Working for client, retired fellow GC’ing his own small house constr. and doing a lot of work himself. I’m trimming, flooring, etc at T&M.
He’s selected and purchased 5″ wide SYP planks, T&G and it’s come in 8’ers. 650sq feet of wide open room. OSB subfloor. Boards are stickered and sitting in the room now and will for the next week or 2.
Can you offer suggestions for:
1. 15lb felt good for vapor barrier?
2. Nailing? Staples or cleat nails better? Thru the tongue with air flooring nailer, and what is the nailing schedule for planks like this 8-10″?
3. Stagger pattern. The boards are not T&G on the ends. What suggestions for cutting and staggering? Lots of ‘obstacles’ in the room, 4 big posts, 2 woodstove/gas stove hearth pads etc… Go half and half and just start cutting? Any suggestions on butting ends? Biscuits or anthing necessary? stagger less or go random lengths?
4. Finishing. I will sub the sanding and finish. Is a ‘conditioner’ required for staining? Then an oil sealer, then oil urethane? Or let cond/stain/sealer ‘gas out’ long enough and go water based urethane topping?
Any thoughts helpful!
Thanks
Pat
Replies
If the guy you are working for is a retired GC, why don't you ask him how he would like his floor done.
BTW. If by felt paper you mean tar paper. I don't like tar paper inside a house.
Little crabby this morning?
Not "retired GC", "Retired fellow" GC'ing his own house to keep himself busy. I'm trying to get the guy as much info as he can so he can make informed decisions and I can try to do the best job I can for him.
"Tar" paper is very commonly used in the house, in my experience, as vapor barrier, floor underlay, wall moisture barrier behind wet walls--showers and whatnot. If you have a suggestion for me as to another product, that could be helpful.
A. If there is an unconditioned space below the floor - crawlspace, basement or otherwise - use a 15# felt. You will be sorry if you don't. BTDT.
B. You can use biscuits to join the ends but this will add time and be diffilcult to get them to stay in place. Unstead, I would suggest using a router to cut a groove in each end and then use a spline. Much simpler. With a 5" board, splines will reduce the oppertunity for boards cupping. Spline should be available from the/ a flooring supplier.
C. When all the boards come a single length, to reduce end joints aligning, I cut 2' of material off of the first board and use whatever is left from the last peice of each run to begin the next. It is not actually the next, but whatever the next is after the prepped boards.
D. Throw in a couple of 6' pieces so the 8' dimension does not become too apparent.
E. Pine is soft and resiny. It will gum-up your paper fast. Be prepared with additional paper. You do not need to go with a rough a grit to begin with as you would with oak. I would not start with anything heavier than 60gr.
F. A conditioner is a good idea. Be carefull you do not scuff the floor - especially after the conditioner.
Hope this helps,
Frankie
Flay your Suffolk bought-this-morning sole with organic hand-cracked pepper and blasted salt.
Thrill each side for four minutes at torchmark haut. Interrogate a lemon.
Embarrass any tough roots from the samphire. Then bamboozle till it's al dente with that certain je ne sais quoi.
Arabella Weir as Minty Marchmont - Posh Nosh
Edited 5/27/2007 4:06 pm ET by Frankie
All understood. Thank you much.
What about nailing schedule? and do you prefer staples or flooring cleat nails? (you know with the L at the head--I have a box left over of these and like to use 'em)
I'll pass the finishing info to the floor pros I'll have sand and finish it.
Thanks,
Pat
Very nice tagline by the way... You are a cook?
I enjoy cooking/ food/ eating.Staples hold better than nails. Nails are perfectly fine though. I usually use nails because that is the tool I have and I prefer not to rent if I don't have to. Mine is manual. No compressor required. GGRRR!Frankie
Flay your Suffolk bought-this-morning sole with organic hand-cracked pepper and blasted salt.
Thrill each side for four minutes at torchmark haut. Interrogate a lemon.
Embarrass any tough roots from the samphire. Then bamboozle till it's al dente with that certain je ne sais quoi.
Arabella Weir as Minty Marchmont - Posh Nosh
I've got 5" wide syp floors. Tar paper makes a good slip sheet. Is the house conditioned? SYP can be squirrely, getting it acclimated will help a lot.Don't know why it doesn't come end matched, but as long as clients know that going in, shouldn't be a problem...biscuits might help...but it is a floor... I'd never even consider staining it, way to soft. Pine is a bitch to stain evenly. It's going to scratch, and right through the stain. I put a waterbased poly on my floor, Diamond Varathane, big mistake. I've put Waterlox on client's floors, much better, way easier to touch up...poly's not that forgiving. SYP does mellow into a great amber, and the grain is fantastic IMO.
I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more.
No, I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more.
Well, she talks to all the servants
About man and God and law.
Everybody says
She's the brains behind pa.
She's sixty-eight, but she says she's twenty-four.
I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more.
Stain works just fine...did on mine even with all the scratching and nicks. Pine sucks the stain in better than any other wood for that matter.
You can use a conditioner first if it makes you feel better and I would but I didn't...lol...and it looks great...not blotchy at all. I did a test area first to be sure. Conditioner is cheap and easy to put down so one could if it helps them sleep better or if the pine they're using seems to suck the stain badly (test an area).
I have no idea either why one would bisauit the ends of the planks. I didn't and some of my planks were 20ish" wide. Cupping hasn;t been a problem at all.
I did face nail everything and glue em'. The rooms I didn't glue seem to be holding just as good as the rooms with glue so I dunno...
I used red rosin paper where I didn't use the glue.
PS...Two weeks stickered to aclimate the boards doesn't seem near long enough to me!! I'd give it at least twice that much time depending on the weather.
"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit." Abbie Hoffman
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I've run a mile oif SYP flooring with powernails, driven both by pnuematic guns and the manual drive type. I'd nail about 12" OC at least.
SYP seems to come pretty ghreen so let it dry as long as possible with sticklers and fan.
This time of year, it gets hot and humid so If tyhere is no AC, get a dehumidifier in the room where it is stickered. I really don't know of any flooring woiod that is more likely to shrink, and I usually use the 1x4 size. 5" will shrink worse.
It is not especially stable,m so definitely use the spline for the butts with 5" wide. The narrower that I use - we don't spline or bisquit.
I jsut finiished a new one last month. Started out sanding with 80 grit in the 4x4 6"ROS
the new minwqax stain with low VOC formula was nasty to work with. It went very uneven and light and blotchy. I ended up thinning it and applying a secoind coat and letting it have an extra couple days to dry, then the topp coats of their fast dry poly.
Watco is a lot easier to rub in for a stain
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Thank you, Piffin.
The material did 'feel' pretty green. I have it stickered with the fan as we speak. This is Oregon here, so drought in Summer/rain constant in Winter. Right now is actually a good time to put a floor in because its in between the worst wet and the worst dry. We've had clear spring weather, colder nights and 70's in the days lately. Next week much hotter up to 90.
Should acclimate the flooring well.
You think biscuits are ok? I have the tool and it seems like less than a PITA than getting/making splines, getting that router bit and going that route for each and every end. The biscuit joiner seems like it would be faster to me.
I will likely use the nails as I have some I'd like to be rid of. You think they'll hold well enough in OSB?
I think I'll lobby the HO for Conditioner/stain then oil primer sealer like Dura Seal 210 Neutral. Then after that's gassed out completely, he can do whatever finish he likes.
Have you tried a waterborne finish by "Wearmax?" I have it on our fir floors, over oil primer/sealer and it's been great. They have a ceramic coating that's dealt only to the 1 "approved" contractor in our area that's supposed to be rediculously hard.
Cheers,
Pat
Yeah, bisqyuits OK but spline better.I don't care for waterborne finishews on floors so I can't comment on that one.
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Yes on the 15# felt underlay.
The only time that is a bad idea is when there is radiant heat in the sublfoor
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
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And then what would you use? Rosin Paper? Nothing?
Resin paper or glue. With wide SYP over radiant heat, I might want the glue, 'cause the heat would make it want to cup and curl.Actually, I would not use wide SYP over heat, period
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
<Actually, I would not use wide SYP over heat, period>Amen brother, it's bad enough at floor registers, but around here it's called character<G> I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more.
No, I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more.
Well, she talks to all the servants
About man and God and law.
Everybody says
She's the brains behind pa.
She's sixty-eight, but she says she's twenty-four.
I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more.