Replies

1. 
   dtaylor137 | Mar 30, 2003 07:57am | #1

   The problem with steel beams is that6 they fail rapidly when heated. If this beam is a major player protect it from fire or the place won't be standing after five minutes.

1. 
   akjim | Mar 30, 2003 09:00pm | #2

   I am somewhat confused. Do not understand how a steel beam would "fail" in a fire. This beam is a W14 by 53. Looks like it would take tremendous heat to have any effect.

1. 
   jonblakemore | Mar 30, 2003 09:05pm | #3

   The fact is that steel does not have the ability to retain strength under heat that wood does.

   What does the code/inspector say?

   Jon Blakemore

2. 
   artacoma | Mar 30, 2003 10:30pm | #4

   Occasionally we will put in a steel beam to span a garage and every time we have to double 5/8 drywall it for fire protection .It's true a steel beam will fail much faster than wood beam in a fire even though the steel might not actually burn . Rik

3. 
   BungalowJeff | Mar 31, 2003 06:40am | #6

   Lumber, chars and cuts off fire. Large timbers will snuff out a flame with a protective char coat that cuts off the combustibles. A car fire is plenty to cause a steel beam to deform and induce localized plastic conditions. ...that's not a mistake, it's rustic

2. 
   Zano | Mar 31, 2003 01:50am | #5

   Yes, you need to double up on the 5/8" Firecode Type "X" - that's code here where I am.  That's why the World Trade Centers went down - only need  I think about 800 degrees fahrenheit and you loose 50% of the strength of the steel beam and then down she goes.

3. 
   MisterT | Mar 31, 2003 01:37pm | #7

   Tell me you didn't install this beam in the H position!!

   They are called I beams for a reason!

   Mr T

   Do not try this at home!

   I am an Experienced Professional!

1. 
   Mooney | Mar 31, 2003 03:24pm | #8

   "Tell me you didn't install this beam in the H position!!

   They are called I beams for a reason!"

   Not only would the inspector have fun with that one the insurace company would love it .

   We are sorry , you need to enter into a class action law suit with the builder/owner. Oh,..thats you  huh? Well, the tennants family lawyer will be in touch and also your mortgager. Have a nice day.

   Tim Mooney

2. 
   pm22 | Apr 03, 2003 08:30am | #14

   This idea of installing an I beam in an H fashion [H = Horizontal?] is fascinating. Wouldn't it actually be stiffer since it would have two flanges resisting the gravity deflection rather than one web?

   Are there any engineers out there? Is an H beam stronger in the web direction or the flange direction?

   ~Peter

   Mr. T-- what happened to the "I am a trained professional bit"?

1. 
   diddidit | Apr 03, 2003 11:39am | #15

   Much, much stronger in the "I" orientation, as opposed to the "H" orientation. Let's see, Machinery's Handbook, W14x53 beam...roughly 5 1/2 times stronger.

   Shame about not being able to keep that sucker exposed - a garage crane would be slick.

   Hey, what kind of safety factor is used when applying steel beams to home construction? We did 5:1 in the crane+hoist industry, and thus had some truly monstrous beams - W36 wasn't uncommon at all.

   didI opened the box, and the first thing I pulled out was - well, ya know, it's just surreal being me right now...

2. 
   MisterT | Apr 03, 2003 02:27pm | #16

   I have an engineering degree and I is the proper orientation.

   Has to do with the section modulus of the a given cross section

   Basically the more area of a cross section that is farther away from the neutral axis in the driection of load/deflection vector, the greater the strength.

   The I beam does this by putting most of the x/section on the top and bottom.

   The web connects the two flanges so they can act as a single cross section.

   Would you rather have an experienced or trained professional working on your house?Mr T

   Do not try this at home!

   I am an Experienced Professional!

1. 
   pm22 | Apr 04, 2003 07:20am | #19

   I was thinking that way but also the idea that the two vertical flanges of the H arrangement would have more deflection resistance the the single flange [web] of the I arrangement. I just wanted to get some clarification.

   ~Peter

4. 
   ronbudgell | Mar 31, 2003 04:10pm | #9

   And, while on the subject, what's the best way to put the drywall on a steel beam?

   I've done it a dozen different ways, including shooting 2 x 4's onto the steel, hanging them on with bent nails, wiring the first layer of drywall on with sheet steel corners and then screwing the top layer to the corners, casing the whole beam in plywood. What are the best and quickest ways?

   Ron

1. 
   JohnFinn | Mar 31, 2003 04:19pm | #10

   Another alternative to furring and finishing the I beam is to spray it. It doesn't look as nice, but if you're not concerned about the look it may be a solution for you.

2. 
   Mooney | Mar 31, 2003 04:22pm | #11

   Depends on how you are rigged on tools . Metal studs are fast is you have a ramset . 

   Tim Mooney

1. 
   Foureagles | Mar 31, 2003 07:56pm | #12

   Yeah, the most efficient means of fire-protecting a steel beam is to spray it.  Too bad you lose that lovely existing clean surface for a motor trolley and such, but that's life in our silly Newtonian approximation of a world.  To acheive a recognizably fire-strong structure, AND get the tool beam, you pretty much have to add one under it that isn't charged with structure support duties -- a shame.  Maybe someone will eventually come up with a paint that gets steel to act more like heavy wood in a fire.  I ain't holdin' me breath.

   As far as drywalling a steel beam, I've typically drilled little-bitty holes and attached pre-drilled 1x or 2x nailers with self-tapping screws.  Either that, or add self-supporting divorced blocking hung from surrounding wood.  Any glue that sticks to wood doesn't seem to give a lasting grip on clean steel.

   {{{{

3. 
   Zano | Apr 03, 2003 04:22am | #13

   There are clips that attach to the I-Beam and then you screw the sheetrock onto them - very fast and cheap and meets code.  Go to http://www.grabber.com  or is it http://www.grabberman.com and look them up.  No need for wood or steel stud furring.

   Edited 4/2/2003 9:58:15 PM ET by Zano

1. 
   ronbudgell | Apr 04, 2003 03:36am | #17

   Zano!

   Thanks!. Now I remember why I come here.

   Ron

1. 
   BungalowJeff | Apr 04, 2003 06:05am | #18

   Diddidit,

   Typically, a beam in bending uses a maximum allowable bending stress of 66% of the yield stress (36,000 psi for A36 steel). The crane and hoist industry would size beams like other metal items, like lifting hooks, chains, cables, etc. using a 5:1 safety factor applied to the ultimate stress (about 58,000 psi for A36).

   ...that's not a mistake, it's rustic

   Edited 4/3/2003 11:08:23 PM ET by Bungalow Jeff

1. 
   diddidit | Apr 04, 2003 08:09am | #20

   Actually, we always used 60ksi for A36 - makes the math a skoosh easier. Given how cheap it was to throw more steel at something that was marginal, we were rarely close to 20% of ultimate. It wasn't unusual for marketing to ask for more steel when something didn't "look" beefy enough! We stocked 6" plate...

   did

   I opened the box, and the first thing I pulled out was - well, ya know, it's just surreal being me right now...

2. 
   CapnMac | Apr 04, 2003 06:18pm | #21

   Crane & lift have the same considerations that are found in Naval practice--any time you are lifting things over the heads of working people, you want plenty of safety.

   The beam can be exposed if you add a fire sprinkler system (in most jurisdictions).

   I might have buried the beam into the structure, then had a separate beam for a hoist (the hoist beam does not need fire protection, per se).

3. 
   BungalowJeff | Apr 05, 2003 10:11am | #23

   That's how I have detailed hoistways in ventilation plants and other facilities that require concrete fire protection for the structural framing. I have also had a contractor use the actual 48 ksi yield strength listed on the mill certificates to come up with some fancy temporary support conditions with the permanent steel.

   Achieving higher steel stengths is cheaper now due to better chemistry and recylcling. For most sections 50ksi steel costs about the same as 36ksi steel. Some mills were just rolling 50ksi and supplying it for any order to save on stocking. The Northridge earthquake ended that practice to some extent, because members designed to yield during an earhquake did not work properly due to the unanticipated extra strength.

   I-beam is an outdated term from the early steel and iron days. Modern structural beams are called wide flanged (hence the W in W36x300) because the modern rolling techniques allow for a wider flange section, much more than an "I" shape (I hope everyone has their browser set to times new roman).

   H-piles get their designation from the depth to width ratio preferred for piles gives more of an "H" than an "I" shape.

   ...that's not a mistake, it's rustic

5. 
   CDN_Builder | Apr 05, 2003 12:07am | #22

   From what I've seen H-Beams are mostly used as piles.