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Stair Safety Question

johnhardy | Posted in General Discussion on July 14, 2003 04:07am

My son’s house in Berkeley, Ca., is probably 60 to 80 years old. The stairs from the upper floor to the downstairs runs at a 45 degree angle, and I’ve told him they’re extremely dangerous. They’ve now got a one-year old, and in addition to closing the door at the top of the stairs they’ve installed a gate.

What I’ve told him is that he should consider fixing this problem during an upcoming kitchen remodel. (The kitchen is completely separate, but while the guys are they they could fix this as well.)

Am I being too paranoid here? These steps are solid hardwood and the floor below is solid hardwood. I’m afraid that if/when someone takes a header it’ll be extremely serious … read this as a hospital stay or a trip to the morgue.

Any input from the experts here?

John

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  1. sungod | Jul 14, 2003 07:15pm | #1

    I have two sons, as soon as they both started crawling, I introduced them to the stairs.  They both came to the stairs and started tumbling, head first, and I caught them.   I then turned their butts around and let them craw down the stair backwards.

    If the stairs are 45 degrees, its too steep to meet code.  People with big feet have problems going down them, not up.   Usually steep stairs are too narrow too,  make sure the handrails wern't removed and put back losely.

    A few stairs pictured here are too steep and have no hand rails

  2. billyg83440 | Jul 14, 2003 08:23pm | #2

    Fortunately, you can no longer build stairs like that and meet code.

    Unfortunately, many older houses have these types of stairs, and it's difficult, expensive, or impossible to fix them in some cases.

    If there's room, I think you're right to suggest he have them fixed when he remodels. Which probably involves complete tear out and replacement.

    As far as small kids, they probably have less trouble with steep stairs then adults do.

    My wife often watches a small neice. Her mother is paranoid about stairs. We've found if you just leave her alone, she goes down and up the stairs once, and forgets about them. If you try to block them, she spends all day trying to get around the obstacle, and you have to constantly watch her.

    Her mom freaks when she sees the stairs open, but not once has her daughter gone down the stairs more then once. Once she sees she can, then she obsesses with getting out the front door and going outside, and forgets the stairs entirely. The key is to get her obsessed to go somewhere that isn't as dangerous as the stairs.

  3. Piffin | Jul 15, 2003 12:37am | #3

    Stairs is one feature that is hardest to design safely into a house. We could run a whole thread based on the number of times an architect has presented unworkable plans because of poor alloance for stairs.

    changing theem is likely to involve changing structural loads and spans through out that area of the house.

    I agree, it's not a good thing but sometimes you have to learn to live with it. Partly, that means not putting junk on the stairs, which most people do.

    I once read that most injuries happen in the home, and that most home injuries happen in falls, and that most falls happen on stairs, and that the most common reason for that is either a rug/runner slipping or tripping, or someone leaving stuff piled on the stairs that they intend to take care of later.

    So, by making sure that the stairs are clean and sound with no loose rugs or runners or junk piles, you cut your odds of injury approximately in half.

    .

    Excellence is its own reward!

  4. TommyB12 | Jul 15, 2003 01:08am | #4

    I think I'm and expert on stairs, having climbed them my whole life.  Built them for a number of years too.

    I like a comfortable stair, if their is enough room and money, why not change them if you live in the home and are concerned.  If you don't live their and your son is concerned and wants them changed but can't afford it maybe you could pay.

    Other than that, I wouldn't be concerned in the least, from a parents perspective.  A forty five degree stair for kids is alot safer then most of the equipment on your average playground.  Some of those stairs are so steep they're ladders.  Will the children be allowed to play on a playground?  Why not consider the stairs an inside playground if they are a little steep.  Do you have rubber bumpers on the corners of the furniture? 

    Honestly, I think if you idiot proof your house, you'll probably raise idiots.

    I think you should be able to build any stairs you like in your own house.

    Tom

    1. johnhardy | Jul 15, 2003 01:47am | #5

      Well, I know that whenever I walk down those stairs I hold onto both handrails. I'm 59 but not "old" yet. Perhaps I'm overly concerned about my grandson, but I've also expressed concern about adults. A 7 inch tread is pretty shallow, and an adult could overstep the next step and go crashing down.

      The bottom of the stairs are below the edge of the living room. If the stairs are extended 36 to 42 inches (there are 13 steps, now 7 inches deep by 7 inches high, and this would make them 10 inches deep by 7 inches high) you'd need to take part of the living room. My son has a grand piano in the living room and the area needed would be where his piano bench currently resides. The cutout could be made and result in a "planter box" that could replace the piano bench (cushion on top, of course). Future owners could use it as a plant stand or some such. Cutting the floor joists and strengthening them seems pretty straight forward. The stringers would have to be redone, of course, but this seems like a pretty minor fix to what I view as a potentially major problem.

      Who is to blame if a visitor takes a header? I'd think a lawyer could take him for the high end of his insurance, or even more. Stairs with a 45 degree pitch have been "non-code" for decades. Right?

      John

      1. TommyB12 | Jul 15, 2003 08:18pm | #6

        See,

        I knew it, you're really upset about lawyers. 

        I on the other hand am probably just a rotten parent.  I added a second floor to my house, and given the width, was unable to get a perfect code stair.  Treads and risers are ok, but I do not have 36" of 80" head room on the top landing.  My inspector said he probably wouldn't catch that.  But my stairs are stained hardwood, and will likely stay that way.  My wife was a bit concerned about this and asked my BIL who is and orthopedic surgeon, if this is safe, and he said that it would probably result in more injuries if someone takes a fall.  But guess what he has in his house?

        So anyhow, someday I'll get the handrail up, and my 1,3 and 5 year olds will be safe.  Until then we have relied on old fashioned supervision and instruction on the proper use of the stairs.  

        If you seriously worry that much about your grandkids, your gonna get an ulcer when they get around something more dangerous than stairs.Tom

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