May sound silly but I can’t find anything in the codes book that says a house has to be square plumb or level. After some thought i have never heard an inspector comment on this either. Help me out with an arguement that looks like i’m losing. Where’s Piffin when you need him.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Get a closer look at the building process for this durable, flush, lightweight door.
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Fine Homebuilding Magazine
Fine Home Building
Follow
-
Fine Homebuilding
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial Now -
GBA Prime
Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
I've never seen those mentioned in a code book. Occasionally I've seen some references to how far a truss can be out of plane in spec books for commercial structures.
You might get by with some arguement like "Acceptable construction practice" or something like that.
What exactly have you gotten yourself into here?
Having control over myself is nearly as good as having control over others.
>> What exactly have you gotten yourself into here?
That sounds ever so slightly accusatory. Wouldn't it be more supportive to ask, "What are the forces of evil trying to do to you this time?"
Accusatory, huh ???
No one ever accused me of being PC, ya know. DW married me for my good looks, not my tactfullness..............(-:
I called the family doctor this morning and said: "My Wife dislocated her jaw - do you think we could get an appointment in a week or two?"
Plumb square and level...........Boss, This started out with my idle commment on morning break with most of the subs present, It immediately turned into a "betcha a six pack" and thats worse pressure than any "code inspector" could cause. You might have guessed it, the homeowner was standing behind me listening intently. The homeowner called the inspector and wanted to know why the code writers shouldn't be senteced to "10 yrs in the electric chair"I started getting this creepy feeling that I may have " opened mouth inserted foot", so iI turned to Breaktime to see if somebody could cover my hindquartersfor making the comment "its not in the code book". Its interesting the number of levels and 100 foot tapes that have appeared on the job, looks like Lowes or Menards tool display. So far 1.the inspector "will get back to you on this' 2.The homeowner and wife have called everybody from Bob Vila to their congressman and are pretty sure they are getting screwed somehow. 3.and worse yet the damn drywallers are laughing at me because of what I stired up. If somebody can help me I promise half of my kingdom to you and the orignal six pack. nails.
I've built a number of boat houses on floats on a lake. We always strived to keep them upright. Inspector, who likes to eat, would step out of my boat onto the deck structure and any previous attempt at "level and plumb" was all for naught.
Amazing what you can get into when you open your mouth at the wrong time, isn't it?
Sounds like your biggest problam right now is the homeowners thinking they're getting screwed? Maybe a candid conversation with them is in order - Pointing out that this was just jobsite B.S. and nothing serious. Or maybe pointing out that hundreds of otherr houses around Springfield have been built without the benifits of codes specifying what "level and plumb" mean.
Probably the best solution is to deal with it quickly - Don't wait for it to get any worse. The more time they have to dwell on it, the more stuff they're likely to dream up that's "wrong".
Wish I had a better suggestion..................
I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.
What, do you have a code inspector on your Back? lol
"I was born in the country, razed in the city, I'm a natural born shaker from my hips to the ground"
Yup, square, plumb, and level are only concepts and the acceptable tolerances are specifications.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Just don't try to build a gazebo "square"... ;-) Sorry, just a stupid thought that went through my head when I saw the title...
Thanks Phill .......Concepts thats a beautiful word that I can use with most logical people. I hesitate to use acceptable tolorences and specifications cause they are gonna ask me "wheres mine" and in framing the house I truthfully dont know. I think you started me climbing out of this hole i've got myself in . I am grateful. nails II
"Dear Mr & Mrs. Homowner,
The code book and code inspectors are simply here to insure that the house is safe and secure for you to reside there. If a wall is leaning at a 45 angle, they will simply want to know that it is properly braced, and that the load path is supported correctly so it doesn't fall on you.
In the other hand you have hired me, a professional builder, to insure that your dream house is built with the craftsmanship and attention that we both can be proud of."
If that doesn't work, feed said homowner the 6 pack and hope that by the 6th one all the walls look juuusssst fine to them ;)
You know - there might be something to that. Wasn't there mention in a thread recently that a few drinks made the ooposite sex appear more attractive?
So why wouldn't that work for a crooked wall?
Last night I shot an elephant in my pajamas How he got in my pajamas I'll never know.
Hey stray I tried that buy you a beer with the homeowner and he said no thank I am a recovering alocholic , I congratulated him and wished him continuing success. An interesting point he made when we were talking {we are still talking ,thats half the battle} that he took the plans to the carpet store and the subject was brought up with the salesman about out of square rooms . The salesman told him that seldom if ever they came across room that were square and he allways recomends buy an extra yard of carpet to correct this problem. So..the homerowner tells me he feels a lot better knowing that its a common "practice" to have an out of square house. Wadda ya think?
I think you owe the guy at the carpet store a beer.
common "practice" to have an out of square house. Wadda ya think?
It is common to find a slightly out of square "room", I hope nobody is actually "practicing" at it though.....an out of square "house" is another matter as is out of level and out of plumb. Granted all of us could throw a level on nearly all the walls in the world and find most out a hair or so. What kind of "out of square" or "out of plumb" or "out of level" are we talking about???? a piece of an inch or inches?? or god forbid feet??
Ditch
Ah, you've described the problem wonderfully: residential architects are notorious for not specifying tolerances on residential blue-prints, so who knows what's "acceptable" or "industry practise"..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
If you really want to find out about how "unsquare" the world is built, ask someone who hangs wallpaper.
The material suppliers , framers and drywaller hangers and tapers owe you a thanks for making us look good.
Hi LDB, Sometime ago I checked out this house with a 8 foot level no corners or walls were out more than 3/16 ths from top double plate to sole plate [some of the studs were twice this because of crown}. One of the baths was out of square 3/4 and was the worst case. Part of the sub floor was out of level 3/4 in 8ft ,I checked out the pour foundation walls and it had a 3/4 hump that was transfered from the footings.Phill Giles gives a good explanation of the problem , but the code books still dont say a house has to be square plumb or level.
You checked every thing but your level, it sounds like1
;)Excellence is its own reward!
Well you really got me there..............went out to the truck and checked it out with 3 other levels just now found one of my 2 ft levels wasnt right checked it by reversing end to end and confirmed it. By the way is there any truth to the rumor that you were really interviewing for a talk radio host's position ,on homebuilding,with a major network?
now THAT'S funny! Wher did you here that one?Excellence is its own reward!
I remember listening to some rockers complain for 2 days how out of square the house was. To prove their point they kept pointing to windows and doors with the drywall tight at the top and a big gap at the bottom. All the while I'd see them using their big T-square for everything from a hammer, to a hook to reach down for lunch pail. I finally asked them if they'd checked it with an edge-to-edge check lately: darn thing was out by 2" over 4'..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
If you've got a house with curved wall(s), it can't meet code which has 'square' in it. Can't think of other (good) examples for plumb and level...Theresa Cowtown information junkie...
Let's all pray that we never incorporate "quality police" into the local building inspectors office.
Ditch
Hi nails! I'm a bit new to this forum, but I can answer your question about square, plumb, and level. The reason eveyrthing should be like that is so everything goes together smoothly throughout the homebuilding process; i.e., if the framers framed the walls out of plumb, the siding carpenters would have to angle-cut each piece of siding, not to mention the drywallers would have to scribe each piece. Hope this helps.
-FramerJay
[email protected]
Cap,
Youre right....cept the rockers can allow space at the floor where base covers it and when I get to siding and the buildings out I just adjust the corner posts to make em' plumb. Thing is....like in Japan, homes are figured out so pricisly that even 4" wall tiles in a bath should fit with out a cut....Techniclly youre right and one should always opt for perfection but dont count on it especially if you didnt do the work....
BE well
NAmaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM