I am working on putting together a stairway with a finished tread/riser on the edge (open tread) and a carpet runner. Can anyone tell me how to handle the tread construction to achieve a nosing for the carpet to wrap around? What do you use for your tread material? Plywood? 2x? Do you install the tread with an overhang clear across the tread and then notch out for the finished edge?
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Plywood? No, don't use plywood, way too much flex. You should be able to just
go out and buy stair tread material. Just about every single lumber yard carries
it in fir and often oak too.
It also sounds to me like you may be making this project harder than it really
is. Were you possibly thinking of using a plywood tread with a solid wood nosing
to save money? If you were whatever you might save on materials you would lose
in time with the additional fabrication steps you are creating.
"Do you install the tread with an overhang clear
across the tread and then notch out for the finished
edge?" I guess I'm not sure just what the question you are asking
here is.
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"Function is based
on more than utilitarian factors. Ambiance invites use."- Sarah Susanka
"You should be able to just go out and buy stair tread material. Just about every single lumber yard carries it in fir and often oak too."
I've never seen or heard of stair tread material. Everybody around here seems to use 2X SYP treads, then just attach carpet on top of that. (Stairs with wood treads are pretty rare)
What size and length do you buy the material in?Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
I've bought 1-1/4" x 12" x 12' bullnose particle board stair tread in Colorado. Don't remember what I paid for it. I used it for continuous bookshelves across the end of a 12 x 16 living room.
Particle board for stair treads ???
Doesn't seem like it would be stiff enough for that.........For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
For housed treads you're probably right, but if you think three stringer stairs, it's plenty stiff.
Well Boss to tell you the truth we usually either make our own treads or order and buy them from a stair builder supply company since species like cherry and mahogany are not necessarily readily available.
But I do know my regular lumber yards carry them as does our local Home Depot. In fact the HD sells both Yellow Pine Stair tread (instead of DF) and Oak (48" wide). By 2X SYP treads do you mean stairs get built where you are with 1-1/2" square edge profiles? Yeech! Everything carpeted? How boring. I love stairs and like to think of them as permanent furniture.
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"Function is based
on more than utilitarian factors. Ambiance invites use."- Sarah Susanka
"In fact the HD sells both Yellow Pine Stair tread"
What's different about "stair tread" versus 2X lumber? Is it a different grade, or flatter, or what?
"By 2X SYP treads do you mean stairs get built where you are with 1-1/2" square edge profiles?"
The front edge of the tread is typically flush with the edge of the riser, so what difference would it make? Or are you doing something different?
Not trying to give you a hard time, just curious.The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.
>> The front edge of the tread is typically flush with the edge of the riser ...
I thought the code required a minimum 1" nose. Something about wanting an 11" minimum tread depth even when the run is less than 11". I've seen flush treads on concrete steps, but even there I sometimes see the riser tilted forward to create some nose.
Don't know about codes - We don't have any (enforced) codes around here.A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
You can buy stair tread. It already has the nosing profile. A for the "notch(ing) out for the finished edge?" (?) if you mean how do you make the nosing profile wrap the corner - you first cut a 45 into the corner and then cut off the thickness of the tread off the end up to the 45 cut made first. Then glue on a moulding which matches the tread front nosing.
FHB had a great article on this during the past Spring or Summer. They had a drawing which was quite thorough and showed the sequence of construction. It will even answer the questions you haven't thought of yet.
FHB had a great article on this during the past Spring or Summer. They had a drawing which was quite thorough and showed the sequence of construction. It will even answer the questions you haven't thought of yet.
Any idea on the issue? I've looked through all of my back issues and haven't found that one.
Can anyone look up FHB 121, page 99. The picture in the upper right should illustrate my question better. That is my situation exaxtly. Do you wrap carpet and pad over the rough plywood tread with it's overhang over the riser or what? In the picture the author cut a little of the overhang off to install his finished materials. What is the step between his picture and carpet?
Edited 2/24/2003 6:34:22 PM ET by AJ
The few times I've seen this I believe the center part of the tread was fir or some other less expensive wood than the exposed left and right side, which were oak.
The center portion was set back as far as the nose went, and since it was a separate piece I think it was just not as wide as the oak sections.
John
AJ it's pretty rare to see a stair done like that (FHB 121, page 99 ). It
looks like the author has taken a cheap spec built stair and is trying to dress
it up. We're a stair shop and we've only done one small part of a project like
that in the last six years if my memory serves me correct. If I was doing your
project just as it show in the FHB photo I would cut off all of the existing
overhanging play and attach my own (better formed) stock bullnose and then
add the appropriate scotia or cove underneath it. That makes for a nice wrap
with the carpet runner. Since the existing stairs are already there you can
use ply as a tread fill-in behind the bullnose and as a new riser face and
it wont make any difference.
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That's how most carpet stair runners are run. However if you want the top
of the carpet to be flush with the top of the "faux" stair open tread addition
that's another matter altogether and it would require you to test fit the carpet
and pad with appropriate shimming material and play around until you got it
so it looked "okay".
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"Function is based
on more than utilitarian factors. Ambiance invites use."- Sarah Susanka
Thanks for the input. I do appreciate it.
What would you do for a new construction situation such as this with a carpet runner and a finished open tread edge? What would you use for your "rough tread" and "finished tread"?
In new construction there wouldn't be a rough tread and a finished tread on top of it. There would just be a 1-1/8" thick tread. I think that's how you were confusing us before with your question. I know there are some carpenters out there that frame the stairs as part of the rouch carpentry phase of a construction project and then install "finish" treads and risers over them but that's not a well done stair in my opinion. An installation like that could be prone to squeaking and I can't see it being built nearly as "tightly".
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"Function is based
on more than utilitarian factors. Ambiance invites use."- Sarah Susanka
Jerrald, you're right. I was confusing you and myself (which can sometimes be a regular occurance especially on a Mon.). In my mind I was looking at a rough tread and then adding a finish tread over the top. What was coonfusing me was how to get the carpet to look right with that approach.
Thanks for the input!
I am currently reading a book by FH which compiles all of the top stair-building articles into one book aptly called, "Stairs." What else. Anyway it is very fascinating and informative. It is well worth the money for anybody even considering building stairs of any type. Even for the veteran builder, I find that it will stir your creativity.
Yeah, round here, we can get about any species of 1" x 11 1/4" bullnosed stair tread in up to 16' lengths as stock items. And our home depots also have oak and syp. Our code just went international , woo woo, but the max overhang used to be an inch, there was no minimum (look at metal units with no nose). I don't think I've ever seen a set of steps done with 2x and then carpeted. Seems like it would save some money, and I seem to recollect Blue showing some stairs he framed up with 2x skirts and treads that were finished. Funny how a simple thing like stairs have such regional construction diffs...
but back to the original question, I think with construction adhesive and screws, you can make just about any set of stairs sound (or better, you can build them so they don't make a sound). I've been putting treads and risers on other folkes' framing for years, and I'm in love with that Liquid Nails girl<G> EliphIno!
Ya BB, I don't have any squeaks trimming stickbuilts.
If someone would post the picture he was talking about, I almost think I could answer the question. I only have 4 ways to get out of this, I just don't know what he wants.
Miss Macko must be getting tired from holding that pose for all these years, though. I know the infatuation has lasted for nearly thirty years, for me.
We can also get stair treads in 3/4" thick as well as the 1-1/16" finished thickness.
But I need a minimum of 1-1/4" overhung to trim under with a scotia when using a bullnosed edge. One inbch wouldn't do it to look right.
In my work, I build a lot of them on site without housed treads. They have to seve during the job progress too. I used to frame for proper elevation, place plywood or board for temp during progress, then replace at latest date possible with the good treads and place risers then too.
Now, I glue and screw plywood to the stringers for the temp treads and leave it permanently. Of course I allow for the extra depth in layout. Then, I trim it by placing treads over the ply with the const adhesive..
Excellence is its own reward!
Your method is in my plan, Pif. Glue and screw ply treads and risers to the stringers and face over at the end. Besides using gunned glue, how are you fastening? Finish nails and putty? Do you find something like the "stair gage" tool useful in making skirts and treads that fit tight to the skirts?
Yes, stair gauge oats for itself in a couple sets.
Excellence is its own reward!
A stair guage is great. This one is set up for windows, but I just add riser wings or tread wings, and well you probably get the idea... EliphIno!