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Discussion Forum

SS vs. Aluminum cable railings

hipaul | Posted in General Discussion on March 13, 2009 05:00am

Deck project coming up. Have not used any of the cable railing systems before but talked to the homeowner about doing it on this project (everyone’s in favor of it)

I had planned on using stainless steel cable railings, but there’s a local manufacturer that makes extruded aluminum cable railings and I’d just as soon go local.

It’s in suburban Portland, far away from any ocean, but is up on a hill and totally exposed to the West whereby it will get full sun, rain, storms, etc. at least half of the day every day.

Any reason to stay away from aluminum with no ocean salt fears?
I haven’t priced them out fully but I believe they’re close to the same cost. Though I can get the aluminum in 2-3 weeks, and wouldn’t get the SS for 6-7 weeks which could definitely impact the perfect timing.

Paul

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Replies

  1. Dave45 | Mar 13, 2009 07:25am | #1

    As long as the aluminum is strong enough to withstand the cable tension, there shouldn't be a structural issue. SS will probably look better after a few months, however.

  2. TonyCz | Mar 13, 2009 07:40am | #2

    The aluminum can stretch if someone stands on it.  The stainless steel will not be very likely to have that problem.  Check out a boat yard and see if they can make them up for you, Johnson is the manufacture of the fitting.  

    I just worked on one here in Southern California with SS stanchions. Along with a teak cap rail. Looks awesome about 70 feet of railing.  The teak alone was $2,800.00 to the client.

    Also as the other post has said there is quite a bit of tension on the cables once drawn tight.

     

  3. john7g | Mar 13, 2009 03:09pm | #3

    I'd go with the SS.  The AL will probably lose it's luster quickly as well as being much weaker. 

    1. hipaul | Mar 13, 2009 06:14pm | #4

      The loss of luster is the thing I'm most concerned about. I just realized I've got some aluminum posts with ipe rails that have been installed for a few years on another job, so I'll go pop over today and see how that aluminum looks now. That may help in the decision.

      1. john7g | Mar 13, 2009 08:33pm | #5

        Something to keep in mind is some AL products (especially aviation grade) have a pure AL coating covering the alloy that's underneath.  It's the alloys that corrode and cause the appearance/structural issues.  You might be comparing apples to oranges by using the posts as a standard to forecast the AL cable luster issue.  Since the AL cable mfg is local, you ought to be able to visit their facility and eye-ball the real deal. 

         

  4. davidmeiland | Mar 13, 2009 09:23pm | #6

    I've done SS cable rail and it stays shiny. Close to the ocean here. If the cost is comparable I would go SS no question.

    1. Snort | Mar 13, 2009 10:12pm | #7

      I just did one with cable from these folks:http://www.cablerail.com/contact.shtmlAll we needed was cable and fittings, order showed in less than two weeks.Great system, easy to make up , and nice hardware. We didn't get a lacing needle, would have made things a lot easier.http://www.tvwsolar.com

      I went down to the lobby

      To make a small call out.

      A pretty dancing girl was there,

      And she began to shout,

      "Go on back to see the gypsy.

      He can move you from the rear,

      Drive you from your fear,

      Bring you through the mirror.

      He did it in Las Vegas,

      And he can do it here."

  5. mike_maines | Mar 13, 2009 10:16pm | #8

    I've used the aluminum railing system that Feeney (cablerail.com) sells--I think it came from OR, probably the same one you're looking at.  We used it right on the ocean, with SS cables.  No problems a year and a half into it.

    View Image

    1. hipaul | Mar 14, 2009 03:21am | #9

      I think so. Hansen Architectural is the company. I stopped in there today to check it out and of course found out I had been given the wrong information before. They use the SS cable and only the posts and rails are powder coated aluminum.I was wondering why I had never heard of aluminum cable railings before, and now I know why.I love the look of the cable systems, and am excited to get to use one finally. I think I will end up using wood posts and cap with the SS cables on this job though. Adding the powder coated posts will be one more element than what I think they want.Beautiful looking job as well. I remember reading the article on it and have to admit I was geeking out on the SS brackets that got fabbed up. There's a lot of great metal fabricators around here, I just haven't gotten myself hooked up with the perfect one yet that I can work with on my projects.Paul

      1. KenHill3 | Mar 14, 2009 05:14am | #10

        I also have done the Feeney/CableRail system and it was great to work with, nice fittings, etc.. A much slicker way to go than site-built with eyes and turnbuckles.

  6. Danno | Mar 14, 2009 03:37pm | #11

    I don't know if it would be a problem, but when I've ever used those big, wide, aluminum landscape rakes (like when seeding a lawn) my hands end up shiny black--I guess no one wiould be holding onto a cable rail long enough for that. Aluminum, BTW, is affected by both acids and bases (amphoteric?), and where I live, there are enough pollutants in the air to oxidize it and make it sort of get whitish crusty stuff on it and it pits too.

  7. Boats234 | Mar 14, 2009 03:46pm | #12

    No matter who you deal with, I believe most of the components are imported.

    A friend of mine started a SS railing outfit a couple years ago.... He's local to your area if you wanted to go that way.  

    http://www.stainlesscablesolutions.com/index.html

     

    1. hipaul | Mar 14, 2009 04:27pm | #14

      Thanks for the heads up on that. I'll check him out. I knew that there would be no way any of the parts would be made in the U.S. but I'd rather buy local as much as possible even if it ends up costing more than shopping around online.

  8. User avater
    Matt | Mar 14, 2009 03:52pm | #13

    Just as an FYI some places have building codes that prohibit railing designs with horizontal elements that can act as a ladder.  Might be worth checking.

    1. hipaul | Mar 14, 2009 04:30pm | #15

      Thanks, we're fine on horizontals here. Fortunately they still value the freedom of a child to climb up where they're not supposed to be and learn "the hard way."

      1. TonyCz | Mar 14, 2009 10:08pm | #16

        Here is the company I was talking about if you need parts made call Redondo Marine Hardware

        http://www.redondomarine.com/frame.html

        They can make up the parts if you have trouble finding someone up in your area. Its very important that the cables are swaged on and not simply crimped on.

    2. confused2 | Mar 20, 2009 01:36am | #21

      Does any know if they can be installed vertically, how they look? Got any pics? Love the look of the cables, but our code is vertical only.

      1. Snort | Mar 20, 2009 02:28am | #22

        Not exactly vertical, but... HO is a Volvo engineer, made it up in their shop.http://www.tvwsolar.com

        I went down to the lobby

        To make a small call out.

        A pretty dancing girl was there,

        And she began to shout,

        "Go on back to see the gypsy.

        He can move you from the rear,

        Drive you from your fear,

        Bring you through the mirror.

        He did it in Las Vegas,

        And he can do it here."

        1. confused2 | Mar 20, 2009 05:52pm | #25

          Very cool, although not the look we want for our exterior cottage railings. Thx.

          CableRigger & John 7G , Cost is a factor as we have lots of deck to do. Guess I will go back to Plan A.

          Edited 3/20/2009 10:55 am ET by confused2

          1. mike_maines | Mar 20, 2009 06:29pm | #26

            You could always do your own, low-tech version:

            View Image

          2. confused2 | Mar 20, 2009 06:58pm | #27

            Thats not too bad, but I think the vertical application we need may be a pain in the you know where - at least with the horizontal, you can run through several post. Darn code... can't people keep their kids under control, not climbing up on things all the time :)

      2. john7g | Mar 20, 2009 02:34am | #23

        If you really wanted to spring for some hardware, put pulleys at the top and bottom rails and string the cable through them all.  Tension it one time and you tension the works.  Would really need a stiff upper rail.

        1. CableRigger | Mar 20, 2009 05:23am | #24

          If you use pulleys (or blocks as they're called in many other industries) you cannot use a 1x19 type cable  (1 strand surrounded by 6 surrounded by 12) - it is not flexible at all. It is the one most commonly used on cable railings, reason being it looks the best and has relatively low stetch.  A 7x7 type cable (7 groups of strands comprised of 7 strands in each group), which is more flexible and occassionally used on railings, would need a huge diameter sheaves in the pulleys.

          With reasonable size pulleys you would need to use 7x19 cable (7 groups of strands comprised of 19 strands in each group), but even this flexible cable would require a sheave diameter of about 12x the cable diameter, thus 1/8" cable would need 1 1/2" sheaves. And the cable is stretchy, so you'd have to tension and retension several times. Not to mention that the load placed on the top & bottom rails would be huge, even if posts were spaced close together. Each fall of the cable becomes and extra part in a block & tackle system that you would be creating.

          Vertical cables are a possiblity and are occassionally done, but with the large number of end fittings and the labor of swaging each one, the cost winds up being too much for most customers.

          These are some of the reasons why most of the cable railing installations you see are horizontal.

  9. CableRigger | Mar 19, 2009 06:23am | #17

    Most of the quality end fittings in the cable railing industry are made in the U.S.

    Except for their QuickConnect fittings, most of the ones that Feeney CableRail offer

    are made by CS Johnson (http://www.csjohnson.com) in Connecticut. You should do your-

    self a favor and check out their website - good information and great selection of end

    fittings.

    6-7 weeks seems way too long. If you want swaged fittings at both ends and you

     provide a rigger/fabricator with the exact dimensions/lengths and you've already

     selected the type of end fittings that you want, the delivery time should be a couple

     of weeks (assuming you're not doing a large commercial project like a stadium or

     something).

    Quick note - if you decide to use a DIY type kit (with Quick Connect type fittings at

    one end), you must make sure that you pretension each cable the same (especially

    long runs) cause the Quick Connect fitting relies on a set of toothed jaws that initially

    grip the cable with the assistance of a coil spring. If these jaws don't grab each run

    of wire in same place on each run, then once you tension up the other end, the

    swaged studs won't line up vertically - can be an eyesore. No chance of that if cables

    have swaged fittings installed at each end.

  10. Eventide | Mar 19, 2009 07:19am | #18

    Please use stainless steel. Aluminum elongates much more readily than steel and develops a white corrosion when not anodized. If you are using treated lumber, stainless steel is ok, I'm not sure about aluminum.

    Another source for stainless steel cable systems is a company named Jakob (check the web). They are not a US company, but they have an excellent system with tons of fittings.

    1. User avater
      Wayfarer | Mar 19, 2009 07:50pm | #19

      Don't mean to hijack Paul's thread, but I had a question.

      First off though, I GC'd a house and went with the cablerail system outlined above in side the house as railing downstairs (upstairs); I think I ordered the components online and just went across the Bay to pick them up in Oakland, CA.  I had the posts of metal fabricated and a wood cap put on.  I would liked to have used SS posts, but the cost was going to be a lot; at least to me at the time and it was towards the end of my project.

      I should have used heavier and bigger corner pieces to the system; I had two separate pulls and the corner posts anchoring the system started to bow as I cranked on the tension to the cables--had to back that off and the post went back straight.  Was real happy with how everything turned out overall; ended up painting the posts and top metal piece as they arrived on sight pretty dinged up.

      Anyway, I have decking outside, redwood with the same for railing.  What I had thought about at the time was putting in cable railing, but since the framing subcontractor did the decking, I didn't put in a change order to do the cable.  Now, about four since my final, I'm thinking of going back and putting in cable railing using the already installed posts.

      My question: how do I drill holes in the posts to make everything line up?  I mean do I use some sort of template?  Or just measure and mark each individual hole with a tape or some other rigging?  I didn't really want to remove all the posts to do this. 

      1. Snort | Mar 19, 2009 09:24pm | #20

        On the rail I pictured, we had cedar 2 x 2s w 1/4" sleeves on either side of a 6 x 6 PT post. We drilled holes in the 2xs with a drill press, fence, and a 1/4" hole in the drill press table 3" from the center of the bit.Stuck a 1/4" bit in the hole for a stop and drilled the top hole in all the 2xs. After that, we stuck a block of wood, for a handle, on the business end of a 7/32" bit, and dropped that thru the first hole in the 2x, and into the 1/4" hole in the table. We did that for each successive hole.Next screwed the 2xs to each side the 6 x 6, and and used them for templates. Used a 1/4" split point bit to start holes on each side of the 6x6, took off the templates, and finished boring from each side with a 3/8" auger. If the holes didn't meet, we either redirected the auger, or used a bigger auger.We didn't have a lacing needle, I'll get one the next time.http://www.tvwsolar.com

        I went down to the lobby

        To make a small call out.

        A pretty dancing girl was there,

        And she began to shout,

        "Go on back to see the gypsy.

        He can move you from the rear,

        Drive you from your fear,

        Bring you through the mirror.

        He did it in Las Vegas,

        And he can do it here."

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