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Discussion Forum

Spruce logs checking

Woodman11 | Posted in General Discussion on April 2, 2007 12:49pm

While constructing a new home in <!—-><!—-> <!—->Alberta<!—-><!—-> 7 years ago I decide to wait on the rails and newel posts.  Four years ago I went to a local sawmill and picked up 30 seasoned newel posts 48†high by one 14†thick.  After carving a basic Jacobean Spiral in the posts I left them stored in the shop until I found the time to complete carving and sanding.

Last week I was dismayed to see almost all the posts were checked from the inside of the core.  The cracks opened up to 1 ½â€ to the exterior of the logs.  In my wisdom I have tried to wedge slivers of Mahogany lengthwise into the core before sanding but this is not working out. (Thought it would create an interesting color change).

I do not wish to fill the voids with a caulk product but am running out of ideas.  I had though to mix up a batch of fine spruce sawdust and two-compound epoxy but it doesn’t finish nicely and disappears into the voids.

In visiting other log homes I note there are some with decorative work that has split and other that have not.

Any ideas would be appreciated to solve my problem.   My rails from the same sawmill cured perfectly with no checking or splitting.

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  1. Notchman | Apr 02, 2007 06:08pm | #1

    I would question, first of all, how "seasoned" the logs were and then, the ring count because fast growing wood wiil release moisture and split much faster and more dramatically than wood which has grown slower and sports a tighter ring count.

    I recently rebuilt a two story log porch and deck structure on a local log home.  I was able to supply all the major log components off my own tree farm which has mostly 60-70 year old timber, with some understory that's very straight with a high ring count.  I used some of that timber in the construction of my own home and the checking was very minimal.  The owner purchased railing stock from the original log supplier....it was supposed to be seasoned, but it most certainly was not;  however, checking was minimal because the rail stock was very tight grained and came in 20' lengths and was of Doug fir which is probably more resistant to severe checking than some other softwood species, including most of the spruces.

    In addition, the short pieces you received will, by the nature of how wood dries(through the end grain) will accelerate the drying process which, in turn, increases checking.

    Wood that's seasoned properly, whether air-dried or in a kiln, is done so in a very controlled way: 

          Air dried lumber is protected from direct sun, evenly stickered and has ends painted to slow the exit of free and bound water and is given a long residence time in that environment; 

          A kiln accelerates the drying process by providing a warm environment, with engineered air circulation about the stickered wood and a careful atmosphere of relative humidity....energy (heat) is used to drive the free water and bound water from the wood while the relationship between the moisture content of the wood and the relative humidity in the kiln are kept within a few percentages of each other (depending on the wood species) to control the drying process.

    IMO, you're probably stuck with what you have.

    I've seen people fill weather checks with caulking and I really think it's a bad idea;  on exterior wood, the caulk usually squeezes out in the winter and then the splits reopen in the summer and it looks like hell.

    For what you're doing, in-letting some solid wood pieces might work;  they don't have to be a triangular profile....you can cut a dado the length of the check and let in a snug fitting piece....I would stay with the spruce....and, unless the posts are already bored for the rails, I would probably try to orient the repair in line with the rails as it would be less noticeable.

    Since you're doing all the intricate carving, I would think that making a repair as I've suggested would be a piece of cake.  :-)

    Good luck.

    1. Woodman11 | Apr 02, 2007 08:56pm | #2

      Advice well taken and educational extras appreciated. Makes sense to dado out the splits and inserting wood. I was concerned about the inserts floating out in the future if the posts continue to move.

      I wish you well.Woodman11

    2. Woodman11 | Apr 02, 2007 09:02pm | #3

      In rereading your post I may decide to look a some different stock at a different supplier and recarve the spirals. Is there a way I can assure (noted- tight growth rings) cured stock in the yard. Perhaps loading up full 20 foot lengths and cutting back at shop. Paint the ends and then cut spirals and carve??
      I would like to do this before all is installed.
      Appreciate your knowledgeWoodman11

      1. Notchman | Apr 03, 2007 04:13am | #6

        I apologise for my very brief sorray into wood drying this A.M.because I was about to head out the door to work and, actually. spent more time than I intended.  But, then, I'm self-employed and, thus, always on time to work! :-)

        I have a pretty deep background with the science of drying wood and was involved, periodically, with dry kiln design, both steam and dehumidification, with one of the major wood products firms in the U.S.  (I won't reveal the name, but their Head Shed is in Federal Way, Wa). 

        Since you want to carve your posts, ideally I would agree that your best bet is to hand select some new logs and season them yourself.   The chance of finding a dry kiln to accomodate you is close to nil, but you can make your own, quite inexpensively, and you will learn a lot in the process, because it will take, probably, the better part of a year for your logs to cure if they are cut from standing timber.

        Going into Spring, with the sap flowing, is the worst time to cut timber for the kind of work you want to do....deep into December and January is best because the moisture content is low.  An alternative is to select an adequate number of trees, of the right diameter and girdle them so they die on the stump and the needles will apirate most of the free water in the trunk.

        Another alternative is to contact a log home builder or log home log supplier and be very clear about what you need.

        There was a log home built (Tamarack) a few years ago in my area that was layed up in British Columbia, disassembled and re-erected here on the Oregon coast.  Employees of the builder showed up wearing Tyrolia style outfits and  the green felt hats with long feathers.  (One of them even yodeled pretty well).

        We were building a massive stone fireplace while they were hand carving eagles and bears in some of the bigger logs.  I've been to visit that home a few times and the season checks are very minimal.

        email me through the forum and I'll provide you with some drying technology and some split isolation tips that may help you out.

        On edit, what Scott posted, I agree with, but with the size of checks you describe are the kind I've seen exclusively in young, fast-growing timber which is not a good choice  for log construction.

        Edited 4/2/2007 9:18 pm by Notchman

        1. Woodman11 | Apr 03, 2007 08:08pm | #12

          Well its official. I have gone to a log home building company and told them my tale of woe. They are willing to supply me some seasoned Fir in the dimensions I need. They almost sold me on cedar logs but the wood was too red
          My only concern was the color change from white to light yellow between the species. (Spruce and Fir)
          Since White Oak is out of the budget I will make due.
          My thanks to all who posted an opinion, by this time next year the project should be completed. HAhahahaha-groan!! I'll be storing my logs differently in the future thanks to the feedback passsed on here.
          I'll post a picture..P.S. Stair treads and runners are plywood. Outside capped with 1/2 log spruce. How would you guys go about dressing up the inside rise/run/sides; other than carpet or tile... Have a great week....

  2. Scott | Apr 03, 2007 12:37am | #4

    I've always thought that checking in raw peeled logs was something that was expected and unavoidable. We used cedar logs, which check less than most other woods, but nonetheless they still check. I think it's just part of the character of log construction.

    I think that 'repairing' the checks would be very difficult and could end up looking like a botched afterthought. I wish you luck with the job and hope that it turns out as you hope.

    Scott.

    Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”

    1. Woodman11 | Apr 03, 2007 12:41am | #5

      thanks

  3. frenchy | Apr 03, 2007 04:23am | #7

    Woodman11

     It's the nature of logs to split (or check).   What happens is the outside dries sooner than the inside when wood dries it shrinks and when it shrinks around a center that hasn't yet dried it has no choice but to check..

      You need to figure out a way to dry wood from the inside out to prevent checking..

     (microwave doesn't work) 

     ps. checking doesn't in any way affect the strength of wood.

    1. ANDYSZ2 | Apr 03, 2007 04:53am | #8

      I will have to disagree about checking not effecting the strength as I just purchased 18 4x8 beams of which 3 are so badly checked that I can see daylight through one side to the other and I feel that sooner rather than later these will become 2 pieces of wood.

      ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?

      REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST

       

      1. frenchy | Apr 03, 2007 04:23pm | #11

        Andy,

         Well according to everything I've read on the subject it doesn't affect the strength I'd cite you chapeter and verse but that means a trip up into the attic so you'll just have to accpet it for now.. Frankly I've never seen a piece of wood with two checks going all the way thru,,

         Oeops! That's not true .. I've seen Hickory spit itself right into two pices with a couple of weeks  exposure to sun.  Your wood wasn't hickory was it?

  4. IdahoDon | Apr 03, 2007 10:28am | #9

    There are commercially available products that are applied to carved wood to keep moisture evaporation to a minimum while the piece dries.

    Also, there is a huge difference in moisture content in logs.  I've heard that in the old days the absolute best logs are those that have almost uprooted and look to be dead, but have a few limbs still alive.  The remaining limbs keep the tree from drying too fast, but the tree is about as dry as is possible and still be alive.  Logs used from such trees shrink and check much less than normal.

    If nothing else, parafin can be disolved in a solvent and sprayed or brushed on any end grain (where most evaporation occurs).

    Inexpensive moisture meters are available for around $30 that you would enjoy.  It's fasinating to see the effects of moisture loss of varying degrees.

    Good carving

     

    Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.

  5. User avater
    talkingdog | Apr 03, 2007 01:04pm | #10

    This won't help you now, but what they do here is
    kerf the logs. This is done with a shaper type
    device that cuts a wedge from the outside right to
    the core of the log. The kerf will end up about
    1/4 inch wide at the outside. I suppose one could
    do it with a skillsaw.

    Anyway, this seems to be a fairly effective way
    of dealing with checking, since you don't see a
    lot of checking afterward in wood treated like this.

    If the kerf is going to be visible, they will come
    back and install a sliver of wood in the kerf, plane
    it flush.

    1. Woodman11 | Apr 03, 2007 08:10pm | #13

      Excellent idea, thanks for this onewoodman11

    2. Notchman | Apr 04, 2007 03:01am | #14

      I usually kerf logs that will be exposed to weather.

      The method is to cut a kerf....a straight cut about 1 1/2" deep with a circular saw is adequate....and then drive wooden wedges in the kerf.

      This preloads the stress in the log and when it dries, the splits are generally isolated to the kerf.

      By orienting the kerf to the down position of the log, the intrusion of wet weather is more limited.  Using a good penetrating finish with a fungicide is also advised.

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