Hey, I live in the basement of my own house. I rent the 2 top floors to short term renters who either come to party or relax.
My outside walls are made of concrete, 2×3 and urethane insulation.
The inside separating walls are 2×4 with resilient channels and 1 layer drywall both sides and rock-whole insulation in the middle.
The ceiling consist of 1×3 fur, 4″ blown-in insulation, then resilient channel and 1 layer drywall.
I would like to reduce the sound going up that could disturb the upstairs neighbors without having to add drywall, re-caulk, re-tape, re-mud and re-paint.
Anything I can do?
Replies
I would like to reduce the sound going up that could disturb the upstairs neighbors without having to add drywall, re-caulk, re-tape, re-mud and re-paint.
Anything I can do?
Yeah.....cut down on all the partying!
What are your floor and wall treatments currently?
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
I unfortunately cannot cut on the neighbors partying I I would prefer to be able to live without having to hush my children all the time.My walls consist of 2x4 fur, resilient channel bars both side, 1 layer 1/2 drywall both sides taped and painted and rock-whole insulation in the middle.The ceiling is 9 1/4" I joist under-layered with 1x3 fur 16" spaced, filled with 4" of blown-in whole (don't know how to call the exact type).
Then there is polyethylene membrane to old the whole thing up.
We then put resilient channels bars and finished with 1/2 drywall muddied, taped and painted.
Screw 3/4" particle board to the ceiling.
You don't have to paint it (you may not like its color)
Does not need putty or tape.
It is more denser than drywall ( 1/2" weighs less)
Or a thick carpet on the ceiling will do the same thing (more choice of colors).
The crucial elements are:
Mass -- you want lots.
Physical isolation -- you want as much as possible.
Cracks, gaps, and other weak links -- you don't want these.
Insulation is much less important, but can cut down on reverberation.
You've already got more soundproofing than most folks, but some people don't pay enough attention to detail as they go.
The fact that you say, "...add drywall, re-caulk, re-tape, re-mud and re-paint," leads me to believe that you might have caulked the drywall seams with acoustic sealant before you taped. If you did, that's good -- most people miss that step.
But do you have recessed lighting? If so, eliminate it.
If you have standard boxes in your ceiling, I'd suggest that you pump quick-setting drywall mud up through the holes in the boxes until you've completely mounded the boxes over with mud.
But with the blown-in insulation, I doubt that would work.
So eliminating all ceiling penetrations is another idea, but only if you can permanently shut off all electricity to all of the existing ceiling boxes.
You don't mention whether or not there is a communicating stairway. If so, make sure it has weather-stripped doors top and bottom. And, if it's not needed for egress (check your code!), add a wall behind the door at the top.
At this point, the only other thing I can think of would be to double up the ceiling drywall. Leave cracks at the edges and seams, so that you can gun in a good bead of acoustic sealant. Make sure that no fasteners bridge through to framing (each one that does becomes a little "tin-can-telephone"). And make sure to use a different thickness of drywall for the second layer --if the existing ceiling is 5/8", use 1/2" for layer #2. If it's 1/2", use 5/8".
AitchKay
What does changing the thickness of the drywall do? What do you think of cork on the ceiling and walls?
I should have explained that. Sorry. Oddly enough, drywall will vibrate sympathetically, and the difference in thicknesses reduces this tendency, since the different thicknesses will vibrate at different frequencies.In practice, I don't know how much difference this really makes, but the sound pros will sometimes spec it.I have heard good things bout QuietRock, but I have never used it. It’s probably worth the extra expense if you’re starting from scratch. I suspect that the diminished performance when layered is a resonance issue, but I don’t know. Looks like a good browse through their website would be well worth the time.And since what you really want is mass, cork would not perform well. It would change the acoustics, and help stop echoing, but not block transmission.AitchKay
Re "without having to add drywall, re-caulk, re-tape, re-mud and re-paint." It looks like you've wiped out most your best choices. Stopping air movement and absorbing the sound waves appear as you most common means of solving such problems.
When we caulked all the 2x's to the sheathing, before insulating, it made a remarkable difference in keeping exterior sounds out. You'd have to open a door to hear the howling winds. However, removing your old rock to do that is a bit much.
If you went the second layer of drywall route, there are new materials out that far exceed drywall for sound absorption. This caulked would really go a long way to solving your problem.
What material other than drywall can I use and what do you think of cork?
Sound is rarefaction and compressions of air waves. In our phones, the compression and release of carbon in the speaker and mike are caused by air waves. This alters the amount of current transferred. Our ears contain hair like sensors that detect this movement too. Stop the air movement and there is nothing to sense. A light weight wall will act like the flexible portion of a speaker and will move air on the other side in the same pattern as the air hitting it. Absorb the air waves and the sound effects out the other side are lessened or stopped. Of course, this means the wall as to be sealed too, or the air movement will travel through the cracks and such.I am far from an expert, many of these things I remember from my inquisitive days as a youth (decades ago) and other things I learned trying to deal with the same problem you are seeking to address. In my search, I considered cork, but it seems it worked no better, if not worse than an extra layer of drywall. I could be wrong, but I suspect you'd have to use some pretty thick cork to really improve things and you still want to seal between sheets.Adding drywall can be an excuse to pretty the place up some more. You can do patterns around outlets and such, such as by making cutouts a few inches larger than the outlet. You can stack extra layers for an elegant look (e.g., first a boarder 12" wide on the ceiling, then a 6" one on that).Here is a site for special "drywall." The material has gotten some good reports. Run it and see what you think.
http://www.quietsolution.com/html/quietrock.htmlEdited 1/15/2009 3:29 pm ET by dejure
Edited 1/15/2009 3:31 pm ET by dejure
The last web site given has a rather excellent product line at the minimum you must use the 1/2 inch although the 5/8 is far superior. The published ratings are actually higher for the sheet being used alone and not added as a second layer. The 5/8 option can be tricky if you chose to go with the imbedded steel layer obviously due to far greater cutting and application procedures. A note ... The acoustic sealant they sell is a wonderful product, albeit an absolute nightmare to work with. Woe be it to those that get it spread on more than just the wall. It is a permanently non cured agent rubber based I believe. If followed to the tee ,the results are rather excellent.
Green glue is a material that has gotten good notice to attach DW.http://www.greengluecompany.com/Now let me get this clear. The problem is with the noise the kids makes in the basement and heard by the people above. EXACTLY what kind of noise. Heavy base playing. voices, etc..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
I would say loud voices from the boys playroom and sound system and voices from the living room.
Do you have any duct work between the floors?While the system that you have not not block all of the sounds from sub-sub woofer at 235 db or the noise from a nuclear explosion I would think that voices should not be a problem.So I am thinking of some places the sound bypasses..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Your are probable right about the noise passing somewhere. I do have an HVAC sytem inside the walls and ceiling. I will look into that and into sealing light fixture boxes.I read the whole Green Glue Company site.
Wow! I think I understand how sound travels now.
Thank you very much!
Unfortunately (But especially fortunate) I now know that the best way to better the system already in place is to double with a 5/8" drywall under-layered with green glue and sealed with acoustic sealant at all joints. Re-mud and re-paint the whole room and not to add a carpet to the ceiling.
interesting situation you have you are worried that you are too loud for the partiers? please do tell more.
Not exactly. I am worried of disturbing the ones that are there to relax and total quietness.
I am also worried about sleeping when they are major party people.Hey, I am a Canadian from Mont-Tremblant, Laurentians in Quebec. Although I do not have any schooling in construction. I have been a fixer-upper guy for now 10 years and a finishing carpenter for 5 years, usually running the team I work with.
I intend to stay there for a while until I am ready to work around the clock as a contractor.
Another sound barrier I have run across, when remodeling a condo.They used 3/4" buildrite, AKA asphalt sheathing under the 5/8" sheetrock on all the partition walls and ceilings. It might have a different brand name, but it looked just like the buildrite. The condo was built about 20 years ago, so there might be better materials available now. It did seem to help deaden the sound quite a bit though.
I would go with the 5/8" rock and green glue. That carpet on the ceiling is a pain to vacuum. :)