I have a 4 unit apartment building with a 2 pipe steam heating system. I find th idea of a steam boiler running on a timer a very weird way of controling the heating system. Is this really the normal way to run a steam heat system?
I’ve been told that converting it to hot water could lower my gas bill.
Is this a good move? What is needed to make the conversion?
Are there other / better forums to research this question?
Replies
bump
converting to hot water, you would at least have to replace all of the radiators, no?
I think on a two pipe steam system converting to hot water is not too bad, just plugging the vents with the type for hot water.
heatinghelp.com has a great forum, "on the wall"
http://www.heatinghelp.com/
Of coure, I am a big fan of steam heat over any other type. I would put a thermostat in a central location, then some snazzy thermostatic vents on the radiator. i have a two unit house with that set-up, and its toasty.
What brand type model number of thermostatic valving do you use? Are your's a 2 pipe system or a 1 pipe.
My 2 pipe system has no venting. Just a On / Off valve so I need a vent to release trapped air at each rad. An expansion tank and circulating pump added to the system should do it but I'm not sure if it is the way to go.
I'll checkout the "the wall" I've some experience with hot water systems but this is my first steamer.
My heating guy got them online, I am not sure of the brand (europeon?)
But you are right, I think they are only for a one pipe system, which I have. I also only had them pu on a few rooms that got too hot.I looked long and hard for guys that knew there steam when I replaced my boiler. Its a speciality for those guys.
How old is your system? If it has any age on it you are wasting money. Need more info.
The system is old. 1920's. The boiler is 1988 and should convert to hot water without too much problem.
1988 for a boiler is not too bad, you can live with it for a while. The other posts are close to what you need, air vents for each radiator for water, expansion tank, thermostatic valves on radiators. The major problem that I see is trying to control heat to four units unless they are piped in as separate units. If your system is piped as one entity that could be an extreme problem. I think that you should get someone from your area to look over the system and learn what your options are. Lots of luck.
If the current steam system is working well and your only concern is efficiency, I would not bother. I have never heard of a steam system on a timer instead of a thermostat, but if it works I would leave it alone as well. If you have one boiler servicing four units, then I expect that each unit is not piped seperately. Since you have a two pipe system it may be tempting to just keep the existing piping in place and force hot water through them. However, you are going to have a lot of water in your system with the large steam pipes traveling all over. You will never get enough hYou will have tons of rust and sediment traveling through the system under pressure. If you want hot water you will be best off tearing everything out and starting over.
IIRC, the amount of heat available from hot water, is considerably less that from an equivilent amount of steam, so you might not be able to get enough heat out of the existing radiators, something to keep in mind....
I guess that I'm missing something on the post. Changing steam to hot water is a no-brainer, its done all the time. I see a problem with making four units happy with temperature control.
I am heavily influenced by the "steamheads" over at heating help, but I am not sold on the idea thats it is a no-brainer. The whole system (pipes, rad, and boiler) was designed for steam. The book EDR (Every Damn Radiator) holds the specs for different rad and what the BTU's are for steam and hot water.I think the no-brainer switching is due to some lack of knowledge and bad experiences with steam systems, which may or may not be solved with a new hot water system, but may be better solved with an experienced steam man installing a new systemjust my limited experience, by no means an expert
Maybe I should not have used the term, no-brainer, should have used the term common. I agree that steam is the best around but installations are more costly then other heat media. I still think that it is a control problem that causes the cost to go beyond what the original post thought was reasonable. If you have four units you are going to have some that say it is too hot and some that say it is too cold. Controling hot water is usulally less costly then controlling steam. I did suggest that the original post get a local professional to look at his system and see what he thinks. I'm done.
"Changing steam to hot water is a no-brainer, its done all the time..."
I agree that most changes from steam to water are done, less a brain. A great deal of the problem systems that I have been asked to investigate with a confused contractor over the years are "no-brainer" change-over systems.
IMO, unless the system is so old that the piping is compromised, keeping the system as a steam system is the wisest option.
I guess that you missed my last post on the subject. I change no-brainer to common. The original post was concerned with temp. control and cost, I never advocated change to hot water, all I was saying was that its not that much of a problem. I am pro steam, but I try to deal with the posters problem. [if we had steam cars, we wouldn't be looking at $3.00 a gal. for gas!]. May the force be with you.
I caught the second post and I believe that both "common" AND "no brainer" apply (as I used it). I am neither pro-steam nor pro-hot water. I am very much opposed to "simple" conversions that replace only a minimal amount of components and then run hot water through a system designed and sized for steam. Given the general unfamiliarity in the industry with steam heating systems replacing an old steam system with a properly done hot water system is not necessarily a bad option. Water systems are very forgiving of a poor layout, installation and maintenance. This is why the "no brain(er)" approach is usually effective enough that it works OK and is performed on a common basis.
And, BTW, the original post had no question about temperature control. He did mention a setback (refered to it as a timer).
Edited 8/25/2005 11:05 am ET by Tim
" ...a steam boiler running on a timer... Is this really the normal way to run a steam heat system? "
Yes and no. It is a common practice in commercial buildings and schools where occupied and unoccuppied times are consistant and follow a set schedule.
"I've been told that converting it to hot water could lower my gas bill."
No, it will not. If your boiler is very inefficient, upgrading it to a more efficient model will and other standard energy conservation measures will, but simply changing from steam to water will not.
"Is this a good move?"
No.