My night for plumbing questions i guess. Planning the new house and the spickets i have on the current house a cheap/not smooth. Actually had one break once.
Anyone ever seen spickets — like you’d see on the side of a house — made w/ball valves? If not, any other recomendations for valves for the purpose?
Bob C
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Replies
Make your own. Doesn't take much.
Ball valve, elbow, 3/4" pipe to hose adapter. That's it...
Either put the valve on horizontal, then the elbow, then the adapter...
Or, put on the elbow, then the valve vertical below that, then the adapter.
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.Free Sancho ! (When you buy Gunner for 3 easy monthly payments of just $1.50)
I haven't seen a ball valve spicket.
Because it gets below freezing around here I've used frost proof sillcocks. The valve is 10-12" inside the wall.
If you use them make sure they angled down a bit to the outside so they drain, otherwise the trapped water could freeze, expand, and rupture the pipe inside the wall.
Mike
It's O.k. to think out of the box, Just don't walk off of the plank!
Edited 3/7/2005 9:57 pm ET by Mike S
Edited 3/7/2005 10:14 pm ET by Mike S
Arent ball valves meant to only be used fully open or fully closed? I second the freeze concern. Lately i've been using the frost free bibs. I think they work well.
Here in SoCal, where it does not freeze, you can buy ball valve hose bibbs at all the stores, even the box stores. They have a butterfly handle of red-painted zinc on a brass valve body. 1/4 turn and it's all the way on. I love them.
In cold areas, the one to get is the heavy brass Woodford frost-proof with self drain that weeps out even with a hose connected. The spout is next to the handle (on the left of it) and they are built well. Get the metal handle. The plastic handle version sucks.
WE put freeze proof sillcocks in a house we built in Iowa. Forschlagenen things froze up the first night it went to 35 below. At least I could get at them to repair them inside the basement!DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
Anybody come across problems with frost-proof silcocks restricting what had been good water flow when the old fashioned spigots were on the same supply line....my new frost-proofs won't rotate my lawn sprinkler!!!!
The FP sillcocks I've seen provide pretty much full flow -- about as much as you could expect.I'd suspect that the shutoff valve inside isn't full open or some such.
Boy...lots of good info. I finally did find some ball valve style spickots (some with brass handles some w/apparently plastic).
The comments around freezing would apply regardless of whether i was using a ball value or not...right? I live in South Carolina and it does freeze but none of the normal spickets around here are ever the 'anti-freeze' style where the valve is inside the wall. So i'm guessing this is not going to be an issue...i'll just need to make sure the valve is close to the wall and everything past the valve drains. Seems like this is only a concern if i decide to build my own (a consideration 'cause i do like the level-style handles).
kind of wonder why you don't see these ball valve spickes around here in the big box stores.
(NOTE: i'm assuming spickets and sillcocks are the same thing).
Spigots=sillcocks.....no spickets here.....
;) I never could spell (even w/a spellchecker right beside me).
me neither.....
spickets and sillcocks are the same thing
In days of old, the difference between a spigot and a sillcock was that the sillcock had a hook for a bucket bail (handle) built in.
Been years since I've seen a bail hook on a hose bib.
They make a nice thinsulate "boot" to put on the hose bibs that would probably suffice for much of SC's winters.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Had noise and restricted flow, attributed to a siphon breaker device. I hate it when we all suffer for the few idiots.
In the north east everything new is a frost free. I do see a lot of the boiler and water heater drains us 1/4 turn valves that I think are a ball valve style. They have a handle that looks like a gas valve handle. Check out a plumbing supply house, they should stock them. The box stores differ regionally, I think.
http://www.woodfordmfg.com/Woodford/Wall_Hydrant_Pages/model70.htm
Just beautiful.
Sit down and then ask for the price.
Here is the home page:
http://www.woodfordmfg.com/Woodford/WFDIndex.htm
carpenter in transition
you're right...those are might cool but boy are they pricey.
Like I said, make your own.
Here's a really old one, made from PVC. This was used for a sink water supply in a camp situation. Screwed directly into the water barrel, which was laid on it's side above the sink.
It is lacking the hose nipple, but a standard adapter is available for that. One side of the adapter is 3/4" pipe thread, the other side is standard garden hose thread.
You could put the adapter right there at the end of the ball valve, or put it in the elbow. Or flip it around, put the water supply into the elbos, aim the valve end at the ground, and put the adapter at the bottom. (That last one would make the butterfly type valve easier to operate.)
And to answer another question... Ball valves can be operated in any opening size. Slightly open, to full open. You don't have to choose between wide open, or turned completely off. Turn it on to any flow you want.
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
I've given this a bit of thought. Especially since seeing a friend, on the newscast, trying to spray down a roof with a garden hose in the 1991 Oakland Hills Fire (2000+ homes lost). He could have done better drinking a 6-pack and peeing!
Hose spigots are globe valves and are mostly good because they turn on slowly (avoids water hammer) and create a large pressure drop (you don't want to hydraulic excavate your petunias with a 60 psi water jet.
BUT, if there is a fire, or low pressue in the neighborhood (or both) or if you just want to fill the kiddie pool quicker, then you DON"T want the pressure drop, don't want to be limited to 8-10 gpm and want to get MORE water than your neighbors get.
Then, yes, a full-bore ball valve is the ticket. They can control partial flow just fine, but it is a lot touchier. 5 degrees of turn makes a big difference. And if you crank it closed quickly, which is easy to do with a ball valve, you can get some wicked water hammer. And you have to add the anti-syphon thing in most areas and that can be tricky to do in a code-approved, non-removable way.
Note that 3/4" garden hose limits you to about 10-12 gpm anyway. 5/8" (more common) limits you to 8-10 gpm. Getting bigger hose is a great idea but it ain't cheap and ain't at Home Depot.
What I did in my own house is put two normal, 12-inch deep, anti-freeze sillcocks on each side of the house. One hot, one cold. Very useful!
And then, in the utility room, there is a 1-inch, full-bore ball valve which is 1" all the way to the water main. Very well secured to the wall. Going to hose thread. Inspector accepted it (and understood the how and why of it).
A 1-1/4 retired fire hose resides inside the utility room (where it won't freeze and plugg up) dedicated to that valve. For a few major projects (ice rink, golf-course-sized rain-bird, igloo on a -20F day, etc), I use that outlet. And close it s-l-o-w-l-y. But for most everything I just use one or two of the regular hose bibs.
If I ever need to get more serious, I'll use a 1-hp gasoline-powered water pump with 1-1/4 hose already connected to boost the pressure and/or divert the flow away from the less plumbing capable neighbors.
Dave:
you really bring up some good points that i hadn't thought about. Hadn't considered water hammer nor any backflow/anit-siphon issues <-- still not sure why this is an issue for one type of valve and not the other.
another thing i'd totally never thought about was a hot water spigot...not sure how often i'd use it but many times i wouldn't mind using warm rather than ice cold water for various projects.
Well my goal = really well made values...ones that feel smooth to operate and won't give me much trouble down the road. Could be that a ball valve isn't the way to go.
Anti-siphon: The readily available retrofit back-flow preventers are 3/4 FHT (female hose thread) to go onto a standard hosebib. Then you engage a set screw and break off its head. That way, it is permanently installed. Whereas a ball valve terminates in FPT and needs a 3/4" nipple and then a FPT to MHT adapter. After you mount the BFP, you could always just back out the nipple and do without the damnable BFP.Uses for hot water: washing/degreasing cars and equipment. Making up soap solution to wash windows. Defrosting car windows really quick. Refilling hot tub (quicker time to soaking temps). Filling kiddie pool. Mixing fast-setting concete, etc.Warm water: wash dog OUTSIDE the house (especially good when she's rolled in rotten moose guts). Hosing off kids and toys after the beach. Temporary outdoor shower for excessive number of (or not entirely welcome) house guests, etc.Ball valves for $9 are better quality than globe valves at $4. SS innards plus some teflon. Instead of those goofy rubber washer that wear out. All shut-off valves in my house are ball valves - better quality, easy to see their position, more reliable than gate valves.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
So i guess in some areas back flow preventers are required on all hose bibs (regardless of valve style).
Hot water make a lot of sense...maybe just in the back of the house. Too bad they don't have a single exterior valve that can mix the two waters so you could actually have warm water come out of the hose. Nevertheless...really good idea.
So you use ball valves in the house -- toilets, faucets, ... -- but not outside. There smaller size/diameter doesn't cause the same water hammer issues.
"So you use ball valves in the house -- toilets, faucets, ... -- but not outside. There smaller size/diameter doesn't cause the same water hammer issues."Those are used as stop valves. There you normally don't have water flowing when you operate them.And if you do, hammer is the less of your problems.And besides they are feeding 3/8 supply lines so the flow and thus the water hammer is much, much less than on a 3/4".BTW, I have noticed that the newere faucetts are more prone to cause water hammer.The "washerless" ones have about less than 1/2 turn from full on to off and you can twist them fast.
Check this site for an outside mixing faucet:
http://www.keidel.com/mech/pvf/valve-ext.htm
Perfect. That's just what i'm going to use.
OK...another stupid quetion while i've got your attention. On the same page the show a sillcock and a 'hose bib'. The handles are different but are the internals different?
Thanks for the URL. That's nice to know about.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska