I’m in the process of building my own home & my brother is in the process of remodling his. We’ve been talking about how things are going, lessons learned, etc. We are both doing a large portion of the work ourselves.
Overall, we’ve both enjoyed the process (so far) and are toying with the idea of starting our own business. We are both good with our hands, and I have a business degree. One of the things we are unsure of is how we would get started in terms of getting the necessary licenses. I assume we’d have to obtain a license as a GC at minimum. Is this as simple as going down to the local building department & filling out an application is there a specific test we’d have to pass?
Any pointers would be helpful.
BTW, we live in New Jersey
Edited 4/4/2005 12:46 pm ET by Johnny
Replies
Hey John....really don`t mean to be a wizeazz......but one and a half houses does not a contracting firm make.
I`d suggest several years in the field before considering laying your neck on the line with such a career.
With all due respect.....thats where you need to "start".
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I understand where you are coming from & its not like we plan to up & quit our jobs to jump into this. We'd likely start out with odd jobs on the side & maybe purchase a couple of run down houses to fix up & sell.
My main question is in regards to what sort of licensing would be needed for doing this type of work. I spent my summers in college doing concrete & masonry work. We grew up on a farm & did the majority of maintainance on our buildings (roofing, siding, etc), so we know how to do the labor. We just wondered what sort of legal hurdles we'd face in order to do work on other peoples homes (or homes that are not our residence)
Johhny
At that level you don't need a license here but every state is differant! as are most cities.. Often you will be a sub contractor and use the general contractors license. Certain things won't work that way, for example here in Minnesota you can do the electrical work on your own house without a license but must have one to work on others! Just one example..
johnny ... pay no attention to jay.. he's operating in NJ and he's just apprehensive about the competition..he's always been a little insecure
you got a pick-up truck ? skill saw ? nail apron ?
you already got the business degree... come on in.. the water's fineMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Competition?....nahh....not no more.....I`m outta here!
I did my own taxes this year.....I`ll be a CPA come Christmas!
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jay.. just reading the last chapter of Chernow's " Hamilton "..
he just died..Aaron Burr shot him.....
great book.. but a little slow at the endMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I enjoyed that one as well.
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"you got a pick-up truck ? skill saw ? nail apron ?
you already got the business degree... come on in.. the water's fine"
You are killin' me! LOL. DanT
DanT - " you got a pick-up truck ? skill saw ? nail apron ?
you already got the business degree... come on in.. the water's fine"
You are killin' me! LOL. DanT "
I don't know Dan. I wouldn't laugh at that at all. It's often the business student becomes a contractor type that beats up on the tradeperson becomes a contractor type. I know a fellow who was a couple of years behind me in school who got his degree in business before becoming a contractors and he sold his business and retired from building and remodeling just few years ago before he was 50 and is now semi-retired semi-in business building boats. I just wish I was in his shoes.
Johnny might be a lot better prepared than that guy who posted here a while back: knowing when to go solo. That guy wrote in one of his posts
I actually did laugh out loud when I read that guys post. He "wasn't worried about the business end". At least Johnny has a business background. He hasn't won the battle or convinced me of anything yet but that's not a bad position to start from at all.
Nah I wouldn't be laughing at him at all. There's always that chance he could come back and be laughing at you in ten years time (if he does his homework).
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I don't know if you read the interview that Tim did with me. After my learning about real estate and basic business from a convicted drug dealer did you think I sincerely would laugh at the possibilities that anyone can make money?
It was a tongue and cheek joke. But if you feel it was offensive I apologize. I didn't realize my laughter would have such an affect! DanT
DanT - " I don't know if you read the interview that Tim did with me." I did read that topic and with all the other posts of yours I've read I was sort of surprised with what struck me as you selling Johnny a little short. We can't always judge inflection or tone in online posts so we do have to carefully construct what we write. I know I am certainly misunderstood a lot of times. I just read that post and interpreted it from the view of some third party or even Johnny and thought it came off, not as offensive but, as dismissive. Tongue in cheek jokes don't always work online even when we do use the emoticons -) with them.
I'm certainly not lecturing you, I have enough communication problems of my own to deal with, but I didn't want anybody else to think that Johnny didn't stand a good chance of making it.
....although that still does remain to be seen. A pick-up truck, skill saw, nail apron, license, and business degree still does not make anyone a successful contractor. There is a lot more to it than just that, we all know that.
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Yer gonna owe Mike reperations for killing his joke!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Nah,... I don't thinks so. Mike certainly has much better joke material than that that he can use and has used in the past.
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" I did read that topic and with all the other posts of yours I've read I was sort of surprised with what struck me as you selling Johnny a little short."
Ok, let's start over. I didn't sell anyone short. I laughed at a joke made by someone else. Nothing more nothing less. Then in a simple try at peace I apologized to you. Apperantly not good enough.
I take it back. Don't like the fact I laughed at another persons joke? So what. Get over it. You may say you are not lecturing me but you are in my mind. So now I am offended. I laughed. Ha Ha. Big deal.
I didn't dismiss anyone. I didn't say they were or were not going to make it. I laughed. So tough sh*t. DanT
girls ! .. girls ! why can't we just get along ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Yeah, I was starting to look at my back for the "kick me" sign. And it was your joke! DanT
A pick-up truck, skill saw, nail apron, license, and business degree still does not make anyone a successful contractor. There is a lot more to it than just that, we all know that.
Gotta have a dog. Big one is better. Don't get an anklebiter.
LOL
I thought it was pretty funny Mike. And ... Good luck Johnny
Y'all got something against little dogs! Just griping because my wife won't let me have a 'real' dog. Though in hindsite our little dachshound was right on the mark nipping the contractor doing an addition for us, he just judged the mans character quicker than we did.Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
I might as well throw my little boston dog in .
At the way carpenters in my area do business , I wouldnt doubt a business major could do better. I laughed at Mikes post too and could have responded just as Dan did . Christie said that one of the negatives she saw was that people in the trades didnt have confidence in busines. Shes right on when you read the threads we have and judge the negatives in the threads. Ill bet they know how to do the work though and are trying to be better or they wouldnt be here. If hes a business major trying to do all the work as he mentioned hes got a rough road . If he uses his book learning and some more books , hes got a more than decent chance .
But what Mike said WAS funny. Now weve slaughtered a good clean joke . <G>
Timothy
I thought the joke was kinda funny myself.
The problem with the joke, isn't the joke itself, but the fact that it's kind of an inside joke; one that the "regulars" would understand, but also one that really isn't that helpful to the original poster.
The original poster came in here and was sincerely asking for advice about starting up a business. He kinda reminds me of a young 18 year old kid walking up to a jobsite and exhuberantly asking for help to become a carpenter. When the kid comes up, we can treat him two ways; respect his ambitions, or ridicule him because he doesn't know what it takes to be a carpenter.
This poster tossed his hat into the ring. He didn't try to embellish his experience and offered the little amount of expertise that he had for us to evaluate. Mike chose to toss a little jab out, but never followed up with any useful advice. That's unlike Mike, except when he's short on time. Obviously he's up to his neck in the Pol threads and he just decided to throw a little humor and mosey along.
I want to say that I admire this poster for starting the education process to properly start a business. I think he mentioned that the business idea is for the future and that he was going to investigate the proper licensing and maybe entertain the idea of doing a real estate rehab. I gotta say, I think this is a proper course of action. He's thinking about doing things right. He's thinking about working on an empty rehab house, making the mistakes in a way that won't affect a current homeowner. He's in a professional (sic) site asking professionals about business things. I can't find anything wrong with his approach. It's obvious that his business training is paying off!
My advice is to write a comprehensive business plan. When that's done, I think he will quickly surpass 90% of the guys in here, even thought they may have 500% more experience!
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
jokes on you !..
all i had was the pickup truck , skill saw & dog..
not even the business degree..
lost the dog....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
From the sound of things I'm way ahead of the game because I have a truck, skil saw, apron & TWO dogs.
So John , tell me straight up,
whats your opinion of the responses?
Tim
http://www.contractors-license.org/ was exactly what I was looking for in terms of license requirements. I originally asked at the local construction office & they knew I needed to have a state license, but didn't have a clue as to how to get one.
Anyway, all the responses were helpful. I'll be doing plenty of reading for a while. It's not like were up & quitting our day jobs tomorrow, taking out an add & waiting for people to call us. We're going to spend plenty of tim putting a plan together & like I said before start out buying an old house or two to fix up & sell.
We're going to spend plenty of tim putting a plan together & like I said before start out buying an old house or two to fix up & sell
Johnny, I'd like to point out that rehabbing old houses and remodeling houses and building new houses are three different types of business. The only common thread is that there is construction involved. Being good at one might not equivocate to being good at the others.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
You can't forget one of the most important things, people skills. Unless you plan to spend the rest of your life building spec houses, you need to be able to communicate succesfully with people. As far as this guy and his thing goes, it sounds like he's better off than most of us. If he can afford to run a small contracting business on the side it sounds like he must already be pretty well established elsewhere in life. Hopefully it works out, if he has a good presence, good eye for design, and can manage people, and we know he has the business training, he'll probably do great. More power to him.
blue_eyed_devil - " ...
The problem with the joke, isn't the joke itself, but the fact that it's kind of an inside joke; one that the "regulars" would understand, but also one that really isn't that helpful to the original poster.
" My point exactly. The guy (Johnny) is just starting out here (5 posts) and he's got to decipher what's joking between friends and what's real worthwhile commentary. We all sometimes seem more concerned with being clever and witty with our friends here than answering peoples questions with some real information.
Mike I'm getting a new dog, my third one, maybe sometime this week or next. I drive a Mecedes E type, my prefered circular saw is a Festool, and I plan to go back to school again oneday for a MBA.
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jerrald.... yur sounding a little preachy this morning... is that some a dat yankee arrogance ?
my advice to johnny was exactly what i felt... he's got what it takes..
he's got more than what most of us had when he started out..
it ain't gonna be easy and he's got a lot to learn.. so his question was .. should he become a builder ?
answer is not ... read a lot of books, get working capital, make sure your wife is on board, develop a business plan.. those things go without saying..
the answer is... take his business degree, grab his dog, his skill saw and nail apron, jump in the truck and come on in
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Yea - I thought the saying was "a skill saw, a pickup truck, and a dog..."
You might be on to something there though... If I had a dog with me to judge potential customer's character and intentions while giving free estimates maybe I wouldn't have failed in my brief solo career... :-) Or at least all my free estimates could have been limited to drive time plus 30 seconds... Ankle biter might have been better though. I don't think our love everybody big sloppy kisses in the face lab would have gone over too well... Our Shepard-mix with small man's syndrome would have been even worse :-) (he weighs 80#s).
Seriously though, as it turned out, being a good knowledgeable conscientious craftsmen, a love for the work, and strong work ethic all ended up being rather secondary. Maybe if I had more patients and had the people skills that Sunny mentioned... Going into it I never thought being a salesmen would be a significant part of the equation, but it was... and I suck at that. And I hated the paperwork part of it... Matt
Jay - why not be a good guy and answer the man's question with more of an objective viewpoint? We know you got it in ya... :-) You are in his neck of the woods so you know the answer to the licensing part... Matt
I thought I did.
Get some time in the trades....serious time....not, "I`m building my own house while my brother adds on to his."
The way guys around here are making it sound is as if because he`s got a degree, things should go swimmingly.
I`m not as willing as many here to accept that all one needs is an education and anyone can do it. I believe thats part of the reason contractors on the whole aren`t taken terribly seriously.
Its not merely an understanding of business that one needs to suceed in the trades....its "the" business one must understand.
I`m being honest with the guy...not glad handing him.
You guys keep pumping his ego......I`ll knock him down a notch or two and keep his feet on the ground. If he does eventually make the move into contracting, I`m betting he`s more grateful for the advice I`ve supplied him. Whether he fails or succeeds.
FWIW....I`m not in NJ....I`m in NY.....I`m not at all familiar with what is required as far as liscensing goes around his neck-of-the-woods.
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You don't have to defend yourself. I didn't take any offense to your statements. I know that the construction business (like any business) isn't for the faint of heart. I don't expect to just walz into it & everything will be fine. My main interest right now was in the licensing aspect of it (since a NJ license is required to do any work anywhere other than your own home in which you reside).
If we want to buy property to fix up & rent or sell, we'd have to either hire a licensed contractor or get a license ourselves.
Johnny- Your comment that if you buy something, you'll have to hire someone doesn't accord with my understanding (in NY). Once you buy it, it's in your name and you own it. Then you should be free to work on your own house, with maybe some restrictions - i.e. you may need a license to (legally) do plumbing and/or electric work. If you're looking at working on OTHER PEOPLE'S houses, that's when you need the license/insurance, etc.
As an aside, where you are working for other people, if the local communities requires a license, don't forget to get it too. Here, it seems like every local town,village and county is reaching in your pocket for their fees. To make matters worse, I've seen lotsa times when contractors were thrown out of court and denied their money because they didn't have their license. One guy lost about 35K, and his business never recovered. He had a county license, but not a town license so was SOL when it came time to collect.
Don
Oh - ok, for some reason I thought you were in NJ...
And I agree whole heartidly about the expierence is everything stuff... Matt
I'm kinda on your side.... I just worked 12 hours on site and came home and spent two hours crunching a set of plans into a number for my next job. I'm dirty, my feet stink, I shot myself today, and got a 1" splinter that broke off in my palm and took about 45 minutes to dig out with my utility knife. Then I got a nose bleed for some reason on the ride home. I just inhaled two Wendy's cheeseburgers and I'm going to bed so I can do it all over again tomorrow. I'm too tired to shower, but I don't wanna get kicked out of bed so I guess I gotta.
How's your business degree doing?
Jump in. The water's warm.
12 hrs.?
Slacker.
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Today was our first real "spring" day this year. Finally got a solid day of 60 degrees.
12 hours.... yeah, we're just gettin' warmed up.
Sox/Yankees on the radio makes it a bit easier to hang. I feel old.... going to bed.
I hear talk of 68 degrees tomorrow....don`t kill yourself....work will be there when you wake up!
Sleep well.
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New Home Builders State of New Jersey Department of Community Affairs Division of Codes and Standards/Builders Registration Bureau of Homeowner Protection New Home Warranty Program 101 South Broad Street Trenton, New Jersey 08608 Post Office Box 805 Trenton, New Jersey 08625-0805 (609) 530-8800; Fax (609) 530-8801
Any time you want information like that , its listed as > your state , contractors licensing board. Theres a bunch of hits off of it but that is the main office. It doesnt look like there is a license . Said there wasnt even a commercial license. You may be required to give a home warranty it looks like.
Call them and they will tell ya .
Tim Mooney
As I understand it: licenses are required of electricians, plumbers and remodelers. I see no further requirements for carpenters, roofers, bricklayers, etc. New laws/regs have been discussed recently for builders in NJ. But nothing is currently on the books. Biz is booming here in NJ and good trade workers are fully employed! Hope it stays that way for a while.
What little I read is what it sounded like to me .
That will probably change since you are booming .
Its pretty much about state revenue when the suits go looking for dollars.
I was a building inspector this last year and got the opportunity to deal with the contractors licenseing board . Everyone in this state is required to be liscensed to build and its quite a bit of money. They do enforce it in areas that have a lot of population. They told me stories of hitting 8 jobs or more a day and levying fines . Their fines were over a million dollars with only 4 working the state. Every contractor pays a license fee each year in addition. Its quite a money making operation. What I found is that they were not interrested in my town of 8,000 which is 100 miles away from their home office in Little Rock. I am lisensed myself and I think its pretty much a joke other than their revenue . We have trade licenses now also. They dont deal with anyting but being licensed . No building codes as that gets expensive. You can be thankful NJ doesnt require it.
Tim Mooney
According to contractor-license.org (which I found thanks to a poster to this thread), licenses are now required in NJ for all work. It is a $200 bi-annual fee for new homebuilders & a $90 annual fee for remodlers.
Basically the only requirements to get approved for a license (accoring to the NJ state attornye general's web site) is that you've never been convicted of fraud.
...and proof of workman's comp. Sounds like CA, I think.
Big Bob,
Don't know if anyone mentioned it here but all trade related businesses must register with that state. I forget what the deadline is but after that day anyone from sole proprietor to 100 man company without a registration faces a huge fine. No test, just cut the state a check.
Thanks for the heads up!! We have to get our stuff in by 12/ 31/05. Another departing gift from our wonderful ex-chief: McGReevy. Thanks for letting me know..I woulda missed it.
BB
It may have gotten more complicated (I think now that home improvement contractors have to register with the state), but when I was builder in NJ, all you had to do was register with the Dept. of Community Affairs. Cost $200 bi-annually, and you couldn't ever have been convicted of consumer fraud.
Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
Thanks all for your input. Much obliged.
One thing I don't understand is why new home builders register with the department of community affairs & home improvement contracters register with the attorney general.
Not a big deal since I found the applications for both on their respective sites, just thought that was curious.
Edited 4/4/2005 2:54 pm ET by Johnny
Ask them when you call them and tell us why.
Good question.
Tim Mooney
Johnny check out this page New Jersey from the Contractor's License Reference Site (http://www.contractors-license.org). If Bob Kovacs ever pops his head in her again he might be able to throw you some more information your way too since he lives in New Jersey and probably consults with a lot of contractors there.
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So you're enjoying the fun end of the trade. Good for you. There's a great wealth of knowledge to be found here for anyone who cares.
Theres also a great wealth of knowledge you need to accumulate before striking out. If you think you are ready then go for it. It doesnt sound to me as if you have the experience but everyone has to make that determination for themselves.
I know a couple of guys that went into the contracting business for themselves with very little experience. One is washing cars now and the other (now bankrupt) is is still trying to learn the trade working for another contractor
The first guy brought nothing to the table, so he failed. the second guy was smart enough to catch on fast but lacked any business savy. He might have made it with your business degree
IMO Ingredients for success in business; capital, business sense, intimate knowledge of the trade in question, ability to think on your feet and a work ethic.
I agree-come on in the water is fine.
I am much more comfortable setting someone up who asks plenty of questions and has a background in business and experience in sales than a struggling carpenter-looking for a majic bullet.
Someone with prudent judgement and resolve enough to get a business degree prior to striking out in business just may have the right genetic makeup to make it big in this biz.
Good Luck Johnny.
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Johnny,
This is a little off track but you should know about it anyway. N.J. recently passed the Highlands preservation act. What it does is put a whole bunch of land on the western side of the state off limits.
A lot of projects in those areas were grandfathered in before it passed.
Might want to plan for that. Depending on where you are you may see a huge jump in demand for reputable remodeling/renovation contractors. Or, you may see about 7 bazzillion undocumented aliens all competing for the same bathroom remodel know that they have no more new work.
Might want to consider that in your marketing or business plan.