frank and I were considering and the ones he wanted just didn't get me excited. I wanted a name that had some intrigue to it, mentioned our core business and could easily be shortened to a nickname. We refer to ourelves informally as A C C. I don't like our logo, it wasn't professionally done and it predictably uses the big A, but that's a differnt topic.
I also operate a real estate investment biz called AuSable Shores LLC.
I'm contemplating one or two more companies. One I can't talk about but it is unrelated to construction or real estate. The second one is real estate related. It basically would be a real estate type name targeted specifically toward my target market...like Section 8 rentals, LLC or something similar.
Names can help you or hurt you. Choose them wisely.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
My family operated a business for almost 140 years under their name, kinda. They were based in Lancaster, PA...named after Lancaster in good ol' England, the Red Rose city...soooo, they put Red Rose in the name, too.I don't think either name helped them sell any more, but I always liked the association with the town the biz is in...ya know, let folks know it's not totally all about me<G>...One of the nicknames for this place is "the village,"...simple, unpretentious...I think the Village Woodworks, Inc. has a certain ring<G> I'm hopin' it's ca-ching! Don't worry, we can fix that later!
I almost started a similar thread on Friday, so I'll just jump in on this one. I just passed my contractor's license test in California, and I'm setting up a business while I continue to work for someone else. I've been in the trades for 32 years, so I've seen a little of how this stuff goes. When you first apply to take the test here, on the application it asks for your business name. So I already have a business name, even though I don't have a business yet. The name I picked is Moondance Construction Company. I like it and that's what it's going to be, but I was going to start a thread just to get opinions, and to start a discussion on naming your business.I had a business years ago with my name in it, which put me at the front of the phone book, and I was OK with the name. But I found out being at the front of the listings in the phone book doesn't mean sh*t, and if that's what you count on for work, you're in trouble. I also had another business for a few years, building decks, trellises, gazebos, etc, and called it Decks Unlimited. My girlfriend suggested it, and I said, "Cool...kind of a play on Ducks Unlimited." She said she didn't think about that, but I liked the name and used it for a few years.I've always liked the name Moondance, and I love Van Morrison's song by that name. I live in Santa Cruz, where they sell bumper stickers that say "Keep Santa Cruz Weird." I know they stole the idea from Austin, but they really mean it here. The weirder the better. So Moondance Construction won't sound a little strange, like it might in Macon. I plan to specialize in repairing, restore, and rehabilitating old houses, as I've talked about in other threads. But I don't want a name that will lock me into one area of the trade. I want to be able to take on any project that suits my fancy, and I want my name to reflect that. Hence the C.C.
When I go into business this time, I plan to run it like a business, and y'all are helping me a lot on that.But I don't plan to be just another construction business. There's one thing that will make my business different and unique. Me. I'm a 50 year old man who has lived and worked all over the United States, on jobs large and small. I'm 6'2" tall, and in good shape. I have a bachelors degree, and I'm an avid reader. I have a wealth of experience and knowledge about the field I'm in, and I do really nice work. I love old houses. The people I'll be working for have never met anyone who will treat their old house as respectfully and lovingly as I will. I really like people. I enjoy meeting new people. I especially like elderly people. I love to hear their stories. Old ladies like to flirt with me. What I'm trying to say is that, in general, the clients I've worked for like having me around. They enjoy the work I do, and the way I conduct myself while I do it. I have aood sense of humor and I'm pleasant to have around. I also get things done. And when I'm finished with a job, it's done right, it looks nice, and I've left their property neat and tidy.So I guess what I'm saying is that I'll be marketing me, and the business name I chose is one that I think reflects a little of who I am. I have long hair and an ear ring. In some areas, that might be a minus, but this is Santa Cruz. I'm well-groomed and drive a late model truck, so I'm actually kind of conservative looking, for Santa Cruz. "I know not how I may seem to others, but to myself
I am but a small child wandering upon the vast shores of knowledge,
every now and then finding a small bright pebble to content myself with."
....Plato...427-347 BC
Allen in Santa Cruz
I love this thread!
Moondance, your're on the right track. You've created a name, that fits well with your market. I'm not fond of Construction Company, but the Moondance part is great, given the areas history.
Since you like to read, I'm going to pass on a very excellent suggestion of a book called Positioning. I have to give thanks to someone in here that offered it up as a suggestion and I must say, it should be read by every business person in America. It'sa quick and easy read, but loaded with just the info that every marketeer must adhere to.
Stop tomorrow at the bookstore. We'll have a much funner discussion regarding names.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Thanks, blue! I'll get it tomorrow. I know not many people are using Construction Company these days. Maybe I'll change my mind about that part after reading this book, but I think the Moondance is perfect, for me and for this area.
Allen in Santa Cruz
Moondance, I'm thinking something like:
Moondance Creations LLC....Construction that transcends the ages.
It sounds a little weird for Michigan, and I'm not sure about the word creations...I'd hit the thesaurus book....
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
or Moondance Construction LLC...Creations that transcend the ages
SanchoRon the caballero bowed low as he waved his sombrero and said goodbye.
FREE SANCHO!!!
<<<or Moondance Construction LLC...Creations that transcend the age>>>Thanks, razzman. I plan to be a sole proprietor, so don't need the LLC. And I plan to specialize in historic restoration work, but willing to do anything interesting. So i don't see myself so much creating as restoring. Creations to me would be more for someone building new homes. Thanks for the input, tho. Nothing is etched in stone for me yet.
Allen in Santa Cruz
Moondance Construction ...Recreating Qualities of the Past
Moondance Renovations ...A Quality Future from the Past
Moondance Construction ...Restoring Links to the Past
Moondance Construction ...Historical Restorations
Moondance Construction ...Historical Restoration and Renovation
SanchoRon the caballero bowed low as he waved his sombrero and said goodbye.
FREE SANCHO!!!
From:
the razzman <!---->
2:10 pm
To:
moondance <!---->unread
(53 of 54)
54523.53 in reply to 54523.52
Moondance Construction ...Recreating Qualities of the Past
Moondance Renovations ...A Quality Future from the Past
Moondance Construction ...Restoring Links to the Past
Moondance Construction ...Historical Restorations
Moondance Construction ...Historical Restoration and Renovation
Moondance Restorations....Glamorous Resurrections
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
allen.. have you ever operated as a Chapter S ?
i was sole prop for the first 25 years or so.. two things i was always in trouble with.. both were related to the IRS
one was not doing my Quarterlies in a timely manner and depositing the neccessary withholding funds ( robbing peter to pay paul )
the other was not filing my estimated taxes on time .. or not sending in the correct amount
finally i got a payroll service.. that took care of the quarterlies and the payroll deposits.. all i had to do was fax the hours in every week and make sure there was money in the checkbook..
the money i saved in fines paid for the payroll service and the bonus was the extra time i didn't ahve to devote to payrolls and reports
the 2d thing was incorporating .. after that , i became just another employee.. and my taxes were withheld automatically.. also .. if you pay yourself enough to satisfy the IRS, you don't have to file any estimated taxes during the year.. just at the end of year
those t things convinced me that incorporating for me was a great thing.. i haven't looked into LLC.. so i don't know if that would be superior to the Chaper S...
i do know that i think differently as a corporation than i did as a sole prop.
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, the LLC has been described as a hybrid that has the liability protection of the corp, and the tax advantages of the S corp, with far less of the formal administrative duties of either.
I know that there will be many lawyers that will offer different warnings, but for most of us, there are a lot of ways that we can icrease our defense systems, even if we use a LLC.
In any case, the only way I WOULDN'T operate is as a sole proprietor or a general partner. That's like asking to give away your assets....
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
blue.. i avoided incorporating for a loooonnnggg time.
i can't remember what fianlly tipped me over.. i think i finally realized that we live in litigous times.. and we had some assets that i should make an attempt at protecting.. or at least getting out of harm's way..
so , the liability thing was a key point.. but after i did it , i found out there were a lot of bennies to me, that i hadn't considered..
the biggest is i felt more like a business..
when i was sole prop.. i felt more like an expensive hobbyist.. you know.. last one to get paid.. blah , blah , blah. every other year would be a red ink year..
taking money out of the check book when i needed it.. co-mingling funds..
after i incorporated i realized i wsn't going to let the owner treat me like sh*t anymore.. and started demanding i get paid just like the other employees..
there are certain disciplines that a corporation ( or i guess an LLC ) requires that sole prop doesn't.. and since i'm chort on self-discipline.. the corporate structure has really helped
and .. as long as i follow my lawyer's and cpa's advice, i feel better about shielding our assetsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
and .. as long as i follow my lawyer's and cpa's advice, i feel better about shielding our assets
That's good advice and I know you've offered that forever to anyone considering a corp.
I'm also short on self discipline, especially relating to Resolutions, etc. I'm a much better fit with the LLC. In an LLC, you really don't have much formal stuff to do, except at the beginning. The paperwork is significantly lighter.
I think everyone has to judge their goals, assets, ability to handle risk, paperwork etc.
I also fully understand why you prefer to be an employee of your corp. It forces you to pay yourself, but realistically, if there isn't enough to cover the wages, guess who gets paid last anyway!
One of the ironic things is that often, people run from incorporating, or forming different entities because they automatically think they cost more. I say "ironically" because often, there are substantial savings to be had if one takes the time to investigate and learn about such things. These entities were created by wealth people manipulating their way into greater wealth, while protecting their assets from the leacherous lawyers that they themselves latch onto first. Then, it all sounds so complicated that the average joe thinks it's not meant for them, so they send in thousands of extra tax dollars, while leaving all their assets, and their future earnings exposed.
There isn't anything worse in the IRS code than earned W2 income, except maybe soleproprietor income!
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Sounds like you and Mike are both against the sole proprietorship, blue. Do y'all think the LLC, rather than incorporating, would be better for a guy like me? I hope to get by without regular employees, subbing out the other trades, and using a temp service for casual labor, at least to start with.
Allen in Santa Cruz
Check out "Loopholes of the Rich" by Diane Kennedy. I thought she had a different book that explained things fairly good, simple and straightforward. I did a amazon search and couldn't identify which book I was thinking about.
I also like this one: Own Your Own Corporation : Why the Rich Own Their Own Companies and Everyone Else Works for Them (Rich Dad's Advisors (Paperback))by Robert T. Kiyosaki, Garrett Sutton, Ann Blackman
This book helps you to figure out which entity is best for you.
You are right, I am against being a sole proprietorship for many, many reasons. One very big reason is tax audits. Sole proprietoships are targetted because of their schedule C deductions. They have the highest audit probablility. That alone would make me want to set up an LLC!
I'm a big fan of LLCs because I've known the pain of C Corp paperwork. The LLC is a dream compared to the C or S corp. IF you don't do the paperwork and cross your t's and dot you I's, the C Corp won't protect you anyway.
California, unfortunatly, is one of those states that like to tax LLCs and probably Corps. Here in MI, the LLC is very cheap, less than 100 for filing fees to set up and maybe a few dollars (5 or 15) each year to keep the records updated. I think California hits you guys up for $ 500 per year! I don't see that Garett Sutton book, I know that info is in the back of one of the books on my shelf.....
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Mike, I have operated as a sole proprietor before, and ran into the same problems you did. I'm just now getting the taxes I owed for 1997 paid off. I'm in no rush to get into business, and I want to take the time to make the right decisions now. So I'm going to take your advice and look into incorporating, or operating as an LLC. Right now I don't know the advantages or disadvantages to either, but would appreciate any advice.
Allen in Santa Cruz
MD,
I am currently dealing with some tax ghosts from the past.
That you admitted the fact here tells me something about you.
It is not easily discussed, often treated by some as a contagious disease.
I am always seeking experiential information on business topics.
Would you care to share with me privately what you have been going through dealing with this liability?
E mail me please, if you would.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Eric, I have some family members that are in the middle of some tax issues right now. Ironically, it wasn't their fault that a mistake occurred...it was the CPA's fault. They had sold some property and although they made a pretty hefty profit, the capital gain was messed up oh the tax return.
They got audited 1 1/2 years later. The tax man said they owed 35k! Luckily they have a lawyer plan that provides some significant lawyer coverage if they get audited by the IRS. So...their $500(edit: PER HOUR) dollar tax specialist lawyer takes over. He lays out a strategy, tells them to stand pat...he's got a lot of tricks and he doesn't think the 35k number is right...but they owe something....it'll all be negotiable.
Since there's now a lawyer involved that specializes in taxes (he was on the other side for many years and knows the gig), the IRS auditor postpones the next meeting....the IRS agent knows he's not going to roll over some ignorant homeowner now...
A year later, my family member seeks additional CPA opinions, because they are sick of the IRS thing hanging over their heads. They'd rather start making payments or something, and the lawyer isn't doing anything, so they just want another opinion. The CPA tells them..."don't do a thing....since the audit is in progress, and a lawyer is on the case, the IRS has obviously shuffled it down into their "to-do" file"! The CPA also told them that the IRS has a very limited amount of time ?(I think he said 2 years) to close the audit, or it automatically ends, with no hope of opening again. In fact, he showed the family member a file from one of his clients that just expired that week. He said it's not uncommon for these types of audits to just go away.
I'm thinking that the IRS agents, who are under pressure to collect, and overworked, are just like you and me. We take the path of least resistance.
The key is to hire professionals. I know it sounds expensive, and you probably don't know who to hire.....
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Edited 2/27/2005 8:46 pm ET by blue_eyed_devil
Thanks Blue,
My situation does not involve audits. I wish it were that simple.
I probably should not say anymore in a public arena.
I have a pro on the case, a raspy voiced, cigarette smoking, whiskey swilling old cuss of a woman! She swears she can kick azz, and she came highly recommended by our mortgage broker. I haven't found the spitoon yet!
I'll give her a shot.
Good advice to anyone starting out to be s/e.............................
PAY YOUR FRIGGIN TAXES NO MATTER HOW MUCH IT HURTS, CAUSE IF YOU DON'T, IT'S GONNA HURT A LOT MORE LATER ON DOWN THE ROAD !!!!
Over and out.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
PAY YOUR FRIGGIN TAXES NO MATTER HOW MUCH IT HURTS, CAUSE IF YOU DON'T, IT'S GONNA HURT A LOT MORE LATER ON DOWN THE ROAD !!!!
I know of at least one good framer that was put out of business by the IRS. He got caught up in that independent contractor sting. He fought the IRS for at least 20 years until he capitulated. In the end, he took out a 95K mortgage on his farm and handed 90k over to the IRS to get him caught up. That was his retirement reward from the government...he was 60.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
irs... what a motivator..
i've done my dances with them.. no audit.. but arrears in taxes ... .climbed out of that hole.
NOW: my S-corp costs $200 / year to my attorney for minutes and keeping the corporate records
$250 min/tax to the state
$50/annual filing fee
$350/ to my cpa.. so, what ? less than $1000 / year
i'm an employee of the corporation.. and covered by WC on the job
most of the liability is on the corporation..
all of the tools and equip .are owned and expensed by the corp.
i pay taxes on any profits and, of course, my income as an employee
remember all those freebies to customers in the past ? ( c'mon.. you remember.. charging the customer for your guys ,but not yourself ? )
now.. i'm just an employee.. and the owner of the corp charges for everybody
i'm going to look up what the "Contractor's Legal Kit says about the difference between S-- C--- * LLC
but you should really have a talk with your CPA.. ( wait until after May 1 , when she gets back from screwing her head back on )
for 25 years i convinced myself that i didn't need the complicatins of incorporating
when really i was just postponing a great opportunity
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
And Mike, it really isn't that complicated to do your own minutes for a small closely held C or S Corp. All it takes is a good understanding which can be obtained by reading a few books and using their standard forms. When you think about it, you'd realize that that is what the lawyers are doing. But, if you aren't going to dilligently do the protocol, the puny bucks is well worth the service.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
blue.. as you already know..
if you have one of the only lawyers in town doing some work for you.. it makes it hard for someone else to hire them to sue you ( moi )
$200 for the annual minutes is cheap insurance.. plus they remember .. i don't Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I agree Mike. There's one other factor. If you take the time to talk to the lawyer at least once a year, and send him his check....he's a lot more likely to actually care about taking your case if you actually needed him. He'll fight a lot harder to prove that he's done a good job with the minutes and formalities. If you do it yourself, he'll be showing you where all the holes are and simply charge you a ton more, thus making up ten years worth of checks all on one case.
We lose either way...you are probably doing it the right way now! I'm still hooked up with my lawyer buddies. I really like my "system".
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
blue, I was going to wait until I read "Positioning" to weigh in on this again, but I just ordered it, and started reading E-Myth Contractor. So it will be a week or so. So far, I still like Moondance Construction. Moondance is nothing at all wierd for Santa Cruz, and construction is what I do. Creations depicts more than I'm willing to deliver. To me that means something new, and restoration is really making things look like they used to. I appreciate you taking the time and interest to discuss this, and I'm looking forward to reading the book. I'm always open to change if someone has a better idea than mine.
Allen in Santa Cruz
blue-
Is that book called 'The New Posistioning'
By Jack Trout with Steve Rivkin?
Be a MadDog... ... ... "Live Free, not Die"
Razz, the one I read was called:
Positioning: The Battle for Your Mindby Al Ries, Jack Trout
I'm going to check out the latest one that you just mentioned though. The original will become a classic if it isn't already in marketing classes.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Bucksnort, I actually was impressed when I first saw your name "Village Woodworks, Inc." It has a romantic ring to it and it tells a story. It caused me to have a vision...I imagined a smalltown woodworker who was willing to accept his life as a craftsman. That name definitly pigeonholes you, but since you aren't trying to build a massive multi national corporation, it fits you well.
Now it's up to you to live up to that image. If you read the book Positioning, you'll find out that you are halfway there!
Congrats!
Moondance, take note of what I just said to BB. His name inspired me...so does the name Moondance. The last part of your company name doesn't live up to the expectations that your opening word implies.
Don't be ordinary.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Mike....for gawd's sake...your last name is Smith! LoL!
Your personal identifcation with the company is both a strength as well as a weakness. It's certainly safe to say that you can grow a huge company using your personal name, but it's also foolish to pass up a chance to make some sort of statement with the name of the company/product. I think I know which book I have to send you...instead of Ann Coulter.
You haven't read Positioning yet, have you?
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
got "Positioning" on my bedside
also... "Selling the Invisible"
also.... and you gotta read this one..
"Guerilla Marketing"
& "The Goal" (remember when we goup-read that one with Sonny ? )
& the "E-Myth"
'course...
i'm taking a sentimental trip tonite with "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas"....
honest...
the USPS will reopen tomorrow & your copy of "Building with an Attitude "
will finally be on the way
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I thought you were one of the guys that chimed in about postioning, and I don't disagree about you having your name on the side of the truck. I just want to alert Isa about the pros and cons about doing so.
I'm of the opinion that you could do both. Isa could use his old name, then place his under it...kinda like this. Lumberjack Milling Co. featuring Paul Bunyan, Master Jacker.
Or something like that. It's a way to keep his old name, while putting his real name on the signs. There's no sense tossing out an established identity.
Smith though...cmon... they're more common than Jones!
I'm drooling to get that book though.
What is guerilla marketing about? I think I'll put that one on my list too.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
It's been many years since I read "Gorilla Marketing", but what stayed with me is that creativity is central and not to worry about whether everyone else is doing the type of marketing you are considering. Doing the uncommon is sometimes best-less competition. Doing what you know you should do-with creativity is key.
As I recall they had some great ideas in the book.
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
blue.....
this logo is all over town.. it's recognized in two counties...
View Image
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 2/21/2005 11:29 pm ET by Mike Smith
Mike, I know you're doing it right and I wouldn't mess with your established logo or name.
I would change professions though and go into production framing!
Yuck Yuck.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Hey Blue... I'm pleased to hear how much you liked "Positioning", I wish I got a commission on all the recommendations I've made for it, one of my all time favorite marketing books. Mike's suggestion of "Guerrilla Marketing" is another good one. I'll be curious to se whether the "New Positioning" is as good as the original.
PaulB, thanks again for recommending that book. I'm sorry I couldn't remember that it was you who had offered it, and I'm glad that you reminded me. I like to give credit where credit is due.
I'm sure the later book will be good.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Blue,
And everybody else too,
Help.
I, too, am looking at the future of being able to sell the company. Or should I say, Companies?
I am currently looking at a 'holding' company name of S am T Technologies, which will not be sold, and a first startup name of Crystal Basements. I plan to sell, or partner out, Crystal Basements as soon as the next biz is profitable enough to support me in my desired lifestyle... (gratuitous elipsis)
My target market for Crystal Basements is the owner/builder segment.
As a reality check for me, what associations, feelings, etc. does the name bring up in all of you out there in BT land? I want to see if it arouses the feelings I am hoping it will.
?
?
SamT
Sam,
To me "Crystal" means 2 things.
1. It shatters
2. It is clear.
Neither of these will your basements do or be. Right?
How about:
"Gibralter Basements: Tough as the rock"
Bowz
sam... i think you will need a lot of supporting material just to educate people to your product
IE: CB doesn't do anything for my "vision thing"Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
To me...........Crystal means New Age stuff.
It doesn't do anything for the basement thing, at least for me.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
We are ambitious! That's good, attitude adjustment coming up...
What's he got left in his euphoria guys? A year!
Keep that attitude up Sam, even if things get tough ok?
Crystal denotes glass and fragility. What I would suggest is that you are limiting your company to 10% of the market that enjoys heavy glass emphasis and architecturally stark surroundings. Does this make sense?
Crystal Springs (mineral Water), Crystal's Auto Tinting, Crystal Clear Window Washing.. they all work.
How about Artisan Basements, HardCoreBasements, Outrageous Basements, Best Basements, Basement Creativity, Lower Level Refinishing, Art Underground-Basement Refinishing.
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
"We are ambitious! That's good, attitude adjustment coming up...
What's he got left in his euphoria guys? A year!
Keep that attitude up Sam, even if things get tough ok?"
IF things get tough?!?!?
Been outa work for three years. Teo with cancer. Up to the tips of my cowlick in debt. I works hard to get my 'tude up here 24/7. Not that I succeed 24/7, mind you.
This place is one of my main stays. If it wasn't for you guys...
SamT
Those with irrepressable attitude will make it eventually. It was a sincere compliment, even if worded badly.
Good Luck with it Sam... You will succeed, I don't have any doubts.
Give em hell!
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Heres a name for ya...
CASH CONSTRUCTIONits motto
"Cutting corners NOT cutting Boards"
"Competeting against YOU on every project"
There were some guys in Athens, Georgia, where I used to live, who named their company "Clown Construction," with a picture of a clown on their logo. Their tag line was 'How hard can it be?"I guess they thought it was pretty funny. And i can only assume the results spoke for themselves.
When we started our company, we wanted it to be S D Builders, LLC, where S and D correspond to my and my partner's first names. The state business registration authority decided that the name wasn't unique, so I told our attorney's secretary to replace S D with Standarek, assuming she understood we wanted to keep the ... Builders, LLC part. Well, lo and behold, we get the paperwork back, and we are Stan Darek, LLC!!! I wanted to shoot the lady! At this point I'm really torn whether I like the name or not, but for the time being we're going to live with it. The only thing I really dislike is having to explain that Darek is not my last name, as in "can I speak to Mr. Darek"...
When I had business cards printed, I thought of listing what I do - looked too cluttered.
Then, I just put my name and number big enough that you don't need glasses to read it.
Folks seem to like it, and remember it.
6 16 17 97 99
Isa, there are several thought processes going on in my head regarding your latest endeavor. First, did anyone know you by the other name? Second, are you switching identities?
Since you stated your goals as "I want to make a good living and take a vacation or two", that indicates that this latest idea is designed to help you to further your goals....meaning that without it, you won't achieve them?
You've got to analyze your long term goals and create a position to capture that.
I've recommended a book called Positioning to Moondance. IF you haven't printed the signs, get that book first and read the chapter on naming the company after yourself.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Isa, a name is only important in terms of the image that it projects in the area in which you work. Some names work, some don't.
The boys are right about trying to sell a business with your own name in it...but not everyone is concerned with that sort of thing. Typically it is a sign of honesty and integrity to have your own name for the business. Means you have nothing to hide.
We chose GardenStructure.com because it contained keywords, which would drive traffic to the site. It is too generic for my taste, but one can also be pidgeon-holed by a name as well. WinterburnGroup is now becoming the design side of the company-which is what Winterburn is known for doing best (me). That was my second business name. The first was bad and you will never ever hear me speak word of it. It attracted nothing but people seeking something for free and didn't work.
Careful that your name doesn't limit your choices later on.
That's my 12 cents.
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Lawrence, your name and ensuing mission statement works for me.
Your secondary names that support the names are just as important to creating that image.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Miscallaneous ramblings and feedback on the subject.. After reading all the replys
Sometimes a personal name can help sell. Lindal Cedar Homes. The Lindal family could decide to sell, but tht name is what the biz is. It weould take a new owner years to re-establish it as Billy Bobs Cedar Homes.
We werer once asked to build a Lindal like home and to make it as clse as I could to look like a Lindal, we didnt get the job. Someone else did. I was called out there for refinihing some wood work, The owners called it a Lindal
A local appliance place "smiths Appliance" hasnt had a smith owner or employee in 20 years, biz is doing great.
One of the locals goes by his name, I lost a bid to him recently. I overheard the onwers at a home show talking about the project. We are having "Joe smith" build our home........wow was the reply. bugged me because I do a better product and I was under his bid, but not the cheapest.
At the last home show we did, three weeks ago, we put a combination sign up
Joe Isamemons Nail Benders Construction ( of course none of that is the real name) . At the home show people would ask , are you Isa, wow we are meeting with the top dog himself ??? So I started to see the importance of my name being visible as well.
However I do want to keep the biz name going as well, and for now
1) it is established in the area
2) unfortuantely no one in the family wnats to pound nails the rest of ther lives , so it staying as a famly biz is not gonna happen ( one son headed to med school, the ohter to .........well who knows.......changes every term.
so the resale is the option and the biz name would help.
now a new twist. Trademark a name
I mentioined some fake names above. And right now , I wont mention my biz name becasue it is unique and we are working on trademarking it. It is not trademarked so I need to get it in fast. But in nearlyevery state , the name I bet is there with someone else. In fact Untied rental told us that they had over 60 "Nial Pounders" in ther national data base.
we are currently battaling with our state because our unique name is recently copied, again, kind of . We are resgisterred state wide.
so Instead of Nail Pounders Construction ( not real name) they allowed someone to register as Nail Pounders Const. Company. Seriously, by abreviating construction and adding company the state said they are not the same , but the attorney told me if it was tradmarked and I could show where they are infringing on my business then I could make them change. call them up and they answer the phone and they dont abreiviate the name and they dont say company. But they are about 200 miles away, and my attorney siad to me , "so how much do you want to spend on this"
3 years ago a hack did pick up our name, ran into all kind of problems, and we were getting calls from creidtors, several counties away. It took a few weeks and several $$$$ to fix that, we couldnt go after him because he was first not leaglly registered, and then of course went bankrupt. I should have at that time trademarked our name.
so if you got a good name, you might want to trade mark it
So I do plan on haveing both names out there soon, Isamemons Nail Pounders, so thta people can recognize me, know who they are dealing with and if I do sell the biz, someone can carry on with just the nail pounders
so thatnks for all the tips, ideas
and good book recomendations
Edited 2/22/2005 1:40 pm ET by Isamemon
Lindal has successfully built nationwide (perhaps global) recognition of their name.
It's like McDonalds.
It's a little different than Ron Johnson Carpenter. Why would anyone want to buy this business?
I wish I had a reprint, or at least could recall where I read the article(s).
We need Gerrald Hayes in here, I'm sure he has some useful info on this topic.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
I think it comes down to what kinda biz U want it to be.
My Dad used Buck Construction ...
I liked it enough to keep it.
Sounds "solid" to me. Easy to pronounce. Simple enough.
also ... being my own name ... I'd like to think it shows that personal service I sell. I make it a point to sell myself as a craftsman. My subs are "my" subs. Every phase of construction has my hand print on it. That sorta thing.
I don't want a big conglomerate that I can sell someday ... I want a nice little company people can trust in and expect the very best from. Plus ... it's cool to see yer own name on the van ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
thanks Jeff
Im not trying to make a huge business or anything else, but now that my kids dont want to be part of it ( at least now) I have to look at it as my retirement nest egg
that is why I will look at both names such as Joe Isa's Nail Bender Construction.
If YOU are the business, ie you several employees you really don't have anything to sell in the way of a business.It is not until the buiness gets big enough that you have employess that are doing the non-construction stuff. Such as esitmating, selling, designing, office managing.Then you have an ongoing business that can be sold.Interestingly I saw an add in the paper for a replacement window company. Windows on the World or something like that. Said "under new ownership".Makes me wonder why that they put that in. In the old ownership had down a good job why advertise it.If they had a bad rep, why use the same name and have to fight it.
Bowz, Mike, Erik, Lawrence,
Thanks guys, I will give it some hard thought.
That's the reason I asked. 'Cuz to me, "crystal" means accurate, sharp, symetrical, hi-tech. Electronic background, ya know?
I will be starting out doing new construction footings and foundations. Around here that means basements.
Trying to find something that resonates with the clients desires for a foundation that won't settle or crack and a basement that will be dry and comfortable.
My "30 second commercial":
I build footings and foundations.
Basements.
Like a rock.
I chose this specialty because I was tired of seeing all the mistakes commonly made.
When I'm done, you will live confidant that your basement walls won't settle, crack, or leak. You will know that you won't be having to pay the framers extra, because my walls are plumb, level, and square.
I don't cut corners. I do everything right, so I'm not cheap. In fact, because of the care and quality I put into my work, I'm probably one of the most expensive.
Try putting that in three words or less!
Gibraltar Basements: Like a Rock has possibilities. Maybe Rock Hard Foundations? Or Hard Rock Footings? Hard Rock Bottoms? hehehe. Rock and Roll is Here to Stay! Oops, taken.
I guess it's back to the Teepee time for me. Fell free to join in. Hint, hint.
SamT
sam... the most successful foundation company around here is named..
"Cement Heads"....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Close Enough Concrete6 16 17 97 99
In the movie Clerks... Dun Already Home Improvements... (the roofer), thought it was a brilliant name.
When I first started out we were so cocky we wanted to call ourselves "Wood Butchers Inc."
"You don't buy nails at a deli-don't let a butcher build your deck!", actually used that saying in an ad about 20 years ago.
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
yeah, cocky is , as cocky does..
ah , yute !Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Here are a couple of business names for you:Counterfitters (Countertop install business I knew of in Colorado) or Counter-Intelligence (probably trademarked somewhere).Edit to add: "Counterfitters" had logo and biz cards that looked like monopoly money with some trade images worked in.
Edited 2/23/2005 11:09 pm ET by basswood
Lawrence, I swear, we have a framing crew running around this town with the name "Hacks 'R' Us" on the side of the truck. When I see it, I'll snap a pic.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Years ago I was partners with my brother. As much as I love my brother I couldnt stand his business practices. We finally split up and I let him keep the family name on his business. Then I had to make up a suitable name for people to write checks to.
Also I didnt want people to know I was a relation to the other guy in town even though our businesses took different paths. I do custom woodworking and remodeling, he's a roofing contractor.
I get all my work by referral so the name is never an issue. People call me and ask for me by name and most never know my business name until they have to write that first check.