Replies

1. 
   Art_B. | Jan 29, 2002 02:43pm | #1

   *
   If ya gotta ask how to do that I'm scared to tell ya.

1. 
   Ralph_Wicklund | Jan 29, 2002 05:19pm | #2

   *HEADLINEFire Department investigators have traced the source of yesterdays fire that completely destroyed a new home and severely injured the homeowner to a workmans attempt to rewire a 15A circuit to provide 220 volts to operate a floor sander.

1. 
   Mad_Dog | Jan 29, 2002 05:40pm | #3

   *Now now Ralph,He didn't specify 15 amps...

1. 
   Mad_Dog | Jan 29, 2002 05:48pm | #4

   *Rich,Seriously, what you may want to do is set your cord up with a dryer end. Then take the matching female end and make another cord. Leave it with pigtails, including a wire for grounding, and buy some common two pole breakers or (around here) at least a Square D, and then you can just plug it into the jobsite service panel if they don't have an electric dryer outlet--That's if they allow you near the box, which at this point is justifiably questionable! Be sure to study a good wiring book so you can work safely and get it right without endangering you or innocent people...

1. 
   Ralph_Wicklund | Jan 29, 2002 05:57pm | #5

   *Gee, MD, I see that now.Well, you know how those reporters rarely get all the facts straight. You'll see a correction on page 8, tomorrows edition.Correction: Due to a reporting error, the story about the house fire should have said that the worker bypassed the panel breakers and attached a modified extension cord directly to the main 200 amp breaker. The extension cord was 100 feet long, 16 ga., fitted with several different types of outlets such as used for ranges, clothes dryers and large window air conditioners. Fire official said that the cord was kinked and coiled and the excess was buried under some trash which included paper, plastic and rags used by the painter who had been staining woodwork. Although the painter had finished his job there were several open cans of stain and mineral spirits left behind that also contributed to the conflagration.

2. 
   Mad_Dog | Jan 29, 2002 06:18pm | #6

   *LOL Ralph, (sort of)Right. My thing could be fine, or it could be as you described it, a criminal disaster, depending on the cobjob quality control inspector.would be pretty handy to have all kinds of finely sanded flooring dust to act as tinder for the arcing connections! Plus maybe a fresh can of floor oil, thinner for explosive dramatics! This isn't funny anymore...I wouldn't use 16 guage wire for anything...not even in my boat. Rich, if you have any questions about how to hook up your sander, talk to an electrician you can trust. I don't know how many amps your sander would pull, but I would guess a high quality 10 gauge extension cord would get you by. Again, check with the e-trician.

3. 
   Joe_Hennessey | Jan 29, 2002 07:48pm | #7

   *Rich, it's new, take it back. It's not too late to consider another line of work. Any other line of work..........

4. 
   Mad_Dog | Jan 29, 2002 07:54pm | #8

   *Joe, You're a tough sonofagun! Just 'cause he's not up on his arcs doesn't mean he can't sand a floor...MD

5. 
   James_DuHamel | Jan 30, 2002 05:09am | #9

   *Rich,On a serious note here, you need to re-ask this question WITHOUT the use of the word "Sparkies". There are some very good electricians here that could answer your question, but the use of the word "sparkies" is an insult to them. They ain't here, and they ain't coming. Sparkies is basically like calling them "those electricians that are so bad at their work, that everything they do causes sparks" or something to that effect. James DuHamel

6. 
   Joe_Hennessey | Jan 30, 2002 07:48am | #10

   *MD, just hoping to save the boy from a life of misery. Joe H

7. 
   Bill_Hartmann | Jan 30, 2002 07:57am | #11

   *Look at this thread starting at message 34.http://webx.taunton.com/WebX?128@@.ef24c75

8. 
   The_Tennis_Court_Builder_...on_t | Jan 30, 2002 04:56pm | #12

   *Sparkies is fine. But... this question really is how to illegally hook up power, which many floor sanding guys do. There actually are proper OSHA approved connecting methods that most pro outfits may know. This guy should just call the maker of the sander to get proper hook up ideas. My guys carry there own extension cords and always hook into the panel directly. I do not know if what they do is OSHA approved.near the stream,aj

9. 
   Art_B. | Jan 30, 2002 05:33pm | #13

   *I like the description "sparkies". My job in the 1970's/80's was testing missile silos for lightning and EMP hardness -- if we didn't make BIG sparks at big current (>300 KA), we had a bad test set (semi-trailers full of capacitors).

10. 
    Kerr | Jan 30, 2002 08:56pm | #14

    *Art,wow.was it loud?Like most guys, fire and explosions are somehow irresistable to me (under the right circumstances) and a 300KA spark sounds really, really BIG.cool.I loved the line in "G.I. Jane" when a nuse asked Demi Moore why she was trying to join the Navy Seals and as a way of replying, Demi asked the nurse what the guys say when asked that question. The nurse replied that they say it is "Because I get to blow sh*t up!".

11. 
    Art_B. | Jan 30, 2002 09:42pm | #15

    *Kerr: VERY safety controlled, ear protectors were a MUST. Had a 4 megamp short circuit once that caused enough overpressure to blow the steel door frame out of the concrete block wall leading to the control room. 4 week safety investigation/review. 'nuff said.

12. 
    xJohn_Sprung | Jan 31, 2002 07:18am | #16

    *Art, it sounds like you could have helped Dr. Frankenstein with his scheduling problem -- no need to wait for a storm with your gear.... ;-)-- J.S.

13. 
    Dave_Richeson | Jan 31, 2002 10:48am | #17

    *Art, Maybe you blew the doors off of a maintenance building, but not the control room."Life in the egg" is not at the silo site. My son was a launch officer.

14. 
    Peter_Koski | Jan 31, 2002 04:44pm | #18

    *How about THIS? Hire an ELECTRICIAN to make a cord out of 10/2w G that goes from the dryer receptacle to another portable junction box. You may need more than one cord because of the different configurations in dryer plugs. THEN you can have your electrician put the sort of receptacle in that box that fits your sander. This setup is wired right because of the fact that most dryers are on 30 amp breakers.Any holes in this scenario? Have no clue what to tell you to do if you have a gas dryer.

15. 
    Art_B. | Jan 31, 2002 05:30pm | #19

    *Dave: It was not THAT control room. Agree that it would take MUCH MUCH MUCH more to budge an LCC door - energy in the mishap mentioned was "only" equivalent to a few cases of dynamite.The control room was at a company test site, not at actual site such as Kenmare, ND. (last actual site I tested at, 1991) Ask your son his opinion of "pink patriot" in the '80s. Did your son ever get to witness any of the overburden/primacord tests?

16. 
    Dave_Richeson | Feb 01, 2002 12:29pm | #20

    *Art B.I didn't mean that to sound contintious. After I posted I realised that such a test would not have been at a real site.My sons first duty station was out of Great Falls, Montana in early 1990s. He sent me literature on the "egg", and an Air Force video on ICBM developement. There were some really big "booms" on that video. He did get to make a "Glory Shot" at White Sands AFB while he was a launch officer.He is now at Chyenne Mountin as a senior orbital analysist. Headed back to D.C. in June for a Homeland Security job. Dave

17. 
    Kerr | Feb 01, 2002 08:55pm | #21

    *OK, Art, next question!How in the heck did you throw a switch that can carry a current that big?!?!?I am imagining some kind of one-use thing that is operated by an explosive charge or something. I mean, how do you connect the current to what you want to spark with out being sparked by it. Even if I picture a remotely operated switch I picture it being blown up by the current (and wasting your spark).Inquiring minds want to know... :o)

18. 
    The_Tennis_Court_Builder_...on_t | Feb 01, 2002 09:41pm | #22

    *Good question...Tell us... bout the switch!near the stream jumpin big time once when I tried to tighten a loose 200 amp breaker connection on a cold all electric heat home and stupidly forgot to shut off all the breakers! The flash that problably ruined my central eyesite now that I think about it. Stood me back several feet.aj

19. 
    Rich_Watkins | Feb 04, 2002 02:36pm | #23

    *Man you guys are tough! Bill, thanks for directing me to the archive post concerning Greg Warren and his response. James, no "sparkie" I know has ever been offended by that term used in the correct context. I'm a former Marine and hear the term "jarhead" used affectionatley all the time. Now..someone says f^$&ing jarhead and they get knocked out. Greg is totally correct. I bought a 220 machine because I'm not a home owner DIY. On this job I have 2300 feet to knock down and I get sq. ft. dollars...time is money. I've also been involved in this industry since I could pick up nails...just have'nt spent any time with "sparkie" issues (not that my question was that difficult to answer). Thanks anyway. The electrician on this particular job spent about an hour with me showing and explaining everthing I needed to know. The next day he showed up with 3 pigtails he made the night before to get me through almost any application that could arise. He also offered to come out to my jobs anytime I needed 220 hooked up and was'nt comfortable doing it myself. Some of you guys need to get off your condescending high F%$^ing horses. Oh... and stay off my floors with your dirty boots!

20. 
    Mad_Dog | Feb 04, 2002 04:23pm | #24

    *Jarhead,So what do the pigtails look like? Did he like the dryer idea? Or did he show you how to convert those 110 outlets...??MD

21. 
    Art_B. | Feb 04, 2002 04:23pm | #25

    *AJ, Kerr: Switch response. Here is the only piece of the switch after the 4MA mishap still in my possession. Thought I posted this Friday but must not have sent. The broken wire was part of the 500 MCM lead from a GE ignitron (GE no longer makes), 18 inches dia, agout 2 ft tall. Wire broke from magnetic forces rather than fused. The sq piece of Aluminum was what the lead was bolted to with 2 ea 1/2 grade 9 bolts, 5/8" thick 6061-T6, figured it took 20,000 p0unds to bend it like that. The pieces of 1" dia type K copper pipe were tried for carrying high kA for a short time, parallel magnetic forces collapsed the pipe at 125 kA in 2 ms.

22. 
    Art_B. | Feb 04, 2002 04:28pm | #26

    *sign off with sparkies

23. 
    Kerr | Feb 05, 2002 03:01am | #27

    *woahhhhhhthanks. Military stuff is so cool, why don't women understand that about men? ;o)

24. 
    IBEW_Barry | Feb 05, 2002 05:58am | #28

    *Rich,Glad you got hooked up by an electrician that would make time to help you out. From my experience OSHA inspectors watch temporary wiring on jobsites REAL close.Any 120v receptacles without working GFCI protection are cause for big fines. Two other things they watch for are that electrical boxes have to be fastened to the building structure, and that flexible cords leaving panels have to have strain relief. So, if your electrician made you some kind of receptacle in a box to plug your cord into,to be righteous have it set up so the box can be firmly on the wall.They know if it's laying on the ground getting kicked and dragged around it'll soon not be worth a s---.I don't know what kind of cord cap came on your machine, but I was going to suggest a twist lock male cord cap for the sander with a twist lock recptacle on a piece of SJO cord for the panel.You could use a "kellem" grip on the cord coming out of the panel, it's like a chinese finger basket with a connector body that fits into a panel knockout with a locknut.You can jerk on the cord and never pull it out of the panel.Happy sanding.

25. 
    Rich_Watkins | Feb 05, 2002 01:25pm | #29

    *IBEW Barry,Thanks, First off the sander is A1. Random orbit, and sands flat as a pancake with no chatter and almost no dust. I am in the process of buying two more this month.Here's the deal: On a job with no 220 ( like today) he comes out first thing in the a.m. makes me a legal (temp) 220 connection. Then when I'm finished he comes out and puts it all back together. I will pay him hourly usually 50 bucks each way and charge it against the job. I don't feel comfortable messing about with panels. This arrangement keeps everybody legal and safe.

26. 
    Rich_Watkins | Feb 05, 2002 02:16pm | #30

    *Also, thanks to all for the ass whipping on my question. I have no electrical experience save for plugging my saws in and pulling the trigger. I'll stick to building beautiful floors and let my new 'sparkie' friend get me juice.Rich

27. 
    redcay73 | Mar 01, 2002 10:51pm | #31

    *Guys,guys,guys, IF you're not a TRAINED electrician please do us and your insurance company a favor and find a good,knowledgeable one before you attempt this typpe of craziness!!!

28. 
    Mad_Dog | Mar 01, 2002 11:55pm | #32

    *who are you talking to?not one to feel bad for insurance companies,MD

29. 
    Ron_Budgell | Mar 02, 2002 05:25am | #33

    *Hey Ralph, A floor finisher came bloody close to burning down a house we built six or seven years ago. He was resanding and finishing because he messed it up the first time- waves all over the floor. He was working on the weekend so there's be nobody in his way. Sunday afternoon, one of my partners and myself showed up on the job to finish some details in the basement, though we'd both sworn we were going to take the weekend off. We worked for a while, coming and going, hauling tools and materials past a pile of garbage bags the floor finisher had put just outside the front door. I smelled smoke, put a hand on one of the bags and jumped back! It was hot! They were all smouldering inside. I opened them up in the front yard, clouds of smoke pouring off the dust and spread them and soaked them. If we hadn't gone to work that day, these bags of dust just might have burst into flame later on. The flame would go straight up through the vinyl soffit and into the roof and I would have had a hard time collecting on my final invoice.

30. 
    lonecat | Mar 02, 2002 11:37am | #34

    *Gimmee that dam thing, I ain't afraid of lectricity either.

31. 
    als_ | Mar 03, 2002 05:16pm | #35

    *oh boy!