Looking to benefit from others’ wisdom here. I’ve finished woods of all kinds in just about all ways for the better part of 40 years but I’m coming up empty with trying to stain the Radiata pine used in Marvin’s Integrity windows. Truthfully, I had most always avoided getting into a situation of staining soft woods to begin with, but I’m not getting hardwood windows and this time painting just won’t fit the bill. I’ve already given up on finding anything decent with a penetrating stain, going with a (Zar) wiping stain. But even with a lot of sanding and using a wood conditioner, the finished product looks pretty hack. Any suggestions/ helpful techniques? Should I be wiping as I go (rather than brush on, wipe off) or wiping only small areas at a time? Would I have better outcome with a sealer instead of a wood conditioner?
Many thanks,
Andrew
Replies
Some products come from the manufacturer already sealed .. in this case you will need to sand down the whole unit before anything will take. If it's not sealed, or once this is done, use a pre-stain conditioner (MINWAX), brush it on liberally and note places where the wood sucks it up really fast, these spots will look water logged when everything is pre-stained. Stain these spots last, it's almost better to not stain them and just wipe from a stained spot over them when removing the excess stain. If it helps the stain does even out a bit more over time ... luck to you ..
My sashes were faux painted. Didn't realize it until they were taken down to be re-glazed.
Andrew,
I read somewhere that directions on the wood conditioner can are incorrect. It says to put the stain on within a few hours, but this results in blotches. If you allow the conditioner to dry overnight you will get less blotches. I tested it out and letting the conditioner completely dry works better.
I'm about to stain some pine Marvin windows in my addition. I need to stain them relatively dark to match the existing stained woodwork in the house. After doing lots of research I've decided to seal the wood with shellac, then use a gel stain as glaze, then a poly finish. I'm also experimenting with using minwax polyshades as a toner to get the wood background darker prior to the glaze.
I like shellac because it drys quickly, allowing you to recoat quickly.
I'd suggest that for your top clear coats you look into some of the new lacquers from Sherwin-Williams that are more UV resistant than poly. Also you can add TransTint dye to color them. Work your color up to the point you want, don't try to match it right off the bat.
Mike,
Wow, talk about experience! Thank you. I'm still going to experiment with ZAR's sealer to see if it works any better than the Minwax Conditioner I've been using but I am for sure going to try everything you've recommended.
Mnay thanks,
Andrew
From an old poster here, Goldhiller, I now only use this stuff on my wood.
http://www.targetcoatings.com
The Ultima Spray Lacquer is great. Over their base sealer, you get a nice depth to the wood. I'm just starting use of their water based stains, but note dilution is necessary.
Using an HVLP to apply it makes it looks real nice.
Unless they have just come to the market with a line of gel stains, I have never seen any such stains from Zar. The gel stains I mentioned are a whole different animal than any of the Zar stains. Old Masters makes a gel stain, which is different than their other ("wiping") stains.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
You should try any one of the gel stains sold by any paint store. I like the Woodkote brand, but there are others (like Old Masters, Bartley).
Gel stains are wiped on, and lay on the surface of the wood (unlike penetrating oil stains), so you don't have blotchiness. The stain will give a more even, uniform appearance.
********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Thanks for the reply. Guess you missed my description of early on abandoning penetrating stains in favor of a wiping stain. I tested 4 or 5 colors of Old Masters and another 3-4 colors of Zar before selecting the Zar product that I mentioned
Andrew
Edited 8/18/2006 12:24 pm ET by Andrew Gil
Edited 8/18/2006 12:28 pm ET by Andrew Gil
For wood finishing go to the Knots section here on Tauntons. They will be able to offer much help and advice, but I agree with others that you best bet is to start witha "wash coat" of shellac. Go to Knots and they can help.
FF
I'll try not to rehash too much
IMHO, Old Masters has to have a finer grind to the pigment b/c it always stains more evenly than Minwax on blotch prone woods
Minwax, as a product line, eh. Not impressed. Sherwins attempt at the homeowner market.
Conditioner, if you want to use one, really the easiest thing on pine is wipe it all with mineral spirits and then stain right on top of it. The spirits in the wood keeps it from taking on as much stain.
That said, someone mentioned transtint. I agree 100%. Because dyes will make your windows look different than the trim around them, I usually prefer to use a diluted pigment stain, which will be lighter, and then use dyes, which won't blotch, to tweak the color to match everything else. Its kind of an attempt at splitting hairs. Oak and pine aren't going to look the same period, but dyed pine and stained oak, the pine will be almost too even with just a dye. The mineral spirits/stain first gets some of the grain to stand out, and usually not blotch in the process.
And you can tint many other finishes with them. Another thing I've done, and like real well, is use a real thin cut of dewaxed blond shellac. You get just enough shellac to bind the dyes in, you're getting a little bit of a sealer coat, which is never bad, and you can mix the dyes in thin and just tweak away. It dries so fast when its cut thin like that, using a tiny little gravity feed SATA touch up gun, I think one day I did 17 coats of "tweaking" on a one-off window frame in under an hour. We started at bland oak and ended at dark mahogany. Pretty slick. Then you can lacquer right on top of it.
"Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton