Hey guys-
I’ve been fooling around with Softplan for a bit now, (Its really cool!) and though I’m far from an experienced user, I’ve found that it lacks some capability in the cabinet design aspect.
I’ve done some searching through here, (And will continue to) but I’m wondering what the old hands with this stuff recommend for supplemental software. The Softplan folks mentioned sketchup, but I’d love to get something that I can use for making shop drawings, material lists as well as importing the forms into Softplan for the 3D modeling.
Here’s a jpeg of my first project, (everyone loves some eye candy) and it’s great for getting a feel for the space, but changing the cabinets into a face framed beaded design hasn’t happened, and according to the folks at Softplan, I need to import the 3D files myself.
Any ideas? Can you all point me to the most pertinent threads that I’m sure exist here? The ones I’ve seen so far seemed a bit old, or I missed the ones that answered this question.
Thanks!
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Edited 1/20/2009 5:38 pm ET by Lateapex911
Replies
You got me. I've been using Softplan for 16 years and have not delved into 3d as much as you have there. I mostly use it for 2d drawings.
Nice!
John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
“You can either wait for the storm to pass, or you can learn to dance in the rain.”
"I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office."—Washington, D.C., May 12, 2008
jake... piffen has the most experience with softplan.....chief can pretty well detail the cabinets... but a working knowledge of su would be a good thingMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
>>Mike Hussein Smith
I thought I had seen everything.
kk where ya been ?Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Great to read ya Mike! That middle name should be in all caps with a couple of exclamation points at the end to really emphisize it. Congrats to you fellows on the Nov. 4th events.
Now back to the topic at hand. Are you a SP user yourself?
k
Mike is a Chief user.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
interesting...... i think that Chief and Softplan drive each other's development teams.... kinda like the Yankees & Red Sox
first Chief makes a good move.. then a bad move.. then a great move !
and SP is right there with an answer..
i'm using version X2 of Chief.. been using it since version 5 in '97Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
>>first Chief makes a good move.. then a bad move.. then a great move !
and SP is right there with an answer..
Well Mike, I guess I could go off on a tangent with that one, but surfice it to say that is what is great about competition. It makes everyone better. I bet you're a die hard Cheif man.
k
I cannot comment on Softplan and cabinets.
I am a new user of Chief Architect. From what I can see of your work in Softplan, Chief will do the same as regards cabinets. Sketchup, in which I can model anything I can see or imagine, integrates with Chief (and probably with Softplan as well) so that you can readily model anything and bring it into your primary architectural package.
But I actually build and install cabinets, and neither my Sketchup nor my Chief Architect will deliver me the goods, when it comes to cut lists, buy lists, or CNC integration. For that level of work, I go with eCabinets software.
Chief and Softplan are probably fine for doing cabinet elevation and plan drawings, in which one calls out the sizes and types of cabinets in an installation, but for doing things beyond that, you will need something like KCDw, Cabnetware, or eCabinets.
Can you please be more specific as to what it is you need from the drawings? Will you be doing the cabinet making? Will your drawings be used by a cabinet shop?
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Thanks guys!Boy, deciding between Chief and Softplan was, well, simply put, very tough. Te Chief renderings certainly rocked. I'm frustrated, (in the case of cabinets) by the limitations to not only render what I'm designing, but in the ability to represent whats going to be built. In the case of two kitchens under design, I myself will be building them. I'd like to explore the concept of "bits to sawdust" on these projects. In the past, I've used paper, and given drawings of exploded cabs in 3D views and cutlist to the guys doing the cutting, which has included me.But, I'd love to explore the digital method, and I'm going to, come heck or highwater, hand myself cutlists that are produced digitally. So, yes, initially, I will be doing the cabinets. Down the road, I'd like to be speaking the language needed by others of course. The Softplan program is awesome in working out the concept, seeing the renderings, and tracking materials and so on, but it's geared towards the standard common "house", it seems to me. I know it's capable of much more, but it seems like, at least in the case of cabinets, that it's better to import that to work into Softplan at the detail level I'd like.I'll look into eCabinets and the others.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
That is a pretty fine job you've done there, and it shows the advantages of working in 3D for sales demonstrations and communicating with clients about your designs. the rendering is probably better than any I have done.But I agree with you that this is the weak point for SP - detailing cabinets. If you spend time at SPLASH, the guys there have lots on accessory programs like Sketchup and other workarounds.I suppose that SP production teams have reasons for keeping the cabinet detailing one of the last things they focus on, perhaps because cab design and production is an ever-changing art, but it seems that the basics are the same so adding a cab design module should not be extremely expensive for them.For myself, I do the rendering as close as possible from the SP library, and then do the shop drawing as a 2D plan like the old days. Tedious.I did completely create a diagonal corner cabinet for 3D display in SP V.9 so it is possible. I think I took solids to create the carcass, saved that, then drew the beaded frame face and applied it to the front.
But it lacked some attachment ability, so fitting it into the corner was a manual process....I know your frustrations. For all the other, like cut listing and planning parts, the Ecab program Gene mentioned is the way I would go if I were doing a lot of shop built cabs.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Jake, when it comes to cabinets and built-ins and interior design and construction, I have found that trying for photorealistic rendering while needing complete construction documents, will simply take a lot of work.
A friend of mine makes a nice living doing one of a kind furniture pieces, always commissioned, and I was recently discussing with him the whole thing of photoreal 3D modeling. In his view, it is important to be able to show the client physically, either with samples or photos or tours of installations, what to expect, but that the client needs to recognize that the process will be organic and creative, and that many things will evolve along the way.
Thus, for him, photorealistic rendering is counterproductive.
I have come to agree with him. I use software to try and resolve arrangements, massing, structure, and use real dimensions to do so, but I never want to try to show a client exactly how things will look in detail.
If you want to see a lot of good work in Sketchup, using the software for actual building, go to the Knots forum and search out the blog "Design, Click, Build." Dave presents excellent methods.
For doing cabinet work, no matter what the specifics of your designs, construction methods, joinery, etc., eCabinets will assist greatly. If you want to see it in action, CNC-wise, for very efficient cutting of all your carcase parts, go and visit Hall's Edge, near Stamford. Hall's is a CNC shop doing mostly "production sharing" work for eCabs users, meaning they cut jobs for others, directly from the eCabs jobfiles given them.
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
jake.... you gonna be at JLC this Spring ?
trying to collect the usual suspectsMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Wow, great info guys!!! Gene, that company in Stamford sound like it has some promise! Piffin, I dorked around in SP, using solids as well, and yes, I think you're right, it IS possible to do things, but, even when you're done, the object lacks a lot of the attributes that come with the other items in the program, so it gets to be more of an illustration exercise than anything.I agree with the concept of not trying to show the clients too much, but....for example, changing the cabs I've shown in the renderings from the door on case design to a face frame with beaded opening design will affect the look significantly. On top of that, I'll be adding some surface detail, which will also affect things.On a recent kitchen job, I designed the cabinets and built them from scratch (I'll toss some shots in why not, everyone likes to see things, LOL, but I apologize for the mess, these were test shots, I haven't uploaded the real shots yet) and the client was very particular about the proportions, and the scaling of the details and trim, as was I. I wanted her to really know what she was getting, and to sign off, so to speak, before the construction commenced. I found that with her, it really made a difference.Mike, yes, I like the show. It's not the NAHB, but, it's cool, and it's always great to put faces to names. Did you ever get those golf books I sent you?Jake Gulick[email protected]CarriageHouse DesignBlack Rock, CTEdited 12/28/2008 1:17 pm ET by Lateapex911
Edited 12/28/2008 1:20 pm ET by Lateapex911
jake.... yes.... brought back some good memories
who painted the cabinets... and what did the use ?
View ImageMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, it was this stuff:http://www.finepaintsofeurope.com/eurolux_interior_gloss.aspxExpensive, but flows great. I wanted the sheen to be a bit higher, and the client expected a bit more, but it was close, and it looked great. Good stuff. I did some of the early work, to get a feel, establish a method, and get approval from the client, then handed it over to some of the workers.Here's a couple shots shwing some sheen, and with a mix of daylight and tungsten light.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
gorgeous, jake ...
View ImageMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks, Mike, coming from you, that means a lot.That was a fun project, but a metric ton of work. Evey thing was custom. I cheated and manipulated existing trim profiles by ripping them and modifying them, so i didn't have to run my own, but the rest was all made on site.She wanted an "English furniture" look.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Jake.... did you settle on a CAD package yet ?...
I upgraded all 3 of my licences to X1 in Chief and finally started learning X1..... I've been using 10.08a for all our work....
then i saw X2 and upgraded all three to X2... this is a very neat upgrade....
really blew me away......
and the training videos that are available are a great tool for the learning processMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I did, Mike...I spent much of my time at the IBS builder show last Jan shuttling between the booths of Chief and Softplan. Eventually, I went with Softplan. I think Chief really had the rendering thing down, but I thought Softplan was more well rounded, and the answers I got from the Softplan guys just seemed sharper. Honestly, it was a tough tough call....51/49.That said, I wonder if it was the right move. If I had known you were Chief (I should have known that actually), I might have gone that way. I find that the "community" can make or break such things.It IS a learning process, that's for sure. And I'm frustrated at times by things that don't work as they say they will...but I imagine that isn't just me, or this program. Softplan has DVDs that are interactive for training, and that's helpful, but if they offered a 2 day program I'd be all over it. Training is scarce.One thing that I really like is the 3D modeling. I draw something, then change my viewpoint in my 3D rendering on monitor #2, and i can see what I just did. That's awesome on complicated things.Did you look at the renderings in the beginning of the thread??? That is my first Softplan project. Jake Gulick[email protected]CarriageHouse DesignBlack Rock, CT
Edited 1/20/2009 5:38 pm ET by Lateapex911
yes ,i did.... nice work....looking forward to JLC and seeing you againMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
http://splash.softplansplsh.org/front/main.htmHave you been to Splash for community support and tips?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
yes, I posted this same question over there, in the "newbie" section, and got a response or two. I think that once I become more "fluent' and can better describe my issues (like how can I make my rafters have decorative tails) I'll do more posting there.I'm on a car racing rules committee, and between those online discussions, and Softplan, it seems like the computer can an ungodly amount of time!Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Well, I am totally absolutely blown away by the capabilities of SP14. Seems like there is nothing it can't do. There is a tool called profile that lets you make up a decorative end to rafters and beams or change the shape of other elements. I have not gotten to that yet, but Randy has posted some samples at Splash.I am working through some key problems with my install on both machines. talking with tech support today, it seems that it is a reflection of the fact that I skipped from 12 to 14 without upgrading to 13, so I had to do a thing manually today on the laptop, and will probably need to do it with the desktop here now tonight.I also have done enough working thru the lessons and playing around to know that neither machine will handle full renderings well, just the simpler sketch mode for 3D, so I'll have to go shopping soon for a new machine with a good video card and up to date processor...Fun, ain't it?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You know, when I posted the comment about raftertails, i thought in the back of my mind "I wonder if that "profile" function might have anything to do with it." LOL....well thanks, when I get that far down the list of solved mysteries, I'll look there!I'll have to look up this Randy guy over on Splash. I swear I could spend 20 hours a day on this program and after a month I'd be getting somewhere!yea, it is fun. I made sure when i got my new Dell that it had lots if vid processing power. I run a dual screen monitor setup..q 17" left and a 24" right, and it's AWESOME to cut a hole in a roof or something then just move to the left monitor on an already opened 3D view (I use "tectured") and fly the camera down inside to see how it looks. Now if I can only make some cabinets in eCab...like the ones I posted pics of in the kitchen shots, I'll be thrilled. Not having any luck so far. grrr, LOLhere's something I've been working on...man, the roofs were not fun!
Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
well, I can tell you hat after twenty years roofing I don't like that low slope top of a mansard center section that runs past the window sill. Anytime the sill framing is less than 4" above the finished roof plane there is a hard time for a roofer to gaurantee it. and the left side valey of that dormer sends a lot of water into that spill zone.If there is any way to lower the mansard at right of the window so the low pitch roof has more pitch, it would be worth doing.Roofs can be work, but I think the tools are all there and what you are showing is certainly a complicated one. That skylight near the cchimney is going to be tricky too, if it is as close as it looks.I will review this thread again when I have had more time with SP, but I think after reading some things at SPLASH, that SP does now have the tools to do what you want to do with it.Catch ya later
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Good points...I should have emphasized the "work in progress" nature of that SP project. The house is actually mine, and the dormers are already built. I'm trying to "learn" my way around SP by "building" the house on SP to match reality, and funnily enough, the dormers on the turret roof are incorrectly placed. They need to move up the turret. in reality, they rest about 8" above the copper roof.Of course, rendering that copper in the manner that it's actually on the roof is tough for an SP newbie.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Piffin,
I've been on version 12 since it's release. I want to upgrade but times being what they are, I'm holding on to all the cash I can. I've heard that 14 is great but is it light years ahead of 12?
k
I'm still introducing myself to it, but my conclusion is DEFINITELY!there are so many things I was sort of able to do manually with difficulty in V12 that are automated now with various tools and buttons to click. I'll be playing with ot more over the weekend and can list some of what delights me later.but picture yourself going from an old '49 Ford to a new Expedition with all the adjustable heated seats, AC, pulse wipers, and washers, and windows you don't have to crank up and down, a phone and GPS.....
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Well said,I am a version 14 user myself I have been using Softplan
since version 11. Splash is a great resource.
Mike
I started on V9 with a Pre-Pentium machine
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>>I'll be playing with ot more over the weekend and can list some of what delights me later.
That would be great Piffin! That way I can have another tool on my wish list.
Have you ever done any pole buildings with soft plan?
k
Yes and no.There was a large new post and beam barn here that the owner had intended to donated to community to become a health club/community center. I was given the origianl plans so I could start working up renovations - back when I was in V11.I started creating the post and beam bents and parts to model the structure and was learning a lot from that. Then things fell apart when the organization muffed up some things and the owner backed off the deal. They finally got some funding together and started a new building with a new archy on a different site. I understand from examples at SPLASH that pole buildings are fairly painless now tho.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I always tell my customers that I'll just get the kitchen to where it's workable - They need to take it to a kitchen center and have someone finalize the design. They know a lot more about kitchens and cabinets than I ever will. Being as you are gonna build these kitchens anyway, don't you have software for the cabinets? And can't the software you have do 3D renderings?I'm asking because when I get cabinets from the local lumberyard, the cabinet lady has all that stuff on her computer. I'm assuming that custom cabinet builders have the same stuff, or something similar?I guess I'm asking, as much as anything...
Reality is a nice place, but I wouldn't want to live there.
Boss, I just picked up eCabs...but I haven't had time to install it, been working on other deadlines. I'll jump in THAT pool later this week and see if I can swim.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT