I recently poured a new slab in an old home I am remodeling. We poured the slab around the existing stairs. As a result, the bottom stair tread is about 1 3/8″ shorter than all the others.
Is there any way to make the stairs code-compliant (within 3/8″ difference between any tread height)? I was told that there may be a way to fix it by adding shim layers to the top of the treads of varying thicknesses.
The building inspector noticed this discrepancy put it on his hit list.
Here are the specifics of my situation:
- 11 stairs plus final step to the 1st floor
- Distance from concrete floor to top of first tread – 6″
- Distance to top of all other 10 steps – 7 3/8″
Any ideas on how to fix this other than ripping it all down and starting all over?
Thank you very much for the help.
Brant
Replies
Brant-
If my math is right, it sounds like you need to get all the risers to be just about 7 1/4" to get them all the same. Your "shimming" concept woull work, as long as you fix the nosings on the treads so they aren't all different thicknesses. Personally, I'd probably just rip the stairs out and start over, since it'll probably be just as much work as playing around with all the shimming, and the end result will be better.
Good Luck,
Bob
11 steps needing to gradually lose 1 3/8" would need an incremental adjustment of 1/8" each.
I'd cheat on this to the point of adding a 2x tread to the bottom step as a starting point. Then for the next one, you could either do the same thing, or plane an eighth inch off your (2x10?) tread. Third one would be a piece of 3/4" material plus 1/2" plywood underneath it. Fourth one use 5/4 material. Fifth one up is 1" so use whatever combination of materials you'd like. Two half inch plys is economical. Sixth one is 7/8 so I'd probably go with 3/8 ply and 1/2 inch. After this it gets pretty easy, you can decide how to keep the shims going.
In all cases I'd glue and screw. Won't be pretty at the nosing as earlier suggested but I'm assuming you want to please the inspector and don't want to build new stairs and since you poured concrete around this in the first place it isn't all that important to be beautiful looking.
1 3/8" is all the thicker your new concrete pour was?
Why don't you just pull up the first tread and add 1/4 under it, put 1/8 inch under the second and stop there. All treads will then be within tolerance of 3/8 inch or am I missing something harder than that?
Yes. you are missing something here.
*ceramic tile, full mud job
*run the sawzall blade along the floor then cut off the dif. unfasten the stringers except at the top and let the stairs down.
Rip it all down.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
BNow for the oddball question - when you add an inch to the second or third step up, willl you still have legal clearance for headroom?
If not, a total rebuild is in orderto keep that one off his hit list. You don't want him to discover the problem by hitting his own test noggin or you might find him laid out at the bottom of the steps and have to bury him quick and that could be hard to do with all that crete in the way.
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There was an article in which this was addressed by a stair finisher, and it was in a recent edition of either FH or JLC. I cannot remember which.
But this guy was talking about doing the fix on the rough carriages, before all the finish . . . treads, risers, skirts . . . goes on. And, his situation was usually caused by some dummy framer not taking into account the thickness of the mainfloor finish. Consequently, he's usually dealing with something like 3/4", not the 1-3/8" you've got.
His solution is to shim the carriages (a.k.a. "stringers") with each successive shim arrangement getting thinner, so as to minimize the diff between any two rises. His shims went on the CARRIAGES, and BEFORE the treads and risers were installed.
In your case you've got 1/8 inch per, going all the way up. Not too bad. Livable. The fix would be well within code.
But! Your stair is done. It's not in the rough.
Are you willing to pry everything off? All the treads, and most all the risers?
BTW, if you are reading this and you are a framer, don't get all hot about being called a dummy. You're not a dummy. You'll just need to leave the stairbuilding to smarties.
If it will make you feel better, framer, ask the stairbuilder to cut your next roof.
add 5/8 to every tread
You must be a framer.
That won't fix the problem, it just moves it
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this does not fix the problem...the bottom and top risers will be the same..but the other risers will still be the same measurement they currently are...different beyond the code (and common sense) limits
Is the situation amenable to creating a landing at the bottom step and taking it out of the scenario as 'a step'?
Very clever! I like that.
Look at the attached pic. I couldn't understand precisely, from your description, how many total risers you have, but you can get the idea of what is required from this.
While I supsect that the shiming method is safe, it does not met IRC.http://www.coffmanstairs.com/literature/c_910.pdf3/8" max difference between the largest and smallest risers.
Often times stairs come apart quite easily with a little poking, hammering, cutting and a few words that can't be repeated here. Unfortunately, just as many are mis-cut, mis-framed, mis-thought out, etc. so it doesn't matter how it comes apart as long as it will fit in the dumpster.
Even if you can get the treads and risers off in reusable condition I'd cut new stringers since very few are cut right in the first place and sistering the new with the old will help to stiffen things up. Having said that, if the existing stringers are superb examples of stairmaking craftsmanship and have enough beef to meet current structural standards (once you start taking something apart it now has to meet code inside and out) I wouldn't hesitate to carefully glue and screw shims to correct the position of the treads. To rip down the risers a bit I'd counter sink any cut off nails, use a circular saw demolition blade (or a regular blade you don't care much about) in the table saw in case you missed a few nails and start putting it all back together.
Cheers!
Don
Look again at my CAD drawing. No single rise dimension is more than 9/64" different from that of the one adjacent.
Well within code!
That is not what the code, at least as interpertated in that guide.It says."The GREATEST riser height within ANY flight of stairs shall not exceed the SMALLEST by more than 3/8 inch (9.5mm)".It says nothing abou adjacent risers.
bill.. genes solution does what you want it to do, and complies with code
both thru the entire run and step to step
course , i get easily confused.. so i could be wrongMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Let's see that confused expression again...;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
just pull out any old issue of Mad Magazine.. my expression in on the coverMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Yes, it does.I got it mixed up with some of the different schemes.Also I focused on his comment of ADJACENT risers. That is not what the code says.A stairs with say risers of 6 1/8, 6 1/4, 6 3/8, 6 1/2 would not met code.It is the difference between max and min.But in the real world I would think you could have a set of stairs with much more variation if all of the adjacaent (and I would even make every 2 risers) where small.But that isn't what the code says.
I am still within code.
Do the math and see.
Except for the top and bottom rise which can differ by 3/4"...still if this is a finished set of stairs they're either coming out, going woth Homewright's 3' x3' landing... Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Bucksnort Billy,
" Except for the top and bottom rise which can differ by 3/4".."
Is this in the UBC or the IRC? Does this mean that the top and bottom riser can differ by 3/4" from each other or that the top and bottom riser can differ by 3/4" from the other risers (not likely)
Thanks,
Regards,
Dennis
Top and bottom, IRC...other risers within a run can't vary more than 3/8". Winders are part of a run, landings end or start them...still want to know if this is a finished set of stairs...could send a bunch of these alleged easy fixes out the window<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!