I have the opportunity to purchase my wife’s grandparent’s (now deceased) hobby farm at a very attractive price due to a court ordered forced sale. Lot’s of sibling (7) infighting.
The facts are:
75 acres of partially wooded (~1/2 are mature trees, including 100’s 60′ pines), 400′ of lake frontage, 30miles from downtown Milwaukee (Oconomowoc). I can aquire the land for about 1/10 of what developed non-lakefront lots go for around here.
My intention would be to develop/subdivide the land. Keeping a single lot for myself.
So….. anybody have any experience with doing something like this?
Jon
Replies
No, but hurry up and buy it stupid...lol
Be right now!!!!!!
andy
My life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
We subdivided a much smaller piece a few years ago, jon. And we have bought and sold a little real estate through the years. What are your concerns?
That sounds pretty utopian. Makes me wonder why you wouldn't just keep it all for yourself.
Jon,
Wisconsin lake properties within that distance of MKE have done nothing but appreciate in value over the years. Oconomowoc is a great location.
We have a place up on Big Cedar Lake (Slinger/West Bend) about a half-hour north of Milwaukee.
If you get the property at that much of a discount, you can't go wrong, and you can use the equity to develop it when the time comes.
Be very judicious when selecting what you're going to keep for yourself and what you're going to develop and sell. Once you get off the lake, it's hard (financially) to get back on the water.
"If you get the property at that much of a discount, you can't go wrong, and you can use the equity to develop it when the time comes."
MONGO,
To put a curve in it, Papst farms (2000 acres) is being developed about 2 miles away. In the short term that is going to devalue the land or at least keep the price from climbing too much. When completed it will anchor that area and raise the value. The problem is the timetable. Clearly if I buy it, it will be a long term "buy and hold" but the investors still want a time line before they put their money down, as well as an assessment of the risks.
Jon
---"Clearly if I buy it, it will be a long term "buy and hold" but the investors still want a time line before they put their money down, as well as an assessment of the risks."---
That is hard to come by, short of inventing something in a hurry.
If you are buying it that cheap, what is their worry? You can always sell it again, if you can't go on with the plan, to an experienced developer and, if not make some, at least not lose much.
Worse to make promises and start plans in a hurry that later you may wish had taken more time to develop.
How about getting an expert in your area on board? Some local developer may want to participate and can give advice.
Remember that, once it is bought, the normal expenses on it will start running, it may not make any money for long time. The up front cost is just the start, you need to have some deep pockets to carry on from that.
Lived in Oconomowoc for a while. Can't think that area will do anything but appreciate forever.
Good place to risk some money, if you have it or can think a way to pay it back if borrowing it.
Right now, real estate seems to be one of the more secure investments, if using common sense about the kind of land and location. Do your homework.
Be sure to get a clear title and that there are no past taxes/other liabilities to pay, if any, that you can't afford.;-)
WOW!
A million bucks for 75 acres ???
That's alike $13,333 per acre. No way would land sell for that around here.
Sorry I can't offer you a lot of advice on developing it. But I can say land is awfully hard to get ahold of. (At least around here) And they dang sure ain't making any more of it.
I'd jump at the chance if it doesn't put you into too much of a financial bind.
Women over 50 don't have babies because they would put them down and forget where they left them.
Boss,
On the west side of Indianapolis, production homes are gobbling up the land at $20-30k per acre.
Swallow that one. West of here, you can still buy farmland for $4-8k per acre.
Not to bring up a sore sublect, but did you ever sell that spec house and how did you make out?
John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
http://www.lazarobuilders.com
Hmm . Farm land is 1000 per acre here for the good stuff.
Tim Mooney
"...did you ever sell that spec house and how did you make out?"
Not sold yet. But there's a sort of a deal in the works.
A while back I started a thread called "The Great Swap" It more or less explained what's in the works at the moment.
Here's the thread: The Great Swap
And some pics:
The Great Swap - Pics
Basically, there's a couple in town who want to buy the spec house. But they can't buy our house until theirs sells. So we're looking at a sort of swap where they buy the "spec house from hell" and we buy theirs.
We just signed an offer on their house yesterday. It's contingent on them buying the spec house. They're supposed to respond by Monday.
If this falls through, we've decided we're going to move into the spec house. We need more room anyway. The house we live in now is about 1,100 square feet and we've outgrown it. But we'll probably wait until summer to move, when the boys aren't in school, and DW is off too. (She's a teacher)
If men had periods, they'd brag about the size of their tampons.
Good luck with your swap!....looks like you might have room for your John Deere collection behind the house! :)John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
http://www.lazarobuilders.com
WorkshopJon,
Our company is split into a land development side and a sitework/underground utility side. We build residential subdivisions in the Indianapolis area, typically 500-acre projects split over five to seven years. I am familiar with zoning issues in my area and costs for developing a project and would be happy to help you as I can.
A big concern here is getting proper zoning when agriculatural land is purchased for development. A typical process is for a land planner to come up with a concept of the project (street layouts, housing pads, lake locations for storm retention, etc.). This is typically presented to various zoning boards to get approval and the land rezoned from A to R-1 or R-2. Then full drawings are prepared and submitted. Construction drawing approvals and the primary plat (subdividing the land) follow.
Costs for a large development are substantial. Land here is in the $35,000 - $50,000 an acre range for developable ag land. Density affects costs, we do nice high-end subdivisions with a typical density of 2-2.5/lots an acre. This includes common area, lakes, streets, etc. Our typical cost for earthwork, finish grading, storm sewer, subsurface under curbs, sanitary sewer to a municipal utility, water main to a municipal utility (assuming no significant off-site runs or lift stations, etc.), curbs, asphalt, etc. - in short the place is ready for builders to start constructing homes, is $25,000 - $30,000 per lot. Engineering fees add another 10% or so to the cost of the project.
So your project will depend on some variables - how much street would you have to run, or are the lots going to have road frontage? Are you extending utilities, or is it a well/septic environment? If you have lots of road frontage to subdivide the property up on, you may find that you still have to do some substantial drainage work to be able to subdivide the property. I know of people here subdividing farm road frontage facing that situation. Such a lot here out of the city might sell for $20-$30k for one acre, in which the farmer averages cost of $3000-$4000/acre for the whole farm. The person moving in will provide well/septic. Some of the people I know who've done this have had to invest $2000 per lot in engineering fees and $5000 per lot in regulated drain work.
So detail your plan a little better and I will answer any questions I am competent in. Something to think about is you sound stretched on the capital just to acquire the land. You might partner with a sitework contractor or a developer in your area to share the risk/reward and capital cost of the development. You may even make more money doing it that way. I occasionally get someone who has 60 acres! and wants to be a developer. We usually turn them away. They get hosed in the industry, not because of people taking advantage but because of their ignorance in controlling costs. For example, smart developers can look at a plan and see a way to save moving .1 foot of dirt across a site. The engineer doesn't like the extra effort to make the drainage work, and inexperience would never notice it. one-tenth a foot on one acre = 161 c.y. of dirt, at an average unit of $2.75/c.y. in this area to move, = $445. On 2.5 / lots an acre with a profit of maybe $5000 per lot, = 3.5% of your margin. There are a hundred little things like this that mean profit or loss on a job.
remodeler
"...will set me back almost $1,000,000."
That's a lot of money, no matter how you look at it, especially if you are investing as part of a group.
"I have no clue what the costs and leaps and hurdles will be to develop it"
The county we subdivided in had a process that helped us immensly. I made an appointment for what they call a "pre-sub meeting". At that meeting I talked with a representative from each department that would have to approve the subdivision - roads, waste management, ecology, building, water...had to be a few more - anyway, each of them had advice relevent to my project.
About a month before the meeting I got a checklist from the county that more or less walked me right through the process. It was several pages, kind of intimidating at first, but proved to be a comprehensive guide to the process. I remember thinking how easy the entire process turned out to be, lots of step, but easy. The good thing about getting that list way before the pre-sub meeting was it gave me a chance to read through it, and ask specific questions of the relevent agency representative at that meeting.
Other than the county the two people who's opinions helped most were my land surveyor and a realtor I know and respect. They both gave good advice regarding property values, resale issues, asthetics...they were enthusiastic about their professions and the ideas just spilled out of them - proved invaluable.
If I were to do another subdivision, I'd start with the appropriate government agency, and talk with a realtor very early in the process.
But a million dollar partnership is nothing to rush into, interpersonal relationships go bad over far less than that.
Go for it whatever it takes, or you'll be kicking yourself in the azz for the rest of your life.
Joe H
If I were in your shoes, I would do it. Real estate can be a good investment. Most developers make offers with lots of contingencies, because they typically are not working with their own capital, and are paying carrying costs for their projects. Carrying cost on a $1.5m parcel is around $9000/month. The most typical contingency is: sale closes on successful rezoning.
The steps I would take are to go talk to that developer that made the offer. Don't disclose too much information. Ask him if he's still interested in the property and maybe you can flip it saving yourself a few acres. Present yourself as a family interest.
I would find the people responsible in your area for approvals / zoning and talk to them about the land and the likelihood of rezoning. There are attorneys very knowledgeable in development issues and a few hundred dollars invested would pay a good return. Find out if there are any organized community groups who oppose further development, etc. and talk to some of their members. We have an area here where a multi-neighborhood homeowners association publishes minutes of their meetings, etc. and has a lot of sway.
I would make sure the land is not a deal-killer - i.e. has substantial wetlands on the government books, is substantially in a flood plain, has hazardous waste issues, endangered species, etc.
Right now is a very slow time for everyone involved in land development. You can probably bend someone's ear pretty easily. Find out who does the development for a new subdivision close to your parcel, and talk to their project manager. He might be a wealth of information on what they went through facing the same issues.
And then it comes down to gut feelings. My wife and I have just done very well on a deal - nearly doubling our money in a three month period. I have confidence in myself so it went smoothly and we handled problems timely and as they arose. It was real estate purchased at auction that couldn't be valued at fair market because of problems that were relatively easy for me to resolve. Yours sounds like a similar situation.
If you do this and profit well from it, you need good financial advice. It would suck to work hard and take that much risk, and throw a good chunk away on capital gains taxes. I know that's after the fact, but it's something to think about and plan for.
Remodeler
" It was real estate purchased at auction that couldn't be valued at fair market because of problems that were relatively easy for me to resolve."
Thats what I do .
Want to share what it was you did ?
Tim Mooney
Thanks for the interest, Tim. Your posts are ones I watch on this board because I believe you are one of the people that are where my wife and I are trying to reach.
This was our first investment property. Previously our investments consisted of living pretty simply and putting most of our money into savings via the stock market. We went to a real estate auction by an outfit out of Houston, TX who was auctioning 65 houses by two investors.
My wife visited all of the properties and put together notes, but not the sort of in-depth information I would want if I was focused on purchasing one property. We became familiar with the neighborhoods the properties were grouped in. I had a list of one to five top properties, and we took an earnest check to the auction but didn't really intend to buy because we were more giving ourselves opportunities than committing to taking an opportunity.
All five of our top picks went over what I felt was fair. My #1 pick, the auction house called after the fact (I was second highest bid) and said the winner couldn't get financed, would I be interested at his bid? I told them no, but at his less his 10% earnest money. He scrambled to finish the deal. The house we took was a 1400 sf 4br / 2ba that the builder went bankrupt on. He reached a certain point and then walked away, but it was almost finished. It suffered a lot of vandalism - carpet stolen, wh & furn stolen, etc., all windows broken, siding damaged.
We paid $28k and have put about $5k into it. It is a very nice home, nicer than our own except the neighborhood. The area is low-income african american, lots of welfare and unemployed people. Constant offers for help and getting hit up for $.75 while I'm working there. But the police tightened the area down a few years ago and the crack cocaine has been driven out. About 10% of lots are bare and probably 50% of the properties vacant. About 10% percent of the homes are completely remodeled and have windows/doors boarded. I've not contacted adjacent property owners. There is a redevelopment area to the south about 1/4 mile where houses are completely restored, federal dollars involved, and houses are $250k. This house appraised at $72k and the comps were for similar houses one and two streets over.
The problems that kept others away I think are that a person would have had to carry the deal with their own cash because of the auction and short closing period. Also - which I don't know if other prospective buyers would have realized - it needed some underground utility work which would be very expensive for someone else to do, probably $8000, but because I work in the industry and have close friends at the affected utility, it cost me $200.
The other thing is my wife and I had started going to landlord / property investor clubs here in Indianapolis. What I didn't expect - and what blows my mind - is all of the people doing rental properties that we have met so far have the attitude of "I can't change a light bulb". There are schemes aplenty for assuming mortgages, chasing down pre-foreclosures, etc., but my wife and I expect to make money buying from distressed sellers and fixing the problems a place has. All our fellow landlords (so far) would have had to hire out all of the work on this house and couldn't have made it work doing so.
So I'm almost finished with the house and turning it over to the wife to get rented, and starting my next project. We purchased an 8-unit one-bedrooms apartment building that is distressed, and needs gutted. It is structurally sound but little else.
remodeler
Thanks for your response .
Most cases of good deals now days with interrest rates being so low, are found in heavily distressed buildings. The dealers you mention that dont change light bulbs are in full force when the interrest rates are low. They are levying their credit, buying power , and relying on the strong market brought on by the current rates to resell their purchase. I mentioned in another post about the times "I couldnt get it done ", as you mentioned on five houses . Retail buyers are also attending repossesion sales and are pushing sales near full retail prices if the properties are nice.
It usually always comes down to a niche of being able to bring the property back to good status. I thought I might be able to hear something different when you mentioned it.
On a good note to you , the easy buyers wont be there when the interrest rates go up and the market tightens. It will also become a buyers market at that time.
Thanks ,
Tim Mooney
Hi Jon,
just looked at the two pictures you posted of the land in question. Where in the pictures is the land? You said it was lake front, and south of the road in the lower center of the picture. I only see already developed land on the lakefront and a bunch of undeveloped land to the west of the lake that looks awfully wet. The map has a symbol for a marsh not too far away, and the aerial photo looks like a swamp. Is that the land you are talking about? Maybe I'm not looking in the right place. I'm sure you wouldn't buy a swamp. You've obviously been out inspecting the land and wouldn't be considering it if it was too wet. The swamp symbol on the map has me worried though. Wetlands can be a huge development problem with the Feds, and also an expense to drain or fill.
Am I looking at the right spot in the pictures?
Good luck either way.
-Dan
75 acres of partially wooded
Jon, you're getting lots of good advice. My acreage was larger here. I could identify only 5 legal building sites, and one of them is suspect (but approved). Zoning is everything. From my 5 sites I sold 1, for 1½ times the original purchase price. We're sitting on the remainder. Inflation of land prices has been incredible here.
If you aren't familiar with zoning and land prices, get that way fast, before you close on the deal. Since our original purchase we've made more money on "problem" land, by solving the problem, than anything else. Land speculation can be wildly lucrative but is not always so. I know several speculators who took a bath, due to not doing their homework.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
your best bet is to buy the land then consult with an engineering frim. They will advise you of the current regulations both local, state and federal. The land will be much easier to develop if its not in a city municpality. Developing a subdivision with many lots gets tricky as to sewer/septic requirements and or well depth pressure.
even if you decide to not develop you can always sell the single farm for a profit if its as cheap as you say.
My experience is sub-division development inside city limits. besides the headaches of sewer, there are storm water mandates. Then you have utility layout and accessibility and street design/build. If its a county development youll probably have to make the roads to the county specs for them to take over maintence if not youll have to establish a Home Owner association that will divide the costs of road maintence or just risk it down the road. Down the road if your road isnt deeded to the county or to the adjacent lot owners youll deal with any repairs most likely due to a suit or court order.
The experts say you have pretty much 3 years from start to finish each phase or total development to turn a profit.
Go talk to a couple of local bankers. Most will jump at the deal and probably give you people who do this sort of thing for a living.. The time to be carefull is before you commit to who's going to develop it with you. Hire a good attorney to look out for your interests (and make sure that he has nothing to do with the bank or any partner)
here it probably would be worth finding the right guy to partner with, make certain that he has a fincial stake in the development too! another words he better come in with money as well as expertese.. Don't get involved with anyone who's only obligation is to profit off of the development, rather work the terms oput so that any partner will risk what you risk and recieve what you recieve..
IN this area I'd be glad to do just that, however I don't work outside of my local area (neither should any partner)
partner is a very bad word. we married folk have our own already and thats plenty
Yeh, I understand,
yet I've seen it work often enough.
However, You do need a partner.. be it a bank to provide you with the capital or someone who knows about the pitfalls of land development.. or maybe both..
Whatever, somebody is gonna have their hand up an uncomfortable protion of your body, tuggin on things I doubt you'd like tugged on..
That or you come to the table with your own money and make your own choices as to how much and when and where.. If you haven't done it before you'll get an education, I promise you..
I can tell you this:
My parents raised my moms brothers' two girls after he died.
He left them 32 acres in western DuPage Co.Ill.Might be Kane Co.
They sold the property in 84 (less 1 acre for themselves with the old Sears farm house which they rent out)for $17,000 per acre.
The buyer sold the property at the same closing to a developer for $32,000 per acre.
The developer put in roads,curb and gutter, and sold 1 acre lots starting at $150,000 per(this was in 1985.Last one sold in 1990 for some where around $450,000.Big houses in that area 3500-5000sq/ft.
The girls still own one acre,wonder what it's worth,14 yrs later.
If things are booming around your land,nothing but $$$$$ will come.
Choose your parteners well!Luck
Scottyb,
Just out of curiousity, do you know which town the property is in? I grew up in Geneva (Kane County seat). Prices have escalated much in the past 2 decades.
Jon Blakemore
I think it's unincorporated West Chicago.
Rt.59& Army Trail Rd.
The developer tried to get the land incorporated into Barrtlet so he could get sewer and water but no luck.
59 and Army Trail is pretty close to Wayne. That would make it alot more valuable than I originally thought.
That one acre plot is worth a tidy sum...
Jon Blakemore
That whole area south of Army Trail to Smith Rd.,is nothing but huge homes.
The good thing is they are ,for the most part,all on larege lots.None of this craming a 4000sq/ft house on a 60'X150' lot.
Yes they are holding a nice chunck of tera ferma.
Geneva you say.Nice out that way.St.Charles,Wayne,Elburn....BIG$$$$$
I grew up in Elmhurst,Lots of tear-downs going on.My parents house is sitting on two lots worth about 1/2 a mill.Just the land!Unbelieveable!
Taxes are way out there....$4000,$5000,$6000 a year? WOW! That's like another house payment.Crazy!
"Taxes are way out there....$4000,$5000,$6000 a year? WOW! That's like another house payment.Crazy!"
Scotty,
In my parents neighborhood in Westchester NY the annual taxes on homes in the 1/2 acre, 4,000sq. ft range are $20,000 to $50,000, It's all relative.
Jon
Location, location, location.....
"A million bucks for 75 acres ???
That's alike $13,333 per acre. No way would land sell for that around here. "
Ron: - yeah, I know, central IL real estate appreciation really sucks, but central ND is even worse??!! FILs house/lot in Decatur was worth less in plain dollars than they paid for it (1934, $5K) when MIL died in 1999 - "disadvantaged area" syndrome. My Mom and Pop's houses (Pop/Mom still own/live in the house -and the one next door - he was born in on So 8th st - same syndrome) in Springfield are probably worth 1/50th in real dollars what they paid in 1946.
Other side of the coin, $1 mil is 'chump change' to the big developers in Seattle area. Neighbor Henry sold his 10 (TEN) acres 500 ft up the road from me for 1.2 Mil 2 years ago -YEETHCH, it now has 62 (sixty two, no misprint) $400,000 ea houses on it that look like #%$%#$$ crammed 8 feet apart!! - talk about future slum and depreciation in years to come. Single lot (7200 sq ft, non view) in subdivision across the street sold last year for $104, 000. I paid $3000 acre for my place 32 years ago. GDMFSOlB ripoff speculators call every few weeks trying to take advantage of an 'old man'.
Jon: $1,000,000 is worth squat if it alienates any family members. My advise** is to get the family together and buy it collectively (even if you have to pay into the fund what you would consider an 'unfair' amount, or even all) to preserve the lakefront property in whole as a family coop type of thing. I know this has not worked for some, but the obverse of one set of family memebers making a profit at the expense of others in a big negative worth -- are you going to take it with you when you die, or would you prefer to be on good term with those your really care for when you go ???
**but then, I don't need any more money than I already got and need to live on and get the truck to and from the surplus & scrap yards and dump; plus, personal experience of Pop and an Aunt not speaking for 30 years (they reconciled recently) due to a measly $1200 dispute over the 'house next door'.
EDIT PS: FWIW, the comments above advise you to buy it whatever it takes and do not subdivide for at least 10-20 years, esp in view of the Pabst development.
Edited 12/31/2003 4:28:01 PM ET by JUNKHOUND
>> My advise is to get the family together and buy it collectively ...
Sounds to me like they already tried that approach and it crashed and burned.
you're probably already past this and doesn't approach feedback you're receiving from this experienced bunch
but 90 grand an acre ( that was not even on shore right? ) and you are getting 77 ( like that number! ) for less than 900 grand no doubt big big money and reason for anyone to be hesitant and prudent but probably should not let the opportunity pass you by
having senior moment but what is the term for say dividing in two and putting that piece back on the market - hopefully restoring everyone's position, cooling everyone's jets with maybe a fine lakeside lot to boot ** sure beats being broke and envisioning spending nothing but big money before realizing any return
please keep us posted and best of luck to your whole family
"having senior moment but what is the term for say dividing in two and putting that piece back on the market -"
JOHN,
Already have an informal offer from the adjacent landowner for half, 'cause he wants it for "hunting land".......yeah right.
The wetlands issue could turn out to be as much of a liability as an asset, and often out here 1/3 to 2/3 of a parcel needs to be permanently set aside a "open space" when subdivided, so one must be prudent as to what is "spun off."
I care more about preserving relations within the family than making a ton of money, and also believe strongly in spreading risk, which is why I am looking to a "pool" of investors.
Jon
">> My advise is to get the family together and buy it collectively ...
Sounds to me like they already tried that approach and it crashed and burned."
Uncle Dunc,
You are referring to my wife's side there, not mine. My family actually gets along pretty well, and have conservative spending and investing habits.
Many a member of my wife's family (who own the property collectively) are deep in debt, and have already squandered the equity they expected to inherit years ago, hence the forced sale. A few still want to take a "keep and hold position," my wife's Dad being one.
Over the Holiday's I pitched the idea of buying this property to various family members who are all high income earning professionals, and they were receptive, but wanted a time line, risk assessment, and exit strategy. I figured I bounce this off you guy's and am amazed at the amount of good advice so far.
Jon
I know quite a bit in this area also , but its already been said mostly. I will offer a little that hasnt been mentioned for your review . I have been pleased at the posts youve had also.
I am an investor . I bought 40 acres of commercial property that I could handle the laid in cost of keeping it. I had partners that were comfortable with making an equal payment till it was sold. We opted to not develope it becsue those costs are high and its still in speculative stage after much more money is spent. You still have to get a pay check from it in the end. Check with the points mentioned, becuse there will be some learning.
Im on the board of PL&Z. I hear these things once a month . We decide "if " we approve of plans after the owner has spend much in fees already. Land costs and fees are very high . Ive seen many things on the table being a commisioneer. Do all the homework there is out there . Too many people are not "ready".
We sold the partial of land to the school system as a whole purchase which is another way of doing business. If its bought cheap enough , it can be passed to another buyer who has the means to make it happen. You are fooling in the big time. One exit plan would be to the ability to pass it off for a small profit.
Tim Mooney
"You are fooling in the big time."
Tim,
Yeah, I know it. which is why I'm still hesitant to follow the advice of all those people who tell me to "just go for it". On the other hand, those who never take risks......well,...they never reap the rewards. Personally, I wish I had the cash to just buy it and hold, but I don't, and DEFINITELY do not want to over sell a bad investment idea. I could heavily leverage myself, but that goes against everything I learned in B-school.
When getting investment advice from my Dad, his motto was always "never invest more than you can afford to loose" [on any one investment]. Worked well for him and me so far.
Jon
ALL,
Just wanted to thank everyone who has been contributing to this discussion/thread. It is definitely helping.
Thanks again,
Jon
"When getting investment advice from my Dad, his motto was always "never invest more than you can afford to loose" [on any one investment]. Worked well for him and me so far."
When I started investing it was mainly the bankers money . Hard way to row a boat . I kept in mind since I didnt have the money my self , I couldnt afford to lose it ." If you only have a single shot 22 , you better make sure you kill on the first shot. " Thers nothing wrong with investiong as long as you know you are going to score a knock down kill .
Be careful out there .
Tim Mooney
"I kept in mind since I didn't have the money my self , I couldn't afford to lose it"
Tim,
Good moral attitude to have. There is also the saying that it's easier to be poor if you've never been rich. Right now my wife and I are doing pretty well. I don't ever want to go into the poor house, hence my cautious stance.
Jon
>> You are referring to my wife's side there, not mine.
Ah yes, a necessary distinction.
Jon, I'm doing the same thing in NW Ark, and have also done development in Neb.I haven't read all the posts so I may be redundant.
Do you know what neighboring similar lots are selling for? It may be worth the cost to hire an appraiser, unless you know your way around the court house records (they may be online).
Visit the planning dept for the county and talk to them about your ideas. I would also talk to the county assessor and find out what the taxes would be after your purchase. This can be an ugly expensive surprise.
Are there any zoning regulations, lot size requirements, etc? I own property in Neb that can only be divided into 20 acre homesites unless a plan is approved. I've been told that I would be declined until development comes closer to my property.
Are utilities available? What are hook up costs? If you are on septic, check out the requirements, ask if the land percs in the area. Is the access road paved?
Is there any environmental gov't hoops, NIMBY problems or "greens" to cause problems? Many people will be against a development more out of jealousy than actual facts, but if you need public hearings, they'll be there and you'll have to work with them. The gov't guys can really hold you up, the good side is that if you are successful, they also are a barrier to your competition.
Good Luck, it may be worth doing if you know what you are getting into.
Here in Yavapai County, Arizona, an individual is allowed to sell/cut up a piece of property 5 times, ie Joe HO, as long as the property is within the zoning in place. A lot of this rural property is 2 acre min. This land splitting drives our local board of supervisors nuts. Anywho WSJ,, I'd check into just how many times can you "sell" a piece of "your" property, before you move up to the Devleloper stage. Regardless, beings how it not my money/family,, Go for it, buy it. though with Life comes changes, and with changes, I always try and think,, hmmm before during after Good luck Jim J
jon... this is a redflag..<<<<
a court ordered forced sale. Lot's of sibling (7) infighting.
The facts are:>>>>>
the discount that you are planning on buying at will be perceived by the dissident siblings as "theft"
one of the things you have to weigh is.. can you do this deal and not destroy your family..
ah, the perils of estate planning
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore