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steel door frame

Light | Posted in Construction Techniques on May 11, 2005 03:15am

Hi,
I’m building a contemporary house and wanted to use steel door frames with wood doors in the interior of the house. I never used steel frames before except on exterior steel doors. Can anyone explain the pros and cons of knock down versus welded frames? I’m not clear on how to install the welded frame, it seems to need a very large RO. Do you use a special clip to attach it to the wood studs? The KD frames seem easier, but I’m concerned that the mitred corners on the KD wont look good enough. Also, are the welded frames ground smooth and nice, or can you see the weld bead? Maybe some of you commercial guys could help out a dumb designer/builder like me. thanks

David
Light House Design

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Replies

  1. dfc | May 11, 2005 03:33am | #1

    Hi Light;

    The welded frames are most use as a pre-install before the drywall goes up. They are usually 1" wider than a 2 x 4 or 4 1/2" measured on the inside.  You install them with clips that nail to the studs and the drywall slides in behind the flange after.  The weld beads are not a problem.  The kd frames are installed mostly after drywall is up and finished, but some are made for pre-drywall installed depending on the type.

  2. gdavis62 | May 11, 2005 04:01am | #2

    Get a complete catalog from Timely.  They make a complete line of frames.  KD, welded, prefinished, snap-on casings, all the possible permutations and combinations.

    Their catalog will tell you everything you need to know, and permit you to specify out your job.

    1. Light | May 11, 2005 04:21am | #3

      Thanks Gene,
      I did look at the timely site prior to posting, and saw that they had a wood stud clip, which is I guess what I need. But do you have an opinion about the appearance of the kd frame vs welded? Or whether the welded frame is a significant hassle for the blue board and plaster crew?David

      1. BobKovacs | May 11, 2005 01:44pm | #4

        The obvious difference in appearance is the seams at the corners of a KD frame- with a welded frame, it looks like a continuous unit.  The welded frames shouldn't be an issue for the plasterers, but KD frames do tend to knick and scratch the finish on the walls if you're not careful during the installation.  Also, make sure you take into account the thickness of the plaster finishes when you order the frames, other wise the throats will be too narrow.

        Bob

  3. BKCBUILDER | May 12, 2005 01:27am | #5

     Are you going to use 1-3/4" interior doors?

    I've hung hundreds of doors on the KD frames, have welded some after install and did a quick grind job to them prior to paint. I don't like the prewelded jambs much, they rarely stay where you put them.

     Good frames have adjustment set screws under the hinges...nice!

     Get pusher frames(push feet on the legs 6" down from head) to wedge it in the opening, stud clips on the bottoms. Double at least, triple is better the studs on each side of the door.

    Learn the tricks, go commercial carpenter and double your income!  Keith

    1. gdavis62 | May 12, 2005 01:43am | #6

      Keith, have you worked residential?  If so, start a new thread . . . it ought to be interesting . . . on the mindsets, mentalities, and making the transition, going one way, or the other.

      I spent a long time in commercial and industrial.  Not in the trades, but as a suit, although a pretty low-level grunt at the start.  I was amazed at how different residential was, when first getting in.

      Ever deal with frames from a biz called HMF, out of Wilmington, NC?  They are a small shop, doing biz in the south and southwest.  Their specialty is quick-ship specials, you know, the frames the new prison wing needs for its remodeling next week, that you-know-who is quoting a 20-week lead on.  HMF was one of our companies when I was in business.

    2. Light | May 12, 2005 02:34am | #7

      Keith,
      thanks for replyling. I'm going to have to use the kd frames cause I already framed a bunch of openings 2" larger than the door size, so the welded frames won't fit. A guy on my crew says he could weld them and grind them pretty fast, sounds like you think that might work. There's 40 doors, so that makes 160 welds (both sides). You think it's doable in a couple days? Will it come out as nice as the pre-welded? (I guess that's up to my welder). Also, what brand do you like? the doors are all 1 3/8".David

      1. BKCBUILDER | May 12, 2005 03:23am | #8

         I can't recall ever hanging a 1-3/8" in a commercial metal frame, I think they make them, but I've never seen one. 

        The welding will go fast and should give great results. Any pinholes or scratches from the sanding disc can be filled with bondo or scratch filler and be good to go. Make sure you cut a piece of sheet metal to slip behind the corner when welding, saves the bb burns from sheetrock surface.

        I like W-H frames, Republics are OK.

        Make sure you check when you order the frames as to what kind of strike mortise they have, you could get stuck using commercial locksets and hinges...plenty spendy!  Keith

        1. Light | May 12, 2005 04:24am | #9

          thanks much for the tips- I probably wouldn't have thought to ask about the strikes.David

  4. ponytl | May 12, 2005 06:00am | #10

    you can still use the welded frame even if you have already framed.. we do it all the time.. install the frames After you drywall... treat the openings as drywall cased openings... get em square and sized right... set your frames in the finished openings, screw em in place use'n the holes provided caulk the edges and ur done...

    pony

    btw i don't like knock down frames... but if u have to u have to

     

  5. Dylan | May 12, 2005 09:13am | #11

    As a commercial carpenter I have installed literally over a thousand welded hollow steel frames, for both doors and windows.  I would not even consider using the KD frame in place of the welded frame.  Installation is a peice of cake, all of the frames I have installed had two light gauge steel spacers tack welded to the bottom of the frame, spanning the interior width.  This means the frame will remain square until you have it installed.  When you install it you should have the appropriate clip for your framing material, and I recomend placing three clips on each side of the frame.  It should be installed whule you are framing the wall, and if you make sure the frame is level and plumb in all directions, as well as maintaining the proper spacing between the frame and the studs, to allow the board to be slid in behind the frame, you should have a door that swings well, a frame that will look great for years, and a solid, great looking wall around it.  Once the blue board is in, you can use a chisel to break the spot weld on the struts and remove them.  The thing to watch for is to, measure the width that you will need on the throat of the frame twice, and order once.  That's just my thought's on the matter though.

    1. dfc | May 22, 2005 05:07am | #12

      I agree with you, except I take the steel spacers at the bottom off so that I can grind the little weld imperfections off.   To keep the space equal I make a accurate plywood spacer of the profile of the jam that I can use over and over for all the doors to be installed.  Also you can slid the spacer up as you go to keep the door space equal to where you are placing the clips. Also, I never forget to place a framing square against the hinge side jam and the head jam to insure that I have that square.  I also use a plywood 6'6" straight edge along the hinge jam to insure that it is not bowed.

      It sounds like a lot but once you get set-up and going I can knock three or four doors a hour.

       

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