As part of the wine cellar I am building, I have to attach about 6000 1″x1″ oak stops to the 1″x12″ oak cabinet sides. I would like to stain the parts with minwax oil based stain before installing. The stops will be attached with glue and 4 brads. It isn’t a problem to leave one side of the stops unstained, but I really would rather not have to mask 6000 strips on the cabinet sides.
How important is it for the glue to be bare wood to bare wood?
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Replies
6000...... damn I hope you're having a mill shop make them and not fabricating them yourself.
Can't answer your questions with certainty but I've never had a problem with glue and stained material.
go for it...
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6000 pieces? Really?
Before I didn't have any time in my life I made an end cut wood floor from 2x6's. I set a stop on my chop saw, bungeed the trigger on and sat there for hours and hours feeding boards in...
The result was a beautiful floor, and when I did a quick L pieces x W pieces count it was more than 6,000.
I wish I had some pics of that...
Phew, sounds like I'm ok. I am milling everything myself. All the stock is in 14' lengths and it feels like I'm making kindling out of it. The longest piece in the whole room will be 48"
Thanks for the replies.
hold on there. yellow glue works via a wood to wood moleculear bond. If you stain where you want to gle then the wood pores fill and can't accept the glue, therefor bad bond. ever wonder why glue stained wood doesn't stain...
what you could do is jut lay some blue tape sticky-side up on a table and stick down one side of the board that you want to stay clean then stain the rest. do multible boards, then carefully peel away the boards, then put fresh boards on.
there's no need to reinvent the wrench
Edited 5/21/2008 10:36 pm ET by andyfew322
Hmm. Each cabinet has 1"x12" every 4" running from top to bottom. Each 1"x12" has a 1"x1" on each side every 4" to stop the bottles from falling. I don't see how I can mask where these 1"x1"s go with out masking all 6000.
hmmm i see the problem. I gess just stain around it roughly so there's a bit of exposed wood?
there's no need to reinvent the wrench
What is the final finish going to be?
Could you assemble the individual 1x12's with the 1x1's already attached and then finish that as a unit? I would bet it would be more efficient then individually finishing all those individual pieces?
If you really want to punish yourself, you could dado the 1x1's in about 1/8" or so in for extra support, but I doubt you need it for strength
That might be the way to go. Then install them in the cabinets, which doesn't involve any glue. I'm also worried though, as has been mentioned, excess glue won't take the stain. After all the work, I sure don't want them blotchy.
Andy, penatrating stain does not fill the pours like glue does. The reason stain doesnt stick to glue covered wood is because the pours are filled by the glue and the glue also skims over the top of the wood preventing the stain from going into the pours, I doubt the same applies to glue sticking to stained wood.
Laq or poly finish would more then likely cause problems but I'd doubt stain will.
Espeacially with the amount (lack of) stress that will be on these pieces. With 4 brads and some glue they will be able to hold a wine bottle fine IMO.
Just for safety sake let the stained pieces dry for at least a week before trying to glue them
The guys/gals at the Knots forum (another Taunton forum like this one) for woodworkers could probably give you a more definitive answer, along with ideas of how to do it.
Thanks, that might be a good idea. I woke up in the middle of the night realizing I would be gluing the stops across the grain on the 1"x12", which would be a problem if they shrink or swell. This is one of those things where I'm coming to the nuts and bolts of how to build it very late. Something I usually don't do.
Are you positive you even need the glue?
You could probably get away with 2 screws per 1x1. If you set up a jig on a drill press pre-drilling would be fairly easy and you'd only need 12,000 screws instead of 24,000 nails ;)
If it's going a dark stain color you could use antique brass colored screws and they would be hardly noticable especially when filled with wind bottles, one about 1" in from each side, maybe a brad in the center if you're feeling crazy.
I don't have any solutions but to answer your question, if the stain also acts as a sealer it will not take glue. It might temporarilly, maybe long enough for you to think it worked, but it will fall apart in short time. MinWax penetrating stain is also a sealer.--------------------------------------------------------
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minwax stain makes the "sealer" claim but experience tells me otherwise. I have had no problem with yellow glue on stained pieces provided the parts have had ample time to dry, like 4 days minimum
its no different than using a water based finish over a mineral based stain.
you could also speed things along with a water based stain or use a polyuerathane glue over the mineral based stain
Use poly glue on oil stain, yellow glue over water based dyes..no problems. I'd go ahead and let the minwax ( yuck) dry well and have at it with TBIII tho'. But, thats me..it's more about the clamping than the stain glue interface. Brads are not good clamps, so the poly is a safer bet.
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As it turns out I've been worrying about nothing. I did a mock up attaching the stops with four brads using no glue and found it was strong enough to hang off. I had a had time knocking it apart with a rubber mallet. Hardly scientific, but I think it should be drunk proof.
Again, thanks for all the help.
Nothing is drunk proof. :D--------------------------------------------------------
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...I did a mock up attaching the stops with four brads ...
Galvanized brads? If not, it would be a good idea.
I think poly glue would work.And Roo glue (if I have the name right). It is the adhesive that will glue melimean coated boards..
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