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Im recently new at the bidding end of this business and i am bidding a 18′ x 20’addition. It will be a turn key addition i will do it all from the excavation to the final piece of trim. I will be however subbing out the electrical and the plumbing. And i would like to try to get a starting point as far as SQ.FT.$$ goes so i am competitve with the other builders that will be bidding against me. Just a little backround on the project so you guys dont have to come back to me and ask for more info. Ok here goes first i live in the suberbs of NYC about one and a half hours north. The foundation will be block with just a crawl space with a rat slab.This addition is going to have 1 bathroom and the rest of it will be a bedroom so it just consists of a single floor. The bathroom will be basic stuff no expensive fixtures or tile work.There will be 3 total windows in this addition all andersons and 1 exterior 3-0x 6-8 Stanley metal door. just your avarage sizes casements the siding will be vynil and the roof will be a simple shed type roof with asphalt shingles. Thats probably the jist of it, its just the basics with no frills i will be painting the inside Will also be running a loop of hot water basebored i dont have to upgrade the furnace. I have heard in the past the the prices could be as low as 110.00 sq ft then i was talking to someone and they told me 170.00 a sq ft but i think that is to high. I know i could sit down and figure all the material and how long i think it will take me and how much i want to make a day and go from there but i dont know if that will be the competive price. So if any of you out there can tell me what you would charge a sq ft. in your area for the same type of job it would be greatly appriciated. And if you live near my area if you could tell me that would be even better also. Thank you.
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dave $300/ sf
nah ... wait.. the guy down the street is only getting $75.... wait... i read in one a dem mmags about how the average was $120..nah..
DAVE... you are betting the ranch.. there are only 3 things that can happen.. you will make money....
break even.. or
lose money..
if it's the last 2.. pass..
the only sf prices you should be using are your own.. and you have to develop them.. even then they won't work unless you adjust them for the differing conditions of each job..
and..
what do you care how much the other guy is charging .. where did they get their pricing savey ?
most don't have a clue...most! not some ....most!
read thru these archives about pricing.. stop looking for a magic formula.. it doesn' t exist...
b but hey, whadda i no ?
*Dave...I will figure it for you...Send $2000 for my time and I will have it done in two weeks.near the stream at your service,ajI can also do your kids homework for $150 and hour...email it anytime.
*"So if any of you out there can tell me what you would charge a sq ft. in your area for the same type of job it would be greatly appriciated. And if you live near my area if you could tell me that would be even better also. "Dave, you're asking others to do your estimates. Each of us operate differenently, have different overheads, shoot for different net profits, and on and on. Besides, you will learn nothing if you don't learn how to properly estimate for your own company, and subsequently, will quickly go under. You simply cannot charge what others charge just because that's what they charge. If you do, you will be competing on price only, again you will eventually go under. Never compete on price! There will always be someone cheaper.Forget what competitors would charge. You sell a service 1st. Many businesses get 20% to 30% more than their competitors. Find out what they do that enable them to get premium prices.
*Sonny, i understand that, and im not really wanting someone to do my estimates, but you have to still be somewhat competitive. I know there is always someone out there who will be cheaper, and i don't want to be the cheapest, but if your 50% or more higher then most other bids then you wont be getting the jobs. Everyone would like to make big profits on every job but lets face it, a small addition like the one in my post is only worth a certain amount, i don't care what kind of work you do, or service you give. I was only looking for a starting point in general to check my price against. If i were to be within the range of an acceptable price for this job, even if i was the higher bid i could then sell them on the service that i would give them and the quailty of the work that i would do that would justify the extra cost. But if im 30,000 more then homeowners highest bid and the other bids are responsible bids i know i wont get the job, how can you justify 30,000 dollars more? Thats why i was trying to get avarage sq ft price for this type of job.
*i I know i could sit down and figure all the material and how long i think it will take me and how much i want to make a day and go from there Dave,that is exactly what I would do,along with getting firm bids from your plumber and electrician.That way,you are grounding your bid on reality as much as you can.That leaves less to be intangible.If you must think in terms of square foot pricing,then after you figure what the job is worth for you to do,then divide and you will know what this one particular job will cost per square foot.It will be the only job that is this price per square foot,no two jobs are the same.There are no shortcuts to learning what it costs YOU to build.Do detailed estimates,keep records and learn how to make the customer believe you are the only one for the job.LuckJ.W.
*Dave, you still miss my point. Regardless of what the competition is, you still have to cover your expenses and desired net profit. It's a well known fact in our industry that most small remodelers just don't know their real operating costs. Therefore they base their pricing on an unstable foundation to begin with. Forget about some other pricing of which to base yours upon or compare it with. That's not important. What is important is selling yourself to these people. I routinely estimate my prices based on a labor rate of over $75 per hour, while most of my competitors use a basis of as low as $35 per hour. My son bases his rates routinely at between $100 and $125 per hour while his competitors use rates of $65 to $85. His and mine represent one hell of a difference from our competitors. Yet I'm always booked up and he is always booked up for a minimum of 6 months, and currently, as of today, has exactly 20 clients waiting for his price and already signed contracts based upon only ball barks. Last year his net profit was 20% - 3 to 4 times the norm in our industry. He got that by "selling" himself and his company, not by gauging his prices on the competition.You use the term "acceptable" to define your price to these people. "Acceptable" is based upon their "perception" of "value" - the value they interpret as worth it or not. It's up to you to make them realize your "value" to them as their choice for their contractor. If you don't "sell" your price, you will end up "buying" the job, and regretting it. Remember, none of us ever lost money on a job we didn't take.Anyway, good luck. Just don't underestimate so they percieve you're in the ball park with the rest. And on this basic addition, if you are 50% more than the rest, then something's way wrong with your estimate - or the others.
*Thanks for the insight Sonny you got me looking at this in a different light.
*Hey AJ, I just yelled at Tom for putting 70 hours per week in his business and told him to hire a combination estimator/assistant.How about if I find a house for you with 5 acres "WITH a stream"?
*Sonny....Six months in Florida annually would be just the ticket...How far from a warm beach and vball court would I be?near the stream and then the beach,aj
*Hi Dave T.,This is a part of the business you need to learn and enjoy. There's plenty of info around to help you work out a price. Use your noggin'! And keep a record. Draw a good sketch and make copies. Contact the subs. Do a material take-off. Get into it, on your own and be able to substantiate your price. Okay! Good luck and enjoy remodeling,Dan-O
*Dave, I've found that one good way to estimate a job of this size is to do basically what you spoke of. Make a list of each step and all the materials that you will need along with everything you will need to sub out. Put an amount for hours of labor next to each step and then add in for anything extra that you might not think of such as necessary errands and hauling away trash, or for things that take longer than you think they will. Take the labor and multiply that by what you want to make an hour. Get real estimates from subs for work, not just rates because subs like to find things to charge extra for and if you don't figure for this it will come out of your profit. Then add up materials, don't forget the tax or any special order or delivery fees and extra for waste. Add on a little to coordinate the project, add for permits and then submit your bid. Whatever you do, don't cut your final figures just because they seem too high. This is always a mistake. Keep before and after photos of every project you do and bring them in an album when you go to sell the job to the customer. Put any letters of appreciation or recommendation into the album too. You'll get the hang of it after a few jobs. Don't forget your overhead- your insurance, advertising, tools, truck expenses, etc. when deciding on your hourly rate. Hope this helps.
*Dave, one other thing. Don't worry about square foot prices. Basing your estimate on them will get you into trouble because every job is different. The size of the area of the addition is one of the less important factors of the job. The materials, labor and the details of each job are what determine what you should charge. If you base your estimates on square footage the best you can hope for is to win some and loose some unless you have the experience to know what to add in extra for.
*Scott thanks, I guess i have learned something new. I will take all of your advice and use it wisely, Thank you all.
*I wouldn't bid it on a square foot price. Break it down into individual pieces. Foundation one price, framing another, ect. Allow a little extra for the roof. Base these prices on past performance. Think how long the job will take you and calculate your overhead. Add it all together and that is you price. If you want, figure it into a square foot price and compare it to others but don't change it.
*Dave,If you have no idea what this project will cost you may be in trouble already.If you dont have experience with a job like this you should stat ffom the beginning and price the job piece by piece. I would think about subbing out more of the work and use the expertise of other tradesmen to help get the job done. Good luck, Mark
*Dave- These guys speak the truth!!!You've got to get the numbers togetheron your own and it may be somewhere inbetween those figures you already have.Your client or prospect does'ntknow a damn thing about what you need to do to build this 18x20 addition.This won't have anything to do with you making money on the job, or gettingthe job or losing it. Forget competing with the local gentry,or trying to know the others guy's system.Most of those lowballers do poor work.
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Im recently new at the bidding end of this business and i am bidding a 18' x 20'addition. It will be a turn key addition i will do it all from the excavation to the final piece of trim. I will be however subbing out the electrical and the plumbing. And i would like to try to get a starting point as far as SQ.FT.$$ goes so i am competitve with the other builders that will be bidding against me. Just a little backround on the project so you guys dont have to come back to me and ask for more info. Ok here goes first i live in the suberbs of NYC about one and a half hours north. The foundation will be block with just a crawl space with a rat slab.This addition is going to have 1 bathroom and the rest of it will be a bedroom so it just consists of a single floor. The bathroom will be basic stuff no expensive fixtures or tile work.There will be 3 total windows in this addition all andersons and 1 exterior 3-0x 6-8 Stanley metal door. just your avarage sizes casements the siding will be vynil and the roof will be a simple shed type roof with asphalt shingles. Thats probably the jist of it, its just the basics with no frills i will be painting the inside Will also be running a loop of hot water basebored i dont have to upgrade the furnace. I have heard in the past the the prices could be as low as 110.00 sq ft then i was talking to someone and they told me 170.00 a sq ft but i think that is to high. I know i could sit down and figure all the material and how long i think it will take me and how much i want to make a day and go from there but i dont know if that will be the competive price. So if any of you out there can tell me what you would charge a sq ft. in your area for the same type of job it would be greatly appriciated. And if you live near my area if you could tell me that would be even better also. Thank you.