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stainless or galv for siding

| Posted in Construction Techniques on July 26, 2002 02:40am

I am installing cedar siding (new construction) and have heard that galvanized nails will react with the tannins in cedar causing a dark staining.  I would like to use stainless nails but at 10cents each don’t know if I can afford them.  In the past I have used a framing nailer with 2-3/8 RS galv nails.  The nails are set below the surface but I use a matching caulk to fill each hole preventing moisture to penetrate.  After two years (dry climate) I have seen no staining.  The work to fill the holes with caulk is not a concern as I prefer to spend the extra time to insure the cedar does not stain.

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  1. User avater
    Mongo | Jul 26, 2002 04:40am | #1

    Craig,

    When nailing clapboards, you really don't want to break the face grain of the clap by setting the nail below the face of the clap. You want to set the nail head flush with the face of the clap. Not proud, not set, just flush. As such, I always recommend hand nailing cedar claps instead of air nailing them. Better control, better looking install at the end of the project.

    I'd really like to encourage you to go with a good stainless nail. There's no follow-up labor, no caulking...nail it off and you're done.

    Where are you buying the nails? How big is your siding project? If it's a large project...and with a new house, I'd think it would be...look to buy in bulk instead of buying a cart full of one or five pound boxes. With stainless, there certainly is an economy of scale.

    They're pricey...but worth it.

    1. jimblodgett | Jul 26, 2002 04:44am | #2

      Stainless, handnailed.  No question about it.  Gotta go pick rasberries.

      Brinkmann for president in '04

      1. JohnSprung | Jul 27, 2002 02:50am | #7

        OK, where do you get the best deal on stainless nails in bulk?  I'm thinking they'd be ideal for the stucco moulding on my new windows.

        -- J.S.

        1. ahneedhelp | Jul 27, 2002 02:59am | #8

          Try Swansecure.com

          Call them - very helpful.

          No shipping charge usually.

          1. Snort | Jul 27, 2002 03:19am | #9

            I have hand nailed countless beveled cedar siding boards with Maze hot dipped galvanized nails...25 years and no ill effects(definitly nothing stuctural)... I'm not trying to be canterkerous (although I certainly can be) but why,exactly are the stainless steel more effective? I have stained staineless steel knives, I've been in boats with stains running out of stainless steel fasteners, where's the quality control here? and what's the point? I understand my thickness, but could someone really elucidate me?

          2. jimblodgett | Jul 27, 2002 03:42am | #10

            Look at the nailheads on page 106, issue 148, 'snort.  Those are hot dipped galvanized, less than 20 years old.  Stainless aren't supposed to stain like that.  There are even a couple different types of stainless, I guess, "Type 304" for protection from other than salt water, and "Type 316" for salt water applications.

            Another source is Manasquan Premium Fasteners (800) 542-1979.  They have nails, screws, Simpson hangers and anchors...probably more, by now.

            And I guess everyone knows about McFeely's http://www.mcfeely's.com. They sell stainless along with about every other type screw that ever was.

            Went to Home Depot today and got me a rib rack for Smokey.  Our son is coming home this weekend and that boy can eat some meat.  Been enjoying shrimp these past couple nights...come to think of it, that sounds good right now.  Gotta go fire that thing up.

            Brinkmann for president in '04

            Edited 7/26/2002 8:46:34 PM ET by jim blodgett

          3. JohnSprung | Jul 29, 2002 08:53pm | #12

            There are lots of different kinds of stainless, here's info on a few, including 304 and 316.

            http://www.precisionsteel.com/summary.cfm?SubSection=4

            There are also some that are called "free machining" which means that they don't work harden as severely as most.  But even those aren't so great.  Ask machinists, and you'll find that stainless is just about their least favorite material.  Copper is another -- it's gummy, and expands a lot with heat from cutting.

            -- J.S.

          4. royr | Jul 29, 2002 09:28pm | #13

            GO to Killington Vermont and you'll see acres and acres of cedar clapboard condo's all with dark running lines every 16" due to gal. nails. It's so bad it looks like they did it on purpose. Built in the 1980's.........ran within two years.

            I just ordered 6300 lin ft. of henlock clear 6" clapboard and will also use S.S. nails

            My 2 cents

          5. archyII | Jul 27, 2002 03:50am | #11

            S.S. does rust depending on the grade (each grade of S.S. is designed for certian application) and if it has been welded using too much heat or the wrong electrodes/wire.

          6. Snort | Jul 31, 2002 03:44am | #16

            Yeah, I know...what I'm saying is I'm around a lot of boats and see stains coming from stainless steel and fasteners thereof...seems like a fact of life...Jim, I saw the meter cover pics, and the stains do look a little overboard, but I'v used Maze galvies for years and haven't seen stains to that extreme...what I was wondering, though, does the staining of galvanized stuff have anything to do with the structural superiority of stainless? And where is the quality control? Whoz gonna tell me if I use this fasten it might stain? ...I'd like to build fine homes at a reasonable cost, and without vinyl, no matter who likes it!

          7. jimblodgett | Jul 31, 2002 06:49am | #17

            Maybe I should give those Maze galvys a try.  Why not?

            Brinkmann for president in '04

  2. User avater
    Mongo | Jul 26, 2002 04:57am | #3

    Forgot to add one more thing...

    If you buy in bulk, you can also use the nails for nailing off the trim on your house. Depends on the size, of course...I also use them when fabricating square picket fencing.

    Raspberries, jb, at this hour? Just remembered...you're on the other side of the world where it's still sunny out. Enjoy!

  3. vasalesman | Jul 26, 2002 01:52pm | #4

    Cedar?  Stainless steel.  Always.

    Al

  4. River19 | Jul 26, 2002 03:16pm | #5

    I am doing cedar claps as we speak on my house and I went for SS.  The incremental price for the nails as a % of the project is negligible.  I bought them in bulk for my nailer (I don't have time to hand nail the whole house by myself) online, plus I bought a bunch in bulk for hand nailing my scarf joints.

    If you have the time & $ hand nail with SS, you'll be happy you did later.

    Although I have my nailer set perfectly for leaving the nails just flush and slightly proud if not flush (better to finish off by hand than break the surface).

    Good Luck

    SJ

    Know a little about alot and alot about little.
    1. ahneedhelp | Jul 26, 2002 03:51pm | #6

      This probably doesn't help this discussion at all but....

      Installed beveled cedar siding with (tan) coated screws.

      Pre-drilled the holes after trying a couple without.

      12V drill for holes, 18V for driving.

      Used tips from FH for solo hanging long boards (12').

      Although stainless nails would have been preferrable, I need to be able to remove the siding down the road when that part of the house will be modified and reinstall the boards. (Opted against the stainless screws.)

      It was a solo DIY project, so cost overrun due to time was not a factor.

      After three 4-seasons, no signs of rust.

      All boards were pre-coated with CWF before going up, and then another coat on the outside.

      Another coat earlier this year with no signs of graying.

      As a clarification, it's not the entire house.

      Only the carport area bedroom walls and a large storage closet that encloses the carport.

  5. woodwormal | Jul 29, 2002 09:58pm | #14

    I don't know where you live but, if you have access to a hardware chain (h w i ) they sell them for $7.00 lb.in 5# boxes .

    1. nigelUsa | Jul 29, 2002 11:21pm | #15

      You use Stainless steel for the same reason you would use carbide tipped blades or clad windows or estwing hammers. maintance free for years to come.

  6. tmichie | Aug 03, 2002 09:29am | #18

    I only use stainless on cedar.  I buy them in bulk coils for my siding nailer and get them at a reasonable cost from my local nail and staple supplier.  I use a Hitachi nailer with the single shot triger to ensure no double fire.  I also go one step farther and have custom paint mixed, I then paint the heads a matching brown color so I can use the same nails for trim and any face nailing.  If you have a good gun and set it properly you won't have a problem with the depth of the nail.

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