I’ve grown weary of the quirks of our concrete countertop and am looking for something to replace it with. I thought soapstone might be a good choice but am not sure about all the choices out there. Some are quarried in the U.S. and some types are imported from Brazill, India, Finland, etc. Is any type more durable than the next?
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Replies
I have a friend in FL with ~2 yr old soapstone counters. They are not without quirks themselves. Beautiful to look at but they do require periodic "oiling" to keep their original sheen. Not a major chore, or expense, other than having to clear the counters 2-3 x per year and wiping them down with the recommended stuff (not sure what the stuff is) but something to consider before you dive in. I believe their stone was imported but can't see how country of origin has any bearing on the physical properties of the material.
Different areas of the world have different types of sedimentation, though I can't even remember if soapstone is sedimentary or not. Soapstones vary (probably among other things) in the amount of talc in them. Some are harder than others, and the colors vary.I think it is mineral oil used on soapstone. To keep it from going sour, like a vegetable oil might.
Soapstone is a metamorphic rock. It's "soapyness" is due to the fact that it's mineral grains have been flattened and are well aligned due to it's having been squeezed during metamorphisis. I'd agree that geologic processes are highly variable anywhere that you go. My point was that it would be difficult to say that a soapstone from one country, say Italy, is any different than a soapstone from say Egypt, just as a soapstone from Virginia may, or may not be different than a soapstone from Vermont. You can't simply say I want "Brazilian soapstone" and expect to get the same thing where ever you shopped, unless all soapstone from Brazil came from the same quarry or geologic formation.
What are the quirks you speak of?
The staining, chipping (more so than say a stone countertop). The funky mineral deposits from water that seem to find even the smallest little pocket to accumulate. Those are just a few of the things.
In a related question, (is this a hijack?), Ive acquired some old chem lab soapstone table tops. Does anyone have a recommend for removing the old enamel or whatever paint on them? Ive tried the usual solvents w/o success.
Stash
have you tried sanding?
might try 60 or 80 grit with a random orbital sander, then working your way up to 200 grit.
Edited 2/5/2007 4:48 pm ET by MrSQL
Any strong paint remover. The nasty stuff with methylene chloride works best.
There is another material those chem. lab. tops were made of that is not a soapstone. I think it is a manmade product and still available. I'm sorry, I can't remember the name of the stuff, you could try doing a web search. If they are the manmade tops, you might damage them with the paint remover.
The manmade stuff is called Fireslate. There was a discussion about it (and its problems--like after people put the recommended tung oil on it and the film blistered and so on) when I first started on this website a couple years ago. You could probably do a search and find the discussion.
Some lab tops are black and look like soapstone, but are acutally a composite with lots of asbestos in it (durable and fireproof....can't ask for anything more!).
Just make sure you know it isn't asbestos before you go sanding and cuting into it...
Ithaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
Thanks for the thought, but its def. soapstone. Ill try sanding once I bring it in from the back 40, and up the solvent level. Thanks all.
Stash
Some lab tops are black and look like soapstone, but are acutally a composite with lots of asbestos in it (durable and fireproof....can't ask for anything more!).
Just make sure you know it isn't asbestos before you go sanding and cuting into it...
That would have been good information for me to have 10 years ago. I picked up a slab of that stuff at my university's surplus warehouse and cut about six inches off of it with a circular saw and an abrasive blade to make a rough and ready desktop. I still have it, I could have it tested. Of course at this point there isn't much point in finding out.
Stash- DO NOT sand them, it was quite common for the older benchtops to be made of asbestos, I have never seen a soapstone one.
I will proceed with extreme caution. Is the manmade stuff a close enough look-alike to soapstone? There are holes for plumbing drilled on my slabs, and the broken edges look like natural stone, but I will be careful. Thanx.
Stash
We like our soapstone countertops, obtained from Maine Soapstone. The stone is from Brazil, as I recall. It is quite hard for soapstone, which varies in hardness. It is very easy to care for. As explained to me, it will eventually oxidize to a very dark (almost black) gray from the original gray color. If you oil it with mineral oil, that supposedly speeds up the oxidation. It's not as hard as granite and can scratch, but any scratches can be sanded out with a ROS. It is extremely dense and doesn't stain. We just wipe it with damp cloth and it looks great. It has a matte surface similar to honed granite. We've lived with it for about 8 months and still love it. There are some variations available, including some stones with more veining than others.
I installed soapstone that I got from Virginia; picked it up myself so I also saved on shipping: [ http://www.alberenesoapstone.com/about/ ] . They were a great company to work with, but a bit slow. I'm not a pro, but was able to do all the installation myself. I would definately do it again if given a chance, but this time I would get the "honed" stone rather than the "guaged" stone. With the guaged stone, I had to sand it smooth; with honed, it comes already smooth.
I'd pick the stone that you like and don't worry about where it is from. I believe the characteristics should be more or less the same.
By the way: what sold me on soapstone is that lab bench tops are made of soapstone and are quite durable for that purpose. I was told that granite will actually absorb water when a hot pot is placed on it and leave a ring for about a week.
It does seem like we should re-apply the ager/sealer now after about 6 months [although it doesn't look bad].
hey...I am just about ready to order my diy soapstone from soapstone.com . My plan is to make templates from 1/4 ply,cut the stone with a diamond blade in my circ saw,beltsand,random orbit sand or 4" grinder with diamond blade.Any tips on seems,plumbing holes or anything you experienced?
thanks
Straight cuts:
do it outside
use diamond blade in a circular saw
Support stone with sacrificial wood suports (i.e. you can cut into them slightly on the last pass)
straight edge guide clamped to stone
shallow passes of about 1/2" each with a final pass of 1/4"
Curved cuts:
jig saw with carborundum blade (go slow)
then sand to the exact line
OR
plywood template
straight carbide tipped router bit with guide bushing
shallow passes of 1/8" or so
Finishing Edge:
carbide tipped router bit taking shallow passes
be careful where slabs adjoin (you can stay back a bit and finish them off after instalation)
Sanding:
Random orbital sander
starting with 60 or 80 up to 220 grit
can use water if you like
Seams:
use angle grinder to "scarify" the glue surface
get a knife grade epoxy mastic [Tenax]
dry fit on counters first
shim with metal flashing until adjoining slabs align on same plane
apply epoxy to both surfaces
push together
let harden (can help it go faster with a heat gun if the epoxy/hardener reaction is slow starting)
sand
seal with an ager/sealer http://www.defusco.com/Glues:-Epoxy,-Polyester,-etc.-Ager-Sealer/c82_503/p2546/AGER---1/4-LITER/product_info.html
or http://www.defusco.com/Glues:-Epoxy,-Polyester,-etc.-Hydrex-Sealer/c82_502/p1436/TENAX-IMPREGNATOR-AND-SEALER---1/4-LITER/product_info.html
For plumbing holes, I don't have any direct experience because mine came pre-drilled; Try: http://www.defusco.com/Diamond-Products-Drilling-Solutions-for-Stone,-Ti/c25_497/index.html
When I installed my kitchen sink I had a plywood sub base for the stone, so I just routed a recess in the plywood for the sink so it was exactly flush with the top of the sub base. then I put the stone on that with clear silicone.
Stone was "glued" to the plywood sub base with several beads of clear silicone. You definately want to dry fit everything first, because it's hard to pull up once it gets that hydraulic seal with the silicone.
Edited 2/6/2007 3:34 pm ET by MrSQL
Some good info there.
I'm going to add that when butting two slabs that a slight bevel to one or both slabs is better than a true butt.
Trying to squeeze out the knife grade epoxy to make a hidden joint is nearly impossible.
I have rain forest green soapstone with a lot of white veining in the slab, so the black epoxy can be noticeable.
"For instance, Hillary Clinton said in a recent visit that ethanol is 'a perfect example' of how we can wean ourselves from foreign oil. Of course, she has voted against measures promoting ethanol production not once, not twice, but 17 times during her six years in the Senate." The Federalist Patriot
in my experience the epoxy was more-or-less clear and reflected the color of the stone. the actual seam was quite thin. If it were me, I would not emphasize the seam with bevel. "Tenax crystal" mastic is clear clear clear, so I would use that if I were concerned about the seam visibility. You can also sprinkle dust from the stone in the mastic to help it reflect the color.
Mine was jet black, supplied from the stone supplier.
Most of my seams are thin, but have a couple that I just couldn't get the leverage to be able to squeeze out the epoxy.
That's when I thought if they had a slight bevel the top could butt together without having to squeeze out as much epoxy."For instance, Hillary Clinton said in a recent visit that ethanol is 'a perfect example' of how we can wean ourselves from foreign oil. Of course, she has voted against measures promoting ethanol production not once, not twice, but 17 times during her six years in the Senate." The Federalist Patriot
"For instance, Hillary Clinton said in a recent visit that ethanol is 'a perfect example' of how we can wean ourselves from foreign oil. Of course, she has voted against measures promoting ethanol production not once, not twice, but 17 times during her six years in the Senate." The Federalist PatriotI guess my question is whether Ethanol is really a "perfect example" of a fuel alternative. Especially in this country that has taken the corn route towards producing it. So much of the energy involved in the production of corn ethanol is derived from petroleum. From the fertilizers and transport of the raw material to the energy needed to process it and deliver it petroleum based products are used. Is there even a net energy gain?
Not fully understanding the parameters in which Hillary voted down measures that would promote Ethanol production I'd be curious to know what other stipulations might have been attached to those proposals that would justify their rejection.
how'd politics get into this thread? Figures..lol. And with plumbbill...he's a great plumber but as far as his Republican politics and plumbing goes...he probably tried to fix the "Water-gate Leak"...lol
Greek poet Archilochus said: "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing"! From The Hedgehog & The Fox ~~~~ An essay on Tolstoy's view of history ~~ by Isaiah Berlin
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=85239.12"For instance, Hillary Clinton said in a recent visit that ethanol is 'a perfect example' of how we can wean ourselves from foreign oil. Of course, she has voted against measures promoting ethanol production not once, not twice, but 17 times during her six years in the Senate." The Federalist Patriot
hey...I was just kidding bro : )
Greek poet Archilochus said: "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing"! From The Hedgehog & The Fox ~~~~ An essay on Tolstoy's view of history ~~ by Isaiah Berlin
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
He!! I know that ;-)
But, I really do need to change the tag line--- too many people that don't go to the Tav think I'm posting that in a regular thread.
& as far as water gate goes if I would have been on the crew there wouldn't have been any leaks. ;-þ"For instance, Hillary Clinton said in a recent visit that ethanol is 'a perfect example' of how we can wean ourselves from foreign oil. Of course, she has voted against measures promoting ethanol production not once, not twice, but 17 times during her six years in the Senate." The Federalist Patriot
If you do a search here on " soapstone" you will find it to be quite popular.
Here's a thread with some links to my Steatite ( soapstone) counters.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=63978.4
If you can work with heavy hardwoods then you can work with soapstone.
"For instance, Hillary Clinton said in a recent visit that ethanol is 'a perfect example' of how we can wean ourselves from foreign oil. Of course, she has voted against measures promoting ethanol production not once, not twice, but 17 times during her six years in the Senate." The Federalist Patriot
I made a kitchen table top with soapstone 2 years ago. I actually prefer the material to our granite counters. There are many types of soapstone, even from one country. I got samples of six different types from soapstones.com and experimented with them before committing to a particular one. All but one sample were from Brazil. Their hardest, blackest, most expensive stone is from India; they call is Cobra soapstone. Their Brazilian stones range from slightly soft to very soft and react differently to mineral oil when applied. I have found that all but the naturally black stone will darken with mineral oil applied, but they soon lighten back up. I like the dull grey look; if you want it black and shiny all the time, be prepared to apply mineral oil regularly (like every month or so). As others have said, it's easy to scratch, but easy to sand scratches out, or just apply more oil and the scratches blend right in and disappear. You can put hot pots on it and spill virtually anything on it with abandon. It sounds funny, but I enjoy the tactile quality of the honed surface, more like well-sanded wood than stone.
Conrad
I probably shouldn't say this, but....................................
By pure accident as I was using my drill press boring steel & needed a spacer I grabbed a leftover chunk of my soapstone.
I use power steering fluid with my drill pres when using metal----- the fluid got on the stone & BAM it's dark like a fresh coat of mineral oil, but doesn't seem to wear off like mineral oil does.
That was 6 months ago have not put any more fluid on it & still dark as can be in my garage."For instance, Hillary Clinton said in a recent visit that ethanol is 'a perfect example' of how we can wean ourselves from foreign oil. Of course, she has voted against measures promoting ethanol production not once, not twice, but 17 times during her six years in the Senate." The Federalist Patriot
We've worked with both Virginia soapstone and Brazilian, Seems to me that the virginian is grittier and harder than the brazillian, no difference in wear though. Some of the "Ice Flower" brazillian resists the oil more than the "natural"
It looks crazy but we use a pump up garden sprayer to direct a small stream of water on our regular skill saws and routers when we're working the stone and it keeps the dust down and cools the blades. Need a good cord and a bombproof GFI but we've never popped a GFI or gotten even a tingle doing it.
Just hope the insurance companys safety auditor doesn't stop by when we're doing it.
Remember to wear a good respirator when working the stuff, it is not good for the lungs to breath the dust.
Seaming it we get a special soapstone seaming epoxy from the soap stone supplier, tape up all the smooth surfaces and most especially the BOTTOM of the joint before applying the epoxy. The epoxy will flow for a long time before it snaps and will run right out the bottom of the joint two or three minutes after you have it leveled up just the way you like it. It seems like the stuff sets up harder than the stone so don't leave much of a "bump" over the seam. And of course don't oil it until after you are happy with the epoxy finish.
LOL
Iv'e been trying to kill my old Skill bench top 10" saw with leg attatchments for years.
Dropping in a 10" diamond wet blade & running the garden hose into the side of it wouldn't kill it either.
Ripped all my 1.25" x 6" soapstone back splashes with it. total of 54' still won't die.
Noisy azz blade wobble direct drive, I swear it's Chucky from childs play."For instance, Hillary Clinton said in a recent visit that ethanol is 'a perfect example' of how we can wean ourselves from foreign oil. Of course, she has voted against measures promoting ethanol production not once, not twice, but 17 times during her six years in the Senate." The Federalist Patriot
Well don't try and open the 2MB one...sorry.
I fabricated all my own SS, I love the stuff!!! I've had all kinda counter tops and SS is by far my favorite! Warm to look at, easy to care for, scratchs sand out easily and if you fabricate it your self like I did you can't beat the price!!!
One thing though..its the heaviest stone I've ever dealt with in my life so have help getting it in your house!!!!!!!!!!!
One bit of advice too. If possible, do all your cutting outside...whewww.
Its like volcanic ash all over the place but...it makes yer skin as smooth as a babies bottom being its almost the same as talcum powder you buy in the store..."almost".
Have fun...I did.
Be well
andy...
Greek poet Archilochus said: "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing"! From The Hedgehog & The Fox ~~~~ An essay on Tolstoy's view of history ~~ by Isaiah Berlin
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Looks great Andy. I bookmarked soapstones.com the first time you posted those pics. Soon I will start remodeling my kitchen, and have been planning on using concrete for the counters but man that soapstone looks nice. I like the low-maintenance aspect too. Any chance you could give a ballpark price on the materials?
Mike Maines
Thanks Mike...Sorry..I don't recall how much it cost me but I DO remember thinking how cheap it was compared to everything else mainly cause you can do it yourself. Call the company..they'll give a number right there on the phone. I have to be honest...its real easy to fabricate. Its just dusty is all. You don't even need a diamond blade at all. I used a cheap $5 carbo blade from HD. I made a few passes and it was done. Same with the sink cut out. Carbo jig saw blade. The soapstone company will sell you the adhesive. If you do it in your house be sure to put plastic taped to all archways to keep the dust contained and a good dust mask.
I had one door opened to the outside with a fan in the opposite end of the room blowing most of it out.
The reason I did it inside was cause that island was huge and I had help getting it in the day it came. I think there was like a half a dozen of us and it was still a real struggle. My house was all under construction anyway so...
Concrete seems interesting but go for the SS dude...I think you'll be much happier in the end not to mention "resale" when you go and sell your house.
BE well
andy...
Greek poet Archilochus said: "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing"! From The Hedgehog & The Fox ~~~~ An essay on Tolstoy's view of history ~~ by Isaiah Berlin
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I've got concrete counter tops in my house. We did 'em almost 7 years ago and used a black powder dye in the mix. Looks very much like the soapstone.
The good thing was that 12LF of 2" thick counter top cost me something like $400 altogther with formwork and such. I had a blast making 'em. They've held up very well, but its definitely something you have to prepare the end user for. Concrete is impossible to protect against any and all staining. It WILL stain eventually. Have a party, drink a few too many gin and tonics and leave a cut lime on it. You'll have a shadow in the morning. Forever. The first one of those the wifey did, she was almost in tears. 7 years later, there are just layers and layers of stains and such (lemon juice here, lime rinds there) and we've grown to like the "patina". I do have doubts that a future homeowner would be as attached, though.
The next kitchen I build, though, I'll probably use soapstone. The thing I liked about the concrete is the home-workability. Sounds like soapstone is about the same.
Good thread...
Couldn't you just polish out the lime spot with diamond pads?
I have some tomato spots on my counters I am planning on polishing...
Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!
Is that the dining room table or kitchen table you're using for a work table?
Is that the dining room table or kitchen table you're using for a work table?<<<<<<<<<LOL...funny you should ask. Its the one my puters sitting on right now up here in my office. The legs you see were left over from a deck
I did...they're CCA newl posts upside down..I painted green. The top apron were birch ply scraps as is the top I stained with a home made redish I made for a book case the scraps came from. The edges of the top are a real nice
1 1/2" cap molding I used on some base molding. Been dragging that table around for about ten years now. It never seems to die...lol.Greek poet Archilochus said: "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing"! From The Hedgehog & The Fox ~~~~ An essay on Tolstoy's view of history ~~ by Isaiah Berlinhttp://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 2/6/2007 11:08 pm ET by andybuildz
I'm probably going to get zapped by this, but I'm increasingly weary of reading about problems with esoteric countertop materials that never were appropriate for that use in the first place. Countertops, to be maintenance free and sanitary, should never be porous, yet so many wish to use porous minerals for that purpose. Next time, consider bamboo (growing out of favor for floors, so should be available for counters) or balsa wood -- you'd be the first on the block. We poor folks have no problem with Wilsonart, and we have more time for other things as a result.
BARMIL
While I'm more than all in favor of what you're saying I do have to say that porus products can be made far less porus with natural material/finishes and to give up on ideas that have future potential is like saying the world is flat so you don't fear falling off someday. I'm assuming you're speaking about "concrete" tops? I think they have their place....not in my kitchen "ever" but for some they prefere to experiment and try things out and thats how future products or solutions come about IMHO so I wouldn't shoot them down...just discusss the issues.
Some people really can't afford granite or soapstone or marble or whatever so they shoot for things they can fabricsate themselves right out of a bag and thers's nothing wrong with that. You might say necsessities the mother of invention. Or...not enough money is the mother of invention...lol..which is why a lot of what I've learned as little as that is and a lot of the procucts I've dealt with and rearranged if you will came/comes from that factor : )
Greek poet Archilochus said: "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing"! From The Hedgehog & The Fox ~~~~ An essay on Tolstoy's view of history ~~ by Isaiah Berlin
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I put in soapstone countertop for my kitchen as well. It was my first dealing with any kind of stone fabrication. My mistakes were:
1. The slabs were fairly smooth and flat at the warehouse, but I tried to sand out some scratches later and the slabs lost the flat surface. My slabs have what looks like spots of quartz that would not sand down in same rate as rest of the surface. This goes the same when sanding the epoxy. Tape the edge and try to have the least squeeze out. I tried to cut out the squeeze out with a razor blade but it made more scratches.
2. The showroom slabs with middle price were uniform black without veins. The actual stocks all had some veins in them, and they don't disappear with mineral oil. The most expensive slabs may be better if you want least veins.
3. I left the edge as square, just sanding lightly to get out the sharpness. This kind of edge may chip easier than rounded edge. Even a small chip does not disappear with oil treatment. You may have to sand these down.
Having said this, I like my soapstone and would do it again for my own use. The kitchen was clean and I hated to clean it again so I did all cutting and sanding outside. The edges of each slab don't meet as cleanly as fabricating it after all slabs are installed, but the mistakes gave it a rustic or used look.
It's been 3 years and the counter has not darkened uniformly. The surface next to the range has darkened because of cooking oil that splashed on them, but if you clean the surface everyday with soap, it may not darken in your life time. The rest of surface is about middle way between original gray and oil treated dark. The edge surface is still more gray than anything else. Even with these faults, I like the stone for the fact that it does not jump out at you and it is most user friendly, as far as I can tell.
Eventually your stone will darken naturally, but without oil treatment it will be spotty.
Around my cook top is permantly dark now.
The oil as I was told from the supplier speeds up the natural darkening process.
If you look back a few posts where I made a comment about power steering fluid---- woo hoo works great, but I don't think I would use that on a food bearing surface."For instance, Hillary Clinton said in a recent visit that ethanol is 'a perfect example' of how we can wean ourselves from foreign oil. Of course, she has voted against measures promoting ethanol production not once, not twice, but 17 times during her six years in the Senate." The Federalist Patriot
Hey Ted,
we did soapstone in our new kitchen , its been about a year now and we love it.. no worries about hot pots or stains..
All soapstone will become black with age, and applying mineral oil just quickens the oxidation process.
we choose Cobra soapstone from India , because it was the hardest of all the samples we got from numerous companies. we ended up buying from Mtexteira out of NJ.