I am pretty sure the best way to keep cedar shingles on the side of a house is to staple them with a 1/2 inch crown stapler(unless anyone would advise differently) but I’m more interested in any advice or brilliant tips on fastening the ones that you need to face nail, gable end triangles, or the last row etc. These would be stained so you can’t just fill and paint.
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Replies
Hand nail with decorative stainless or copper fasteners? Just a guess.
How 'bout these:
http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=1&p=40383&cat=3,41306,41327
Scott.
Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
1/2" crowns is the worst choice you can make for instaling cedars on a wall. use hand nails, a carefully set up and adjusted siding gun, or if it must be staples, use wide crown across the gap of two so one leg is in each shingle.
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I've stapled on quite a few shingles with medium crown 1-1/2" SS staples. Absolutely zero problems with them. It's a recommended method from the Cedar Bureau, and on my house and my jobs has caused no splitting, no falling off, etc. I've done it with soaking wet shingles and perfectly dry shingles. No issues that I can see.
I fasten the face nailed shingles with SS slight head siding nails and a dollop of polyurethane caulk behind the middle of the shingle. No problems there either. Very small pieces can go on with SS brads.
I staple them, too, with SS 1 1/2". The only problem with staples is if you have to get them out either with a shingle ripper or even just by pulling them off. You're going to bust up some shingles.
Galv steel isn't good enough with staples. There's not enough metal in a staple to hold enough zinc to protect them and they will corrode.
The shingle bureau advises people to avoid stapling with one leg in one shingle and one leg in the other.
Ron
Edit to add that I meant galv steel staples weren't good enough. Good galvanized steel nails will last about a century in a coastal climate.
Ron
Edited 5/8/2006 8:54 pm by ronbudgell
That's fine as long as you set the depth careful so they don't break wood fibre. The OP is talking narrow crown tho - a third of the width you have. They will punch through and the shingles won't last half as long, but they'll look twice as bad in three years time.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
My staplers are 7/16" crown, or medium crown. The OP said 1/2" crown and I assume he means what I have. The narrow crown staplers are 1/4" and I agree those are too small for shingling although I have seen guys shingle entire mansions with 1/4 x 1-1/2" staples. The Cedar Bureau says 7/16" crown minimum, 3/4" max, although I have never seen a 3/4" crown stapler. Maybe they're out there.
You're a Senco man. The OP is a paslode. I like the 7/16 too. You just have to be careful that the machine is square to the surface when you fire a staple.
Ron
I thought you siad your crowns were 1-1/2" - was that a typo?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I thought you siad your crowns were 1-1/2" - was that a typo?
I'm pretty sure he's referring to the length, Piffin.
I recently read up on this at the Cedar Bureau, and if using staples, they recommended a crown width of 7/16" to 3/4". The staples had to be either aluminum or stainless. After pricing stainless staples, I decided to keep using nails! ;)
7/16" crown x 1-1/2" length, Senco SKS45 gun
never on my jobs
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Would they fail out there? I don't know exactly what the climate is, but I bet it's colder, warmer, and wetter than here. We have mild weather, somewhat wet in the winter but a lot of dry and breezy days, rarely lower than 30 or above 70. There are millions of shingles on around here, mostly #1 red cedar 16", clear VG, everyone uses staples, and I can't remember ever seeing sidewall problems like splitting, cupping, etc. They are everyone's favorite siding and certainly about the most expensive. I hate taking them off to remodel because the staples absolutely do not give up.
Probably it is your red cedar is a bit denser than our white eastern cedar. Stapls blow through too easy
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Ahhh.... silly me, I did not realize we were talking about entirely different materials. I don't think I've ever seen white cedar. Here we have red growing all over the place and I can get Alaskan yellow cedar by order.
Piffin,
I haven't had any trouble with stapling white cedar. Quite the contrary, in fact. There must be a lot of pressure driving a staple to get it to blow through a shingle - there's a lot of material caught under that crown - much more material trapped than with a nail.
I think of stainless staples as the superior fastener. I guess I have to think of them that way to justify paying the price for them. Senco 1 1/2's are almost C$120 for a box of 3000. It isn't hard to make back the cost compared to hand fastening, though. (I know you aren't arguing against using pneumatic tools.)
Eastern cedar shingles average out smaller the western reds, too, so you spend more time fastening and use more fasteners per square.
Ron
I stapled a few cedar jobs 20 years ago. Maybe I should drive by to see if they've fallen off.
blue
Blue,
If you used stainless, they're still there.
Shingles are everlasting. I have torn shingles off and replaced them with new but only because the fasteners have rotted away - after 100 years or so. If the customer had been willing, we probably could have turned the shingles around and reinstalled most of them.
Ron
Out here on the Pacific Ocean, the wind beats them to death and they (cedar shingles) will actually wear out. Seen it wit myne own eyes.
Of course, the fasteners were rusted out, too.
Grunge on. http://grungefm.com
RRooster,
So maybe I exaggerate a bit. Nobody has ever noticed but you.
Ron
Why is there so much conflicting advice on this issue: felt vs. tyvek, nails vs. staples, cedar breather or not, staple in adjoining shingles or not.
It would be great if you guys could reach consensus on this so the DIYer knows what to do!
Here's an approach to consensus:
http://www.cedarbureau.org/installation/wall-manual.htm
Ron
Because we all have different teachers and experiences and work in different climates. And because some of us are more interested in dfoing it the best and others interested in doing it the easiest of fastest, or doing it with tools on hand instead of procuring the right toolks for the job.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>It would be great if you guys could reach consensus on this so the DIYer knows what to do!<It's a big world out there...
Jer,
Something I've discovered that I've trtied to keep to myself until now is that the number of different good ways to do a job is almost always the same as the number of good carpenters on that job site, so I discuss techniques with people - and stand ready to learn something. Maybe we'll all learn something.
Ron
Well said. The art of listening and understanding seems to wane in this age of information.
Something I've discovered that I've trtied to keep to myself until now is that the number of different good ways to do a job is almost always the same as the number of good carpenters on that job site, so I discuss techniques with people - and stand ready to learn something.
So true. Creativity is probably the best part about what we do.
Grunge on. http://grungefm.com
No staples! Use a cedar breather underneath. Use 5d - 6d galvanized box nails for blind nailing. For face nailing we normally use gal finish nails on white and stainless on red. Often you can keep the shingle a little low, place your nails right at the butt of the next row, then tap the shingle up just a little to hide the nail. Otherwise, just use the finish nails close to the butt. You don't have to fill the holes, they don't really show. If you can furr out the rake fascia, the shingles fit under and you can nail through the trim, where needed, on those triangular cuts. Keep the bellies sticking out, offset joints 1 1/4" minimum, two nails on most shingles, three on the "bed sheets" (wide ones). Do a little searching for proper installation techniques and follow manufacturers instructions.
http://www.sovebec.com/product_cedar.htm
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
You can use staples to blind nail them if you want...as long as you're going back later and face nail them using SS ring shank nails(which is the best)or double dipped galvies...I'm doing some more today actually. Dusting off the Max guns and oilin' em' up...
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