I will be building my first spec house this winter. What ideas (features) do you guys have to include into the plans that would really make it attractive.
Whirlpool tubs to me are a waste of space and money but realtors say that they are a must. Most surveys say that they only get used 8 times a year.
Any other “must haves”?
Any experience with “drywall art”?
Lighting?
House will be about a ranch with 1900-2000 sf. 3 bed, 2 1/2 bath, 200-225,00 price range with lot and all improvements. Going price for this area.
Also what tricks to the open house showing. I have heard about setting the lights just right, a/c on (or heat). What about colors, smells what works best?
Thanks for all your help.
Replies
Crown molding. Works every time.
Consider doing something different of the ceilings. Maybe beaded boards.
I have used some rounded corners and checked into drywall art. I wouldn't use it for a spec house. For a custom home - yes. Good luck
He he he . Ill be back.
Tim Mooney
I've heard Realtors say to simmer cinnimon in water on the stove to give an "apple pie" smell that evokes feelings of home. I've heard that small alcoves and nooks are now real popular in Habitat for Humanity houses--some nooks are just the depth of the stud bay and just big enough for a picture or vase. I like entries that separate the entry door from the living space so you don't just wlk right into the house. Porches are nice too. Bay windows and window seats are nice features too.
Don't worry about how often a feature gets used by the eventual owmners. That is their problem. What you are building is something to appeal to their fantasies, or at least the ones envisioned at the time they see the house and sign the sales agreement.
Decks or porches don't get used that often either, but they are a must.
niches and cubbies end up as trash catch-als, but they look great on plan. same with whirlpools. I only take a bath three or four times a year But that doesn't mean I would buy a house without a bathtub.
I shower the other 360 days of the year for you all wise guys
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks to all for your input and keep it comming.
All of these are great ideas, but you can only spend so much time and material adding in the little extras before you price your self right out if the market.
We don't have a parade of homes in my area, closest one about 60 mi away. Is a good idea, one that I have thought about before.
I am designing it myself so I cam be flexible in the layout. Open floorplan kit, dining, and family room. Some rooms would be hard to tray or cathedral but it may be worth changing layout to accomidate it. Front porch with raised roof over porch (9-10' high). I guess I really need entry to be as high or else it will seem like you ar going into cave with porch ceiling that high.
Stained Oak trim, 6 panel doors. Hate painted trim, you can't handle it without scuffing or marring it up then spend days touching it up.
Carpet is a must have. Rooms always look undone no matter how good your work is. Carpet guy comes in and BAM every thing looks complete.
Thanks again guys, first time to use this chat room. Been a FH reader for 10 or so years but never really spent much time online.
Roger
I see Tim Mooney already pointed to the "Spec House From Hell" thread. That's a definite must-read for newbies.
I also did really nice wood trim and 6 panel doors in that house. Stained and finished it all by hand.
Honestly, I don't think anyone here could tell you what features you should include in a spec house. I think that can only come from research into what sells in your area. That's one of the more serious mistakes I made on the SHFH - I didn't do enough research up front.
I included a sunken living room, thinking it would be a great design feature. And it does look great. But probably half the people who looked at the house were looking for a place for aging parents that are looking to move back to the area and retire. A sunken living room is not something a 60-70 YO person wants.
I was very idealistic about building the house. I thought someone would come along who really appreciated the high quality and extra effort I put into the house. But after 3 years of interest at $700 a month no one has. But every cheap home with poor quality windows sells like crazy. So I'm convinced that quality means very little to the general public. Cheap price means a lot.
Make sure you're well financed going in, just in cae things tank on you. Ya just might end up living in the house, like I do now. Things can happen that are completely out of your control - Like the terrorist attacks while I was trying to sell mine. No one looked at the house for 90 days after that. And there was nothing I could do about it.
By all means hang around here. You'll learn an amazing amount in a year or two.
And keep us posted on what's going on. We'll share in your miseries and enjoy your triumphs with you.Doctor: "Did you take the patient's temperature?"Nurse: "No. Is it missing?"
Boss,
You beat me to the punch! Everything you said is what really needs to be said and more so I'll continue.....
Who is the target buyer?
How much does a home that they would buy right across the street cost?
What are the features of that house?
How many of those houses are available?
Mort,
Just like the boss said, you really have to become an expert on houses in your area. Then and only then will you know what to build. And keep this in mind... Your cost to build the house is going to be higher than you expect, for sure. And the selling price of your spec home is not determined by the cost to build. It is determined by every other home in the area (on the next street over, just around the corner, etc...) that has the exact same specs or really, really close.
So, if you research and find out that a spec home in your area sells for $300 and you end up spending $300 to build yours, you will never sell and will end up loosing all kinds of money in interest.
People who are spec home buyers don't pay for unseen quality. "Straight walls" don't get any higher asking price than "crooked walls" (of course to a point). The expectation is "straight walls" so pointing out that your walls are straighter that his walls is meaningless. The buyers don't care how starlight is straight. Substitute any word you like for straight, and it applies. That's why I'm not sure how some spec builders use advantech sheeting. Unless they are getting it at some wildly great price, it doesn't pay to put down the good stuff. The buyers never see it and don't care.
Don't get spec buyers and custom home buyers confused. Spec buyers only get to choose colors on the wall, some limited carpet and tile options, etc.... Custom home buyers get to choose everything. So if you get a buyer before you are done, treat them accordingly (of course custom home buyers should pay more for the luxury of having it exactly as they want it). There's a trade off though, custom home buyers can be harder to work for and will likely be more particular about quality.
Good luck,
Rob Kress
Wow- Lots of info.
Local builders are putting up specs in same price range and selling them sometimes before they are done. My lot is in new division with new homes seem to be selling ok. I have seen a couple local specs set for far to long, that makes me a little nervous but one just looked like a big box, no lawn, landscape etc. The other was very nice but over priced for an spec and in the country, no public services avail. Most new home owners want no maint on wells, septic, cable tv, and small nice lawn, it had 1.6 ac.
I have thought about this for a long tome and think that the timing is right. Sometimes you need to take a risk. nothing ventured nothing gained, right. Sometimes we need to step out on faith, trust and pray that God will lead the way.
I don't like the low ceiling height in some areas just to make others appear taller. Just make the other areas taller. In some places like a window seat or little bump out it would be appropriate.
Thanks
Roger
Edited 10/5/2004 8:00 am ET by mort1
Mort,
To just further my point, you should be able to tell us all why those two houses are not selling if you really know the market in your area. And it sounds like you have a little bit of an idea. Go further and investigate even more and you will guarantee yourself a pleasant, profitable experience.
I hope you didn't take my post the wrong way. I wan't trying to scare you off from building a spec, just trying to help you understand how spec home builders do it.
If you really want your house to stand out from the crowd (in a development setting), raise the roof line from the normal 7 and 8 to 10 and 12. My house has a lot of gable ends presenting to the street. All of these are 12's with the main gable at 10 and it looks really stately when you pull in. Unless of course the development is a row of California ranches with 3/12 roof lines.
Good luck,
Rob Kress
"Local builders are putting up specs in same price range and selling them sometimes before they are done."
The subdivision I built the spec house from hell in was the same way - Any piece of crap that was thrown up was sold before the roof was on. Seemed like a sure thing.
Like RobKress, I'm not trying to scare you away from building one. Just want you to be realistic (not idealistic) going in.Sure, you can trust the government - just ask an Indian!
I don't like the low ceiling height in some areas just to make others appear taller. Just make the other areas taller. In some places like a window seat or little bump out it would be appropriate.
The purpose of a lower ceiling height in some areas is not just to make others appear taller. Especially in houses with high ceilings, having a lower ceiling in some areas (using soffits, window seats, bumpouts etc.) can make the place seem more cozy and comfortable, as well as break up the volume of the space in an interesting way.
Just my 2 cents.
I think if I was going to do what you are, the first person to have onboard would be the realtor. That is one thing that has come thru clearly to me in reading this thread.
These are all great ideas, cautions, experiences and suggestions. The things that make BreakTime so addictive.
More free opinion. I realize that different markets are different, and I'm not in the business. But as a homebuyer a few things really turn me off. One is really tasteless gaudy faucets, gold trimmed mirrors, pink sinks shaped like sea shells. I do not want bland and boring, but not tasteless schmaltz either. I also don't like drywall in the garage. I thought I was weird, but asked 4 of my friends and they all agree with me. It wastes money, looks bad as soon as the kids get their bikes in it, shows every little ding and scrape, prevents access to the electrical panel for adding circuits, and makes it more difficult to create storage. I would rather see no finish, and three sheets of pegboard ready and waiting for my lawn tools.
A garage should have an electrical outlet in it, too.
I think a whole house surge supressor (they're only $40) wired into the main panel would be a good selling point.
The landscaping should include flowers. I think more flowers and less shrubs look better.
All of these are much less important than good, useful, well layed out space, as many other posters have emphasized.
>>I also don't like drywall in the garage. I thought I was weird, but asked 4 of my friends and they all agree with me. It wastes money, looks bad as soon as the kids get their bikes in it, shows every little ding and scrape, prevents access to the electrical panel for adding circuits, and makes it more difficult to create storage. I would rather see no finish, and three sheets of pegboard ready and waiting for my lawn tools.
Not likely this house would ever get a C/O or fire insurance without 5/8 type X installed. In a detatched garage ok........maybe.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
Depends on where you live, like lots of other things. At least as of about 10 years ago they didn't used to require DW in the garage here, except for a double layer on the common wall. It may be required now, but I wouldn't bet on it.
It's a trade-off for me. Being a packrat (ADHD trait) I want the overhead storage of open ceiling joists. But drywall does make the garage look cleaner and neater.
The wall separating an attached garage from the house needs to be fire rated, but the rest of the garage doesn't matter. My house in New York was fully inspected to code and fully insured with only the fire wall drywalled. The overhead storage is really nice.
Could that drywall just be to living spaces? Another alternative is doubled up 1/2" osb...calm down just a tad. Don't worry, we can fix that later!
........who's excited? Just pointing something out.
Never considered a firewall between an attached garage and the main structure........hhhhhhmmmmmm...........double 5/8's all the way to the gable???
Could be one of those regional things again.........last time I did this, had to have three coat of taping AND primed!
A very calm,
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
"Never considered a firewall between an attached garage and the main structure......Could be one of those regional things again"
I think it's definitely regional. I've seen houses where it's called out, but they're few and far between.
Going from memory - I think it's required in the Chicago area, but not anywhere else that I know of.No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world. [Robin Williams]
If you are talking about the fire separation construction being specified on the drawings you see in the course of your work, Boss, you will see little to no callouts specifically.
But it is there as a requirement, in most all building jurisdictions that have their local code based on one of the model codes. The new IRC has it, as did the UBC, CABO, and the SBC
Garages are considered to be dangerous in fires, with all the fuel contained therein, thus the usual code requirement for: firecode wall separation, firecode opening protection (usually just the steel door), and the floor level requirement (garage floor a step or two lower than main floor of house.)
Some jurisdictions are OK with two layers 1/2, some want 2 of 5/8, some insist on full tape, some none, others minimal. Some want 20 minute doors, manufacturer label only, others insist on 90 minute doors and steel frames, and will only pass them if they bear a Warnock Hersey label.
When I lived in the midwest, I had colleagues at work that lived across the border, in NE Ohio. It surprised me to learn that many of the rural counties in Ohio had no building code enforcement at all. No permits required, no plans review, no nothing.
"It surprised me to learn that many of the rural counties in Ohio had no building code enforcement at all. No permits required, no plans review, no nothing."
Add about half of Illinois to that list.
I think I see them called out on the plans occasionally specifically BECAUSE they're required by local codes in those towns. But the vast majority of towns who do have codes don't require one. (Again, based solely on my experience)
Seems to me most of the ones I've seen only required one layer of type X. It either had to be on the whole ceiling and house/garage wall, or on the garage/house common wall and extended all the way up to the roof.When I was a boy the Dead Sea was only sick. [George Burns]
"
48270.79 in reply to 48270.78
"It surprised me to learn that many of the rural counties in Ohio had no building code enforcement at all. No permits required, no plans review, no nothing."
Add about half of Illinois to that list."
Boss,
...and most of Wisconsin too.
Jon
The 2000 IRC only requires 1/2" DW on the garage side and a 1 3/8" min solid wood door, a steel door, or a 20 minute fire rated door.
Another thing to think about is the neighborhood. Neighborhoods near schools attract families with school-age (or soon to be school-age) children. Neighborhoods near convenient shopping are apt to attract older empty-nesters. Neighborhoods near bike trails, tennis courts, etc will attract your DINKs.
This in turn determines what kind of house will sell best.
Finish and paint the garage. Include a security system.
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski
"Front porch with raised roof over porch (9-10' high). I guess I really need entry to be as high or else it will seem like you ar going into cave with porch ceiling that high."
For what it's worth: Frank Lloyd Wright and at least one of his students, Alden Dow (well known in Midland, MI) were famous for low (6'-8" or so) entries that opened to or led to very high ceilinged rooms. Their idea was that after the low ceiling, the high one would seem even more expansive and impressive. Helps the FLW was like 5'-2" tall. They were also going for the sort of mystical, Japanese tea room idea of a low entry (in tea rooms, sometimes you have to sort of crouch or crawl through the entry door) that is sort of humbling, then you are "spiritually" uplifted by the expanse of the room you enter. (Note: I'm not a total fan of either of these archys--FLW's best idea was the "breaking out of the box" of the cramped Victorian houses, where every room was dark and separate.)
>>mystical, Japanese tea room idea of a low entry (in tea rooms, sometimes you have to sort of crouch or crawl through the entry door) that is sort of humbling, then you are "spiritually" uplifted by the expanse of the room you enter.<<
My house has one of these tearoom doorways, between kitchen and
living area. It's the real McCoy. Nothing spiritually enlightening
about it except teh pain, since you tend to hit the crown of your head
on the arch. Instant enlightenment.
These wacky architect's ideas.
The farmer and wife who built our house (they lived in the garage while they built the house--in the 30's) must have been slightly over five feet tall. I'm 6'-2", so I'm in danger of being "enlightened" (yeah, does sort of open the crown chakra!) every time I walk down the stairs from the second story and go through the doorway at the bottom, or go down the back entrance steps, or the basement stairs, or walk in the basement. Wife doean't understand why I don't use the workshop in the basement (instead I use the kids' (long since gone to college and moved away)) playroom, whichj has a 9' vaulted ceiling. I ask her how she'd like to work bent over like you're in a coal mine. Then, to help me, she put wall sconce type lights in the upstairs hallway, so I can brain myself in the dark. I replaced them one day and when she saw it, she pitched a fit and I put them back up. But, that's another story. Really, she is quite nice. (WOS.)
My solution to these low doorways is simple: duct tape and bubble wrap.
Works like a charm.
I use foam pipe insulation. I tried using bubble wrap on windows that looked right into the neighbors windows, but my then girlfriend thought I was weird. I wasn't putting aluminum foil in my hat at that point yet or anything!
Edited 10/5/2004 7:49 pm ET by Danno
There were a lot of people associated with FLW who said his primary objective with the low entry was to insure that everyone bowed reverently to his architecture when they entered one of his houses.
Whatever the reason for it - it's not a particularly endering "architectural feature" these days.Kevin Halliburton And with that, the great emporer Oz gently floated away on a curtain of hot air, laughing at the unfortunate ignorance of little people beneath him. But under his breath he cursed that stupid little dog...
I really like some of the Wright houses, but I can't think of a single one that I would copy without making substantial changes. jt8
FLW who said his primary objective with the low entry was to insure that everyone bowed reverently to his architecture
Not that he'd be arrogant that way or anything <g>
In all fairness, he seldom got much lower than 7' (which we'll tolerate for a tight staircase). And, there were always steps to and from.
The porte cochere for the Robie House springs to mind. It's a good 4' up to the massive slab roof, which goes right over the 7' tall doors. The entry foyer then steps down almost 2', and there's a two story tall staircase hallway just to one side. It would be low, but not claustrophobic (mostly).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Thing is FLW made an impact, no matter what your assesment of him or his talent. Folks are still copying his stuff. He may not have had the best building details down, but he sure as h#ll knew what looked cool. His designs are pleasing. Who else in residential is even close? If I wanna build a spec, I'm letting Frank inspire me...he was way ahead of his time. Don't worry, we can fix that later!
" I only take a bath three or four times a year ..."
I could have a lot of fun ith that one if I wasn't such a nice guy.............(-:By the time you're eighty years old you've learned everything. You only have to remember it. [George Burns]
I'm not a professional builder. I did design and build one house which got outstanding comments from friends and strangers alike, got invited to be on the charity home tour, and when it went on the market sold quickly. It sold because it wasn't like a spec house. So please take my comments as a different point of view, different likely from people with real experience in the business.
I don't like generic spec homes for a number of reasons. First, the designs tend to be bland. Then architects try to jazz them up by slapping on cheesy little features in an attempt to give them some character but the homes look like they are just slapped on in a vain attempt to impress. Having useless square footage that I'm taxed on but are unusable, unfurnishable, or unwanted spaces turns me away.
Another thing I don't like about spec homes is that they are often poorly sited or unsuited to the site. The home I'm in now (due to a forced job transfer) has not a single window on the south side of the house. The garage is on the south side, so I get no sun in the house. The neighboring house has their sun room on the north side, a dark and depressing location. It has no yard for children to play in because it's not the right house for the lot. It's sat unfinished and unsold for 2 years.
For some reason spec homes are all white. White walls, white flooring, white plumbing fixtures, white lighting, white trim, white knobs, aaaagh! Yet, when you look at model homes on larger projects, the rooms are never all white. The flooring is never white. And when you look at rooms in all the decorating magazines and all the TV shows, they are never white. So why use the one design scheme that's never used in real life? It just makes a home look like an apartment, which is what homebuyers are trying to get away from.
You may need an interior designer to advise on color, but it's probably money well spent unless you have a knack for design.
Closets tend to be thoughtless in spec homes. The house I'm in has no closet by the door. So when guests come over all the coats get dumped on furniture in another room. And the only linen closet is inside the bathroom, which is a dumb place for it because a bathroom is too damp to store linens in. The access to the attic in inside a clothes closet in a bedroom, so the attic cannot be used for storage. To get in the attic all the clothes must be taken out and the shelving taken down, and then opening the hatch spreads fiberglass all over the bedroom.
Small garages are another problem with spec homes. Most two car garages don't have room to park two cars if there is also a place for bikes, lawnmowers, grills, and all the stuff of modern life. I think adding 5' to the length and width of the typical garage size would buy a lot for a little money.
Bifold doors and vertical blinds scream "cheap construction" to me.
I don't want to make a long post, but that's a few ideas to generate discussion and thought.
http://forums.taunton.com/n/find/findRedir.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&mg=119F1647-AA90-4FA4-8E3D-4DE92D06C9AE
If there is roof above the MBR, think about putting a tray ceiling in the bedroom.
I don't know whether the style in your locale favors painted trim or stained, but if painted, do all your trim in a semigloss white and then do your gypboard walls in a light beige. Ceilings in a white.
Wire the bedrooms for centered ceiling fixtures, and offer a ceiling fan upgrade in each. Do switched top halves in the receptacles next to the beds.
Leave all the carpeting and appliances out of the finished package, and let the buyers choose their own at allowance numbers.
If you have CATV in the neighborhood, and your provider offers broadband cable internet, run CATV to every bedroom in the house. Do only one phone line into the place, but put a phone jack in all bedrooms.
Find the place in the living area most likely for the main phone with answering machine, and get the Leviton box that wall mounts and provides 12V power and a phone line within the box. It allows the owner to wall mount a cool cordless phone with integral answering machine, and not have the transformer and wire hanging out all over.
If it doesn't cost too much money, do some ceiling height variation to provide interest and room separation in today's open floor plans. Drop hall ceilings down to 7/2 or 7/4 so when you walk through a door into a room from the hall, the room's ceiling appears to jump up. Drop the ceiling over a breakfast area to give it some visual separation and make it a little more cozy.
Use the Dryerbox product in the laundry room for the dryer vent hookup. Costs you about $25, has a spiffy look, and allows the buyer to snug the dryer closer to the rear wall, housing the vent hose. Makes it look like you thought about something.
fireplaces add a lot of $$$$$
pools add nothing
master bedroom suites are a must
tons of closets and be sure to have it furnished even if you rent the furnature when doing open houses
Have all the lights on during open houses.
Good landscaping adds many $$$$$$$
Tkae a look at my website below.
That was one of my spec houses and I made great money on it!
BE well
andy
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Having a cute real estate agent didn't hurt either!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
This is not directly applicable, but let me through this in.
I am in the KC area where starter homes are $125-150k. And move up homes and the Pulte mini-manson are around $250k.
Today we had I went to a 1.1 mill Parade of Home home that was 3600 sq ft. I think that it was a spec home, but it had been sold.
A 1 1/2 year ago I looked at anothe Parade of Homes home in the same developement. It was $850k. It was a spec and a Midwest Living Magazine Feature Home.
It was crap. From the sidewalk you could see shiners around ont the trim around the windows. And inside did not get any better and in my opion the layout was as poor as the detailing.
The first home was very, very nicely detailed. All of the trim was painted, but it look perfect.
But both of them used $9.95 builders special bath fans. I have heard bikes with playing card "motors" sound better.
But I am problably the only person that went through those house that ever try the fans.
I guess that even in the upper end specs the people are not going to pay for any "quality" features that don't immediately and clearly apparent.
"I guess that even in the upper end specs the people are not going to pay for any "quality" features that don't immediately and clearly apparent."
I agree.
Tim Mooney
The other thing that goes along with you comments about the landscaping is that my RE friend says that buyers want FINSIHED, MOVE in homes.
If they are buying spec homes they want with the carpet and the applinaces.
If they where looking for something that would be "theirs" they would be looking a existing homes that needs updating or a custom.
Now this might be different, in different parts of the country, but I would look to local RE agents to see that they see.
I'm sure things are different in some places.
Here, the prime indicator is location. A dump on the shore will bring twice as much as a nice house set back with no view.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Lucky I got her before I got ugly....lolThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
master bedroom suites are a must"
Andy,
Please tell all what you mean by that (not being sarcastic)
Out here it seems to, too often mean, a first floor MBR off to a corner of the house, with a big Mstr Bath and big MBR walk-in closet....and a mini-deck (though I do like that part).
Jon
you got it JonThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Im going to give you an updated version of what Ive seen this year and the knowledge Ive gained here and else where :
Im a building inspector , which means I get to see everyone do it . I see the guys who lose in disgust and I see the top guys making a living at it. Every thing in between.
The ones who are good at it do it alot . They have their "for sale signs " in the yard the day of their permit. "built to suit" , Plans by signature xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx design builders , WE WONT BE UNDERSOLD, OPEN HOUSE EVERY DAY, etc. An add goes in the paper and stays . For sale by builder means a job listing of a cell number , office , @ home are on the sign . The same goes for your truck. Mr successful answers calls 24 hrs a day 7 days a week. He will meet you any time any where !
He hopes to sell the house before its done and pick up the realator fee which is 7 percent. He also wants to get out of paying anymore interrest. By saving the two above things , he cannot be undersold. He prices where he "needs it " , so he can start another one.
Big builders and successful realtors lead the market . Both have niches thats hard to compete with and they are tough to do business against. Builders get work done cheaper than anyone plus materials , bar none. They have left over materials that are already paid for and know where give aways are sitting. The realtor knows what to build and where and how much he can get for it. He doesnt make mistakes for he only builds for the dollar , not pride.
Tim Mooney
Right now, they are having the "Parade of Homes Tour" in our area. This is an annual thing where all the local builders showcase their recently completed (and mostly spec) homes. Don't know if anything like that is available where you live, but if I were in your shoes, I'd go in every new home in your price range and make a list of the most popular features. Study your market very carefully. Build what your market wants, not what you want. I think a lot of the style aspect of this stuff is regional, so specific advice given here may be subjective.
Unfortunately the large majority of home buyers don't really want to pay for unseen quality. They all say they want the highest quality, but when it comes down to it, nearly every time they will buy 50 sq feet extra before they pay for 12" thick foundation walls and steel in the footers. Their real perception of quality comes from good finish jobs like paint and flooring, and a few extras like wider molding, etc.
As far as the "Spec House from Hell", take it as a warning only. Personally, I think at least 75% of the mishaps are everyday stuff on the construction site that just has to be dealt with, stuff that wasn't caught in a timely manner, or simply the result of inexperienced construction management. And, there was some bad luck. The fact that the house sat forever speaks to what I said in the paragraphs above.
Good Luck,
I agreed with your last post. Ill also add some to it.
In #3 addition where they are building 2200 to 2500 sq ft houses with expensive roofs the common in the addition rules.
The type of house would need to be the same or close to. A builder that I know is putting in yards and lanscape and it has proven that his houses sell over ones that dont. I cant get over the thing with people that cant see ahead, but its true. Theres a builder who has been stuck with two houses for over a year that didnt lanscape. This other builder has probably sold 10 since those were built, . Those two got landscaping last week, but as of this date they are still sitting there. Hes not putting in sprinklers , just sod and watering.
Tim Mooney
In the master suite provide his and hers toilets. Its one of those things that just appeal to people. Also ample if not more closet space. Everyone has crap they dont want to get rid of and storage solutions both in and out of the master suite will add selling points.
Paint, dont be afraid to buy more then two colors of paint.
Tile, dont be afraid to buy more then one color of tile.
Kitchens. Putting a 9ft ceiling in a kitchen will add some roominess w/o going overboard on SqFt.
One bedroom should be designed with a home office in mind. That means a few double outlets and one or two cable/phone jacks. Use cat5 for the phone lines in case DSL is in your area.
To make money on specs you have to have a friendly floor plan that sells fast. Interest payments will eat your profits so try to offer something that sets your house apart from something so basic that its bland.
During your open house consider going to a rental store and rent some furniture, not a lot, just enough to make it look like a home.
I disagree about omiting the carpet, the house wont look finished and will detract from its selling value as an unfinished house. People dont want to look at something thats not done. Carpet stores sales people can help you find a product that will match your needs.
Dont be afraid to pick up one or a few decorating books, women read them and you can get some ideas on colors.
If I were to add any additional comments it would be to talk to lots of real estate agents and women. Both know a lot about what sells.
Having a handicapped dtr. I suggest hallways 4' wide, 3-0 doors: pocket even, recepticals 18 - 22" above floor, switches 48". Very little cost, also, blocking for handicapp rails in showers at appropriate heights. In short: a handicapped accessable house except for cabinets. Almost no additional cost, but could add 5K in value to the right buyer.
The Dryer Box is a great idea. I agree that it shows you were thinking. Recently read that the whirlpool/ garden tubs were on the way out in favor of "tower showers".
As mentioned, storage is a turn-on. How much does it really cost extra for a few cabinets in some extra space in the garage.
Best Mentioned so far, IMHO: Try to sell it from the day you get the permit.
Good luck! Maybe you can post some pics and let everyone here know how it's going?
I've never built a spec house on my own, but I have worked on a bunch. The happiest builders did not open the house until they were done. When they listed at groundbreaking, and got a contract during construction, things changed from being a spec to a custom. It's not what all builders want.
I am going to start a spec, myself, in the spring. I've worked on custom houses for a long time, I'm looking forward to not working on them. Hey, that doesn't mean I'm not stealing a lot of the features I see here, though<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Yeah, you are right. But sold is sold either way. Hope you do good on your spec. Maybe I can learn some when you post your pics and a success story. Good luck!
Most surveys say that they only get used 8 times a year.
A survey or two that I saw (and of course cannot now find) was showing an average closer to two use per owner (or about 8 in the life of the tub).
I'd be a lot more inclide to a "spa" tub in a private, external, enclosure off the master suite.
Also what tricks to the open house showing. I have heard about setting the lights just right, a/c on (or heat). What about colors, smells what works best?
Might be worth paying for an interior decorator. Might be worth clling up a couple & kicking the tires. They can do things like "set decorate" a house (sometimes). Usually, just like for a Parade of Homes, they'll want to put up an advert or two.
First get a handle on your customer. We have no idea whether the numbers you quote for "going price" are an entry level unit for a new-hire ditch digger or what passes locally for a professional couple's "mansion".
As bad as stereotypes are, they apply here. While everyone wants to imagine themselves holding fancy dinner parties, at lower income levels people will be more attracted to a family room that seems well suited to hosting Superbowl parties. Having put a little thought into where the big screen TV will fit is critical.
Anyway, you get the general picture. Get yourself a vision of Mr. and Mrs. House Buyer and imagine what would be attractive to them, keeping in mind that they probably don't really know what they want/need, but have an "image" based on their lifestyle, and you're selling to that "image", not their real needs.
(Of course, for your own moral redemption, you also need to consider their actual needs, and sometimes you can turn the filling of real needs to your advantage if you go to the trouble of pointing things out. I've even seen houses displayed where they had small signs pointing out extra outlets for the computer, etc. The sign probably cost more than the extra outlet.)
A long time ago, I worked for a builder that built a house or less per year. He toldme, "always build a house that you will live in!" More reasons for that than can be listed here.
About the landscaping thing...very important. I know another builder who always seemed to have troble selling his 'homes'. He was very weak on site work. Poor sloping, grading and drainage work, combined with no landscaping + NO CURB APPEAL! You don't need to go crazy but, sidewalks and a lwan goes along ways.
No one has mentioned a full basement, better yet a full walk out basement if you can. You dont have to finish it, but if you keep that in mind when doing the mechanicals, that space becomes a big plus in the way of potential for someone looking at your house.
Pet peeve........please dont put oak mouldings on pine door jambs with pine doors. FWIW, detailed mouldings, painted are very in and are very rich. Goe visit any old colonial, and all you will see is painted moulding.
Good luck!
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
I'm with you on that pet peeve. If you've got to have your oak millwork, do it all the way . . . doors, frames, and moldings.
Can't fathom why one would build a house in the $200K price range and use oak millwork, when you can buy FJ yellow poplar moldings, factory primed, for less, and then only need to give it all two coats of acrylic finish. The oak would require a stain, then three coats clear, to look acceptable.
Spend it instead on kitchen and bath sizzle.
Yeah, curb appeal is critical, as is the view you get when you first step into the house, when you first see the kitchen, etc. It's likely to be particularly important to the wife (who is the one you're really selling to). If the hubby can picture his big screen TV and a overstuffed fake leather couch then he's happy. (Or, on the high end, if the hubby can picture a pleasant study, with a well-designed computer niche AND a big-screen TV, he's happy.)
In fact, enlist your wife/girlfriend to do a "walk-through" with you, looking at the plans and hopefully an elevation to get a sense of what would add curb appeal.
Here's some thoughts from a homeowner, worth about what you paid for them:
The only way we have to judge quality in a home is by the quality of the finish. Most of us are not experts on construction and can't look at a wall and say: wow, 2x6 and dead-on straight, here is some quality. We can, however, see paint drips, drywall cracks, crooked tiles, and wrinkled carpet. We use the quality of the finish to try and determine the quality of the home. So spend money there. You are fine to paint in builder's beige or other neutral colors, people will personalize it when they buy it and it is hard to envision your own stuff in a turquiose room.
Most remodelling surveys show that the money rooms are the kitchen and the bath, respectively. New houses should follow suit - spend the money there. Don't build a gorgeous home and then put linoleum counters in it, use stone. Put in undercabinet lighting and have an island or a peninsula in your design, preferably with work facing out towards the house. Put in a master suite that can fit more than a cramped shower, have some wow to to it. Personally, I could care less about this stuff (the majority of baths in this house are taken by my 3 year old daughter), but it is a popular remodelling and homebuying theme. Put a light over the tub, and in the shower as well. Men bathe in the dark, women don't. Have space around the tub for candles and tchockies. It's no surprise that the money rooms of the house are also the ones that appeal most to women - remember who that bathroom is really for.
Closets, closets, closets. Master should have a walkin. There is NEVER enough closet space in a home, so if you think you have enough, add more. I love to discover clever storage under the stairs or other unexpected (but accessible) places. Make sure some of these closets are more than a rod and shelf. At least in the master have a real closet design with thought out shelving, places for shoes, etc.
Landscaping. Have sprinklers and grass and some focus plants. Most people max out to buy the house and there is nothing left over for immediate improvements. But nobody wants to live in a dirt field for the next 3 years while they recover. Build that into their mortgage for them. If your neighborhood is close, a fence. Don't just run the sidewalk straight from the road - it looks like you are going for the cheapest solution and totally lacks curb appeal.
Personally: I like extra garage, more electrical outlets than normal, and lots of light in every room, more yard than house. But except for the light thing I am unusual in my tastes. I disagree with the poster who said run just one phone line but into every bedroom. Put a phone jack in every common room, bedroom, den, and even one in the basement. Make it all capable of carrying 2 phone lines(at least). If you are planning to put vinyl mini-blinds in a room, don't.
I approve your message !
Tim Mooney
Why thank you! Your approval makes me a little giddy (honestly).
Here are the 2 specs we built and sold (so far):
http://stan.standarek.com
and
http://spec.standarek.com
The first one was sold before being finished and it turned to bo be a PITA. The buyers wanted to change this and that... AAAAHHHHH! Never again! The second one was on the market for couple months (no agents involved) . Currently, we're building a bigger and more expensive spec (almost $600K), and here's what we're putting in to make it stand out:
Price it right (one of the least expensive in the area)
Full brick - no siding or dryvit
9' basement & 1st floor, arches, tray ceilings, etc...
All hardwood floor - no carpet
Colors, colors, and more colors! The way we see it - if the client doesn't like it, they can repaint it - which is what they would do anyway if the finish was white.
Custom maple kitchen cabinets/SS appliances/granite countertops throughout
2 jacuzzi tubs
Fully sodded + some landscaping
Etc... Etc....
One thing that can really "sex up" a room fairly quickly and cheaply is some form of cove lighting. Undercabinet lighting is also "sexy", but probably more expensive by the time you're done, and often inappropriate or simply annoying after living with it awhile. (Note, however, that some form of undercabinet lighting may be required in some areas to meet code for lighting levels/efficiency.)
With closets, the appearance of size is important. Probably a narrow/deep closet looks larger than the equivalent SF in a wide/shallow one. Having at least the master closet equipped with a wire "shelving system" is good, though be careful to not make it looked cramped.
Don't spend extra money on things like premium toilets -- folks won't know the difference from a standard unit anyway. Do, however, pick reliable fixtures, so that you don't have to deal with callbacks.
Things like sprinklers, alarm systems, etc, may or may not be worth the investment -- it all depends on what the house next door has, and what the local climate and security situation is. Around here neither one would earn its keep except in a higher-end home.
Aimless, you've got a lot of good examples in your post, but you also have to keep in mind the price range. Stone counter-tops are not found on entry-level houses nor on some mid-level.
But clever usage of some of these upgrades need not cost a lot. Especially the clever storage options and small touches (extra outlets, et al).
And you're right, most people will judge the overall quality of the house based on the finishing. That will have to be in your mind as you design/build it.jt8
Stone has become quite affordable, and in this day and age it is considered OK to mix surfaces - so you can have stone on one counter(the most visible, not necessarily the most practical), tile (yuck) on another, butcher block on another. In the event that a slab is outside the price range, stone tile is still preferable to vinyl/linoleum from a buyer's mind. Around here 200K is decidedly NOT entry level, more like upper mid level and I would expect something other than sheet goods on the countertop and floor.
That said, I'm not a big fan of granite or of marble counters. The ones that aren't too dark either stain or are too 'busy'. From an ease of maintenance viewpoint, I can see why granite is soo popular, but I'd spend my personal dollars elsewhere. However, for a spec home that I want to sell, I'd use lower grade windows and concentrate money in the rooms that sell the house.
Not to pick this post but tile sells here along with some flag stone. Its a pretty expensive deal if contracted out , but some nice savings can be had by the builder doing it himself with the purchase of a nice tile saw and some learning. I spent a while on a tile forum last year to finish getting educated and its payed off. A builder needs a few licks to make it to compete against developers and realtors building homes. Any thing a builder can do to set himself apart from someone hiring all the work done. Every sub makes a lick!
Probably the biggest downfall of a builder spec is that hes a man. Sorry guys.
Tim Mooney
Tile sells here too, I just don't like cleaning grout lines on a counter.
Ahh , you were talking about counters only.
On a nice house Granite is a nice seller . They are starting to do stainless steel.
Tim Mooney
They are starting to do stainless steel
Over in your neck of the woods? Hmmmm. Folks look at me like I'm crazy for mentioning it here in North Little Rock!
Leigh
Sombody held an open house and it had a commercial kitchen.
Tim Mooney
Ah, makes sense, now. Neat that they had it, though.
Stainless counters are practical and easy to clean, but usually seen as too industrial. As granite becomes old hat with the high-end crowd, though, it will be interesting to see what material becomes the next must-have one.
I've thought about stainless for an island--I have a work table I bought at a restaurant auction that I love. It is a dream to work on, and so easy to clean. My practical side keeps thinking about those big commercial kitchen stainless sinks with integrated counters. . .
Leigh
I went to National Home Center a while back in Russellville. They have a whole section of commercial stainless appliances. Have you ever looked at a commercial refridgerator? They got the heavy stoves , grills , cook tops , even commercial looking dishwashers. You can buy their best fridge there for only 6000 dollars. If you go cheaper it will cost you 5000. Im thinking that dishwasher was 1800. I dont remember what the cook stoves cost but they are awsome looking . I figgure Stainless in peoples homes and the appliances that go with it is about money to show. They wouldnt have a whole section of the stuff if they werent selling it. Theres no telling what a stainless kitchen would cost .
Tim Mooney
A modest allowance nowadays for the kitchen appliances in a small custom home, when the owners are expecting the high end look, is about $20,000.
We begin with a $6,600 refrigerator, move to the double wall oven at $2,500, and take it from there.
Wow--Russellville's National Home Center sounds a bit more upscale than the one down the street from me, although last time I wandered through it seemed they had changed their focus from all-around lumber/hardware store to having a lot more furniture and decorating items.
Well, I won't tell you what the range I want for my new house costs! In my defense, I am an avid cook--it's the most fulfilling hobby I have--and I will use every BTU and every burner, not to mention the low simmer capability.
I don't hold much truck with folks who have show kitchens that are only used by caterers. It's their money, I guess, and they can spend it how they choose, but what a waste!!!
My kitchen is my shop, as I tell my husband, and the tools in it are chosen because of their functionality, not their brand name. While I am going to have a range that cost more than my first car (and I'm SO excited about it's capabilities), I'm taking my existing fridge, a 4-year old white Kenmore side-by-side, which functions perfectly well coupled with the old fridge in the utility room for extra storage.
Leigh
You probably know this, but in case you don't. Many true commercial ranges can't be installed in a typical residential kitchen because of the clearance requirements to combustibles.
Another aspect is insurance--without the fire-suppression equipment used in commercial kitchens, most homeowners' insurance won't touch it with a 10-foot pole, and probably won't even with the additional equipment.
The commercial-style residential ranges do a pretty good job, though. You can't get the ultra-high BTUs with them, but that much power is rarely required at home, anyway. For example DCS range I'm looking at will more than suit my needs, and is a far cry from the Magic Chef I'm currently using!
From a price aspect, it would be nice to be able to intall the commercial ones at home, though. You gotta wonder if the 400% difference in price between comparable residental and commercial ranges is all in insulation and automatic pilot. I think it probably has more to do with what the market will bear.
Leigh
I learned that in school this past summer. I havent inspected any myself as belief it or not , most of the high end homes are in the country . They are out of my jurisdiction.
What Im hoping is that they are commercial look alikes. State inspector spent about 20 minutes on that very subject. We are supposed to read the labels and act . He advised people are putting in commercial not knowing .
Bill, let me ask you a question that was on my test:
A church is being built and wants a commercial kitchen for they have a large congregation. Can they have commercial appliances?
You are correct.
Tim Mooney
"A church is being built and wants a commercial kitchen for they have a large congregation. Can they have commercial appliances?"
This is completely out of my experience. I am a DIYer with a background in electrical engineering.
But I try anyway.
First, as far as I know the commerical equipment can be installed in a home if they meet all of the requirements. That might mean special testing to see if they meet the safety requirement of the appropirate standards for that type of appliance. That would require a lot of digging into not only the codes, but the actual standards that the codes are based on.
And that you can install them in according with the manufactures spec's.
Now a church is no a residence, but it is a commerical building. But in commercial codes that are lots of catagories based on the usage of the building.
The requirements for a service garage is going to be very different from those for a school.
But I don't see any limitations of using the commerical equipment in the church as long as the kitchen meets the appropirate section of the code for commercial kitchens.
Now I know your back ground .
The question tripped most of the class. It was a question in using what we had learned and to use our judgement that is not in the code book . He told us that we would have to make decisions from our interpatations. Hence ; required by the administative authority.
In Arkansas no personal dwelling can use commercial appliances because they are dangerous to untrained people. They are disallowed in residential.
All commerical kitchens must have plan approval from the state board of health.
All appliances must be installed according to label.
Answer;
Although it is a commercial application, church help is volunteer . The help is not trained and and does not apply to the labor board that does not allow anyone under the age of 18 operating stoves , grills and ovens in commercial applications. That help also cannot recieve workmans compensation and therefore cannot operate commercial appliances .
There also could be kids in the kitchen unsupervised of any age. Those kids must be covered by liability insurance. If the equipment listing requires only trained help to operate or an age limit , the liability insurance may not pay. [ I wouldnt ]
A church shall not have commercial appliances, unless they prove to be legal with the department of health which would require keeping hired help.
Tim Mooney
Thanks again for the info, Tim. Your perspective as an inspector is always appreciated, and I find it particularly valuable information as an Arkansas resident.
By the way, I happily surprised my builder by knowing about the new OSHA residential construction compliance enforcement here. He'd just been to a informational meeting on it, has ordered safety harnesses for his crew (Compliance in a Bucket) and is going to retrain them on safety requirements.
Leigh
Your welcome .
Tim Mooney
That is intersesting about the church appliances. Are you working under the ICC? Or what is your code? In NC, we also have fire marshalls involved places that have public meetings. It's so weird that building codes aren't standardized yet, they all build to the minimum anyway<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Not a spec house, this is what I'm building for myself:
2300 sf, 1-1/2 story timberframe, SIP exterior, Hardiplank siding, standing seam roof. Basement is Reward ICF's, 8' high, 8" concrete thickness. Outer foam covered with Durock and cultured stone or stucco-type coating, depending on cost and exposure. Anderson 400-series windows all around.
Basement is walk-out with double 3/0 door and three 2/6 x 2/0 awning windows. Basement is fully finished, 1500 square feet.
First floor deck is Open Joist 2000 floor trusses and Advantech floor sheathing, staple-up radiant PEX tubing, Buderus gas boiler, Amtrol Boilermate and Central Boiler outdoor wood boiler for primary heat and HW. Electrical 200 amps, whole-panel surge suppressor, four circuit transfer switch for generator hookup. No cable, will have a dish. 500 gallon propane tank buried outside, no natural gas here.
Stairs to first floor finished, 42" wide. First floor is all hardwood, 6-panel pine doors, dark-painted gloss trim, wainscoting on lower half of walls. Phone jacks in all rooms, cable (dish) jacks in all rooms, electric to code, light and fan boxes in center of ceiling, track lights mounted to timbers in kitchen and dining room. Kitchen is semi-commercial, stone counters, butcher block island, DCS 6-burner gas range and pro hood, Maytag Trio fridge (deeper than "commercial-look" models), Miele DW. Sink is stainless apron-front style, one large bowl (expensive!). Tile floors in foyer, coat closet at front door, tile in kitchen, custom cherry/walnut cabinets with all drawers in base cabs, glass doors in uppers. Pull-out faucet.
Master bath has large tile shower w/ 2 showerheads, 2 lavs, one toilet, basic but reliable, white (Kohler). Blocking in walls for grab bars. Extra large master closet with his/hers sides. High-wall windows in MBR/bath to let light in but allow privacy and wall space for furniture. Lights on walls, dimmers, switched outlets. MBR located on first floor. Linen closet separate from bath, located near laundry room. Main floor laundry, stacking Kenmore HE3 washer/dryer (worth every dime!) and plenty of counter space and cabinets for towels, detergent, etc. Laundry chute from second floor bath.
Second floor stairs also 42" wide. Two baths, four basic bedrooms for the kids, each kid has their own room all wired for possible electronic overload (extra outlets, phone and cable). All phone wiring is CAT-5. All electric is 12 gauge, even 15 amp circuits. Baths each have same toilet as in MBR, one lav in Corian countertop, one-piece tub/shower unit (for easy cleaning). Tile floors. Bedrooms have sheetrock walls, sound insulation, 6-panel doors, clear finished trim and hardwood floors.
Outside, double french door from dining room opens onto IPE deck with built-in barbecue, landscaped with stone walls (steep site) and native plants. We only cleared about 1/2 acre in dense woods to build the house, with all the trees remaining onsite and either turned into firewood for the boiler, or sawn into lumber for trim and cabinets. Site yielded 6000 board feet of cherry and white ash.
No carpet, no laminates, no wallpaper, no formica, no lauan, bifolds or blinds.
Not intended as gloating, just giving people some ideas. I have seen a lot of badly designed houses, including the Mcmansions with the wildly changing rooflines and 5000 sf of useless space. I didn't want that to happen to me. Anybody wanna e-mail me with questions, be happy to answer. This house is costing me well under $100 per square foot to build, including all the site work.
Mind if I stop by??
Done a bit of thinking I see!
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
Are you building this for yourself, or having it built for yourself? I'm sure you know, there's a huge amount of price difference. Got a GC, & on what basis? What's getting subbed...yada, yada, yada<G> Sounds like some nice digs, though Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Well, mix of both. I am doing as much of it as I can myself, but there are some things that I've subbed out or shared the workload. I am acting as my own GC. For example - I have a local guy who did most of my site excavating, but when he leaves for the weekend, he leaves behind his rubber-tracked excavator and the keys. I do a bit of cleanup work, excavate my utility trenches, etc. The electrician has me buy all my own materials, but he will do the labor; same for the plumber. The trades around here are all so busy that they don't mind this arrangement at all. I carry liability insurance for my business that covers this arrangement.
The timberframe is a big savings - I took all the logs from my own land, bought a used sawmill and milled the frame myself. I'm having a journeyman framer come in and do all the joinery and raising. All the flooring, trim and cabinets are from wood I milled, and I already have a decent woodshop, so I'm making all my own cabinets and trim instead of buying them.
I have two things going for me - a lot of time and a lot of friends. This place is taking me almost two years to build, but I am in no hurry because we don't have to be out of where we live now at any particular time. I spent a dozen years making friends in the construction industry locally, working for a big GC, so I can still call all my subs from back then and give them a day's or week's work if they need some fill-in time. There's also a lot of barter involved - engineering or surveying work in exchange for materials and/or labor. One guy had me design a new septic system for him, and in exchange, I get 100 yards of screened topsoil.
A lot of the "features" of this place are things that a future owner would never consider the value of - full footing drains, insulated slab, heavy waterproofing membrane, homerun wiring and structured phone, hot and cold water manifolds, all floors heated by radiant tubing, air space behind siding, "cold roof" system to prevent ice dams, proper site grading, etc. I have spent years deciding how I wanted things built so that it would be a user-friendly, foolproof house that needed little maintenance. I intend to retire in this place, and by the time that happens, the house will be over thirty years old.
Your house sounds a lot like the one we will be building soon--down to the sink and the range! I'm happy to hear about another person here building a timberframe with SIPs, etc. I'm sure I'll have more questions for you, and already have one.
You're doing a cold roof? I'm assuming you have SIPs on the roof, too, right? How are you making it a cold rather than hot roof? Would you mind explaining the details a bit to me?
Ice dams are not a concern here in Arkansas, but my contractor is concerned about the hot roof we currently have planned (metal roof is not an option where we are building, so we are going with asphalt shingles).
Thanks,
Leigh
Cold roof with metal panels works easily enough because you put furring strips on top of the SIPS and attach the roof panels to the furring. Voila - instant air space. The cold roof for asphalt is more expensive - basically furring strips, then another layer of sheathing on top of the furring, then the roofing materials. The air space is between the sheathing layers.
That's what I figured. Thanks.
Leigh
You sound like a person who can build a house<G>
I'm curious about the cold roof airspace. Do your furring strips run across the roof, or up the roof? Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Ahhh, I don't even pretend to be a builder, just have some good experience and a decent amount of time spent learning as much as I can.
I would think the furring strips would go across the roof - perpendicular to the metal panels. Some folks might think differently.
Jon
Don't worry, I didn't call you a builder<G>
I would like some info on the cold roof, though. I have a metal roof on strapping. Ceilings are insulated, nothing in the rafters. I get condensation on the inside of the roof panels, but there's so much ventilation that it all drys off before it drips.
With the furring strips running perpendicular to the roofing, and on top of SIPs I'm imagining a damming of those drips. Is that paranoia, or what? Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Paranoia? You have no idea. I was thinking along the same lines, although in terms of airflow and not condensation.
I'm paranoid about everything I do regarding this house. Changed my mind a million times on design, materials, placement, everything. I want to make sure I don't have any problems somewhere down the road. Want to make sure everything is accessible for maintenance as well. Probably why it's already been a year and all I have is a foundation and site work done, well drilled and the electric line is in.
Jon
"I would think the furring strips would go across the roof - perpendicular to the metal panels. "
Dumb question from an ignorant homeowner: wouldn't that interrupt the airflow and defeat the 'cold roof' you are trying to set up?
Well, that's the penalty for thinking, in my case. I would be trying to set up some sort of rake vent so that the airflow would be along the roof and not up-down. Not sure if that would work.
International Fire Code . NFPA
Tim Mooney
its not so much building codes but states health codes the church has to complay with if they want a kitchen.
In two states that I know of, the state health department will shut down any church kitchen if it is not built to standards requirements of restaurant and use commercial equipment. The health department will close it if the church does not comply and drags its feet.
Edited 10/6/2004 7:57 pm ET by fredsmart
Fred read my post to Bill, please.
Tim Mooney
Bingo, aberwacky! I have a down-the-road dream house that I'd like to put in a commercial sink. I'd probably raise it up a fair amount, and then create a cabinet front for it (so that it blends in better w/ cabinets). Might even include the commercial sprayer.
But talk about plenty of sink space and low maintenance!
jt8
Edited 10/6/2004 1:01 pm ET by JohnT8
Something like this?
View Image
Here's the faucet I plan on having: the Kohler Promaster K-6330. It's a residential take on the commercial kitchen faucet. Not inexpensive, unfortunately. http://www.us.kohler.com/onlinecatalog/detail.jsp?item=322602&prod_num=6330&module=&frm=
View Image
Leigh
Yup, that's it. Probably go with a double-basin. Not sure how to handle the backsplash yet, whether to get one like in your pic that has a SS backsplash, or one without it that you could then put tile/stone behind.
Build a cabinet front to it (under the SS sink lip). Couple doors in front of the basin area and maybe custom cabinets under each of the wings (hmm wonder if you could fit a dishwasher partially under one wing?).
That's the right style of sprayer, but I'd probably combine it with a faucet. Have the sprayer off to the side on a hook. Garbage disposal on one side.
I don't know how sparkly new you want your sink to look, however if you weren't adverse to a sink with a little wear, you could pick a used one up at auction (either a demolition auction or a resaurant going out of business auction). In the spring, I saw a triple-basin sink with faucet sell (no side wings) for $50. It was in an out-of-business grocery store (deli section). It wasn't the right layout for what I had in mind, and had just a bit more wear than I'm looking for, but the price was right.
A bit of wear adds character. Too much wear looks junky unless you work a distressed look into the whole kitchen.
jt8
The expensive whirlpool tubs only getting used 8 times a year? doesn't surprise me.
What I have never understood is why people put picture windows in behind the tub. I could understand it if you had a view.... but the vast majority of them don't. Your tub 'view' is the neighbors house 100 feet away. Which means unless you like flashing the neighbors, you're gonna have blinds on there, so why not just go with a window for natural light in the first place, which could be smaller/higher up the wall and not require as expensive of a window/s or as much $$ on the window coverings.
But then again, as many of the replies have suggested, LOGIC has nothing to do with people's puchasing habits.
Edited 10/5/2004 3:55 pm ET by JohnT8
Had a chance to observe dueling spec houses in the same neighborhood.
Both were about the same size and had similar lots.
One caught a lot more attention and a faster sale than the other for about 10% more money.
Winning features included:
Farmer's porch on front
Garage that did not face the street
Shower for 2 (more practical than whirlpool)
9 foot ceilings on main level
'Ready to finish' basement (mechanicals and plumbing placed well for this, drywall ceiling, and a decent stairway)
Laundry room
May not suit your situation, but these were the things that got the most attention from buyers.
Garage that did not face the street
that's starting to be a huge selling point around here ...
"snout-houses" are out.
jeffBuck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
"Shower for 2 (more practical than whirlpool)"
Im gonna approve that ! Whhhoooeeee!
Actually I like the rest of it to if it fit the plan and size of house as you mentioned.
Tim Mooney
2 Spec home stories:
New Mid-priced spec home. Builder screwed up the oak bannister on the front stairs - right next to the front door. House would not sell. We asked the realtors about it. They said that once buyers saw the stairs they got the impression that the house was not qualilty. We had the builder redo the woodwork on the stairs and the home sold for full list price in 2 weeks.
Older home renovation. I bought a nice beveled glass storm door for the front door. My partner got mad at me for spending the money on the front door. I told him that most buyers make a decision within 10-20 seconds of walking into the house.
We sold the house. The buyer put it in the contract that the beveled glass storm insert must stay with the house. Obviously it was important to the buyer.
Bottom line - make sure the entry to the house has something to hook the buyer.
Mike K
Amateur Home Remodeler in Aurora, Illinois
Around here most new homes are custom prefabs.
Sounds like an oxymoron, right? Anyway, the prefab
makers set up fancy display houses to lure customers.
One trick in the display house is to make the foyer
much larger than would be normally practicable. On
entering the display house people immediately get a
grand feeling from the impact of the size of the foyer.
When I was helping frame houses in an upscale neighborhood, there were grandiose entrances, but they were to impress neighbors and visiters. I used to joke that my whole house would fit in some of these foyers. One was two stories tall and had a fake dormer. The other big thing in this neighborhood were the complicated, multi-pitched roofs--looked like a mountain range. Those were fun to frame and shingle! One entry I worked on had a 17/12 pitched roof over it. The weird thing about that house was that the back of the main roof was only a 3/12 where the front was 12/12--looked like a remodel job where they cram more rooms under the old roof and just lift the eve end of it--looked bad.
Sounds like the builder had curb appeal on
the brain.
Funny thing, this reminds me of a book I am reading
about Palladio, the original fine homebuilder (was
both mason and architect). Palladio's houses were
often finished just as well from the back as they
were from the front. And then there was Rotonda,
which had an impressive facade on each of the four
sides.
Yeah, the big, two-story foyers were the in thing around here about 20 years ago, even on relatively downscale homes. Don't see them nearly as much anymore, though. I think people are putting a little less emphasis on external impressiveness vs "first sight" internal impressiveness.