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The new catch phrase is “stepping out of the box”. How many are embracing that idea?
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I'm going for it...hook, line and sinker. Lately, I've found myself jumping into things I never dreamed possible.
Last night, I stepped up to an overhead projector and accepted the responsibilty of making a public presentation of our product. Thankfully, there were only about 15 people in attendance.
I started out horrible. I was forced to collect my wits and continue. I ended fine, with passion and dignity. I was comfortable.
I am thankful for that opportunity. It is the pre-requisite for my speech that I will deliver to more than 10,000 people in an upcoming convention. I look forward to this exciting moment!
Stan, this is another step in my journey....
blue
*Making presentations in front of a crowd is something that had always excited and terrified me all through college. However the terrifying part has drastically subsided since my stint as a high school substitute teacher during a slow period a couple years back. Hey Blue since you're on a different track now, do you have any real estate programs you would like to part with? :-)Scott R.
*Blue,I stepped out of the box once into a big pile of $#^! Haven't left it since...Mike
*Blue,I've never seen this box.Is this the same as pushing the envelope?Going the extra mile?110%?Being on the cutting edge?Thinking ahead?Looking at tomorrow today?Playing with a full deck?I guess I'm just too irreverent to have ever been invited into the box.Sorry man.....go get 'em.Do what you gotta do.Have it your way.Be your own man.March to the beat of a different drummer.Think on your feet.Give it the old heave ho.Just do it.I'm not really an ass, but sometimes I play one on TV.I really do respect the fact that your giving it your best shot to make the improvments in your life that you desire. I wish you well.The box and it's walls are just the limits of your imagination. Just imagine that there is no box.Then the world will be your oyster. (Jeez.....so many catch phrases.....so little time.)Regards,Ed.
*>Just imagine that there is no box. If you judge success from within the "stuff I got with the money I made" box.....you just jumped into a different box.To have no box would be total freedom...to be all that you can be. Success may then play to a different tune.Some carpenters deem themselves a success because they have the necessary skills to make enough money for themselves ...to stay out of anybody elses box.
*You guys are cute.How many are willing to do something that they ordinarily wouldn't feel comfortable doing?For instance Ed, maybe you could send out Valentine Day cards to all your customers. Or maybe your vendors. Or maybe your employees, or their kids.Stepping out of the box does not mean leaving your carpentry business. It means venturing into something different, that you might otherwise have overlooked.If ANYONE has recently stepped out of the box, please chirp in and tell us about your experienc(s).blue
*Mike once suggested something that would have been stepping out of the box for me. He suggested that I hire a professional marketing firm to design a comprehensive marketing plan and theme for my Carpentry contracting business. I didn't take his advice, but think I would now, if I had any intention of staying in the business (I don't).Stepping out of the box could mean a lot of things for me....I'm as stubborn of an old mule as anyone in here.....blue
*Maybe a different "stepping out of the box" idea might be walking up to the jobsite with $50 bills in your hand and giving them out to everyone, thanking them for being there.....I think I just might do that the next time I start a new job.....blue
*Blue, Have you been drinkin grandpas cough medicine again?
*Hehehe. Carl, I meant..give the bucks to the employees!blue
*Ok,Blue----ya got the rest of these weiners afraid to step up to the plate---but I'm going yard on ya.I'm digging in and sending it straight out over the center field fence.........what's totally out of the box for me is probably business as usuall for a lot of guys.I will fess up----I don't really like meeting or dealing with customers----so I tend to avoid them. A perfect job for me is one where I manage to never lay eyes on the customer. Believe it or not,I am fairly successfull at making that happen.Luckily I realize that it is actually easier to sell to a prospect if I actually meet them.the "Old Stephen" closed last year about 1/3 of the whole house roof estimates I wrote and about 50% of the repair estimates.A few weeks ago I realized that If I could up my closing ratio on whole house roofs from .333 to .500 thereby matching my repair ratio -----I would be totally sold out of available production time. Remember,I am basically a lazy guy,but I figured that by doing a better job of selling to THE SAME NUMBER of prospective customers I would be swamped with work.I figured that actually meeting the !@#$%^&* prospective customerrs would be a reasonable start to upping my batting average to .500.So a couple of weeks ago at a roofing seminar I heard a good idea.The main speaker was talking about effective communication. She asked us to think about the impression we make when we first meet a person---not only body language and appearance,but the actual words exchanged.----the typical prospect will throw out a generic "Hi,how are you"And the old stephen would typically respond" pretty fair,pretty fair"(After all,things could always be worse or they could always be better,right? whats left---fair)The seminar speaker suggested that EVERYONE think of a new way of handling that opening exchange---something different than their accustomed stock answer.So,---this is where old Stevo gets bold......I decided that from now on when I meet a prospect and they say " Hi,how are you", I will respond by smiling and saying" Outstanding, just couldn't be better"what a laugh----but you know what? it really changes the whole tone of the meeting.The customer is shocked into asking" Really?---Outstanding?" If the weather is nice I just follow up with " yes, I can't believe how nice the weather is( 68* and not a cloud in the sky)----If the weather sucks , Or I am tired from work I just say"I am tired,but I am having a really productive day. How can I help YOU?"now you can laugh( I know I am) but it has really changed my sales productivity.In the last 2 weeks I have given 9 whole house roofing presentations with the new method.5 definite sales(within a day of presentation),1 definite NO and 3 who haven't responded yet. Out of the 3 stragglers I feel 50/50 each about 2 of them---I think at least one of them will buy.I am kind of embarrased at how dumb all this sounds----but I am actually having fun shocking these prospects
*Thats so awesome Stephen!Yep, you are definitely stepping out of the box!I'm so inspired about your story that I copied it and am sending it down the line to my new team!Thanks again,blue
*Blue, I have always been somewhat of an adventuress type when it comes to jobs. Started out going in the army (right out of high school) to be a heavy equipment mechanic. Next was a maintenance man, then maintenace supervisor at a prison. Next to an engineering firm as a project manager. Next to the hotel industry as a maintenance supervisor/national trainer. Next a vocational high school teacher teaching plumbing and electrical, now carpentry. Next my own business (already started that one). Along the way rental properties, a small machine and welding shop, painted some cars, built some motor cycles and a street rod and a bunch of other little stuff in the evenings. I always said I have quit most of the jobs that a lot of people would like to have. Like the challenge I guess. Now I am a jack of all trades with a lot of weird background. Am I outside the "box"? DanT
*Blue,Valentine cards to customers kids? Handing out $50 bills?I said "cutting edge".Not "over the edge". Did I say anything about "left feild"? I don't think so.You can step out of the box but that don't mean being preceived as a pervert or a fool by your clients. Unless you have a business death wish.People are watching you know.Stepping outside the box doesn't mean running around with your head on inside out and forgetting your manners.Do you want strangers sending your kids Valentines cards? Don't you think that's a little strange? And handing out fifty's? Who you trying to impress?Maybe you should stay in the box and think about things for a while.Ed.
*A tribute to Blue:From the chapter entitled “Control Of Destiny” from the book: Discovering The Soul of Service" by Leonard L. Berry, and I quote:“Control of destiny is a success sustainer. Companies in control of their destiny minimize interference that distracts them from their mission. They not only chart a well-defined strategic direction, they pursue the direction ‘unfettered.’ The senior leaders of a business determine it’s course - not competitors, not lenders, not institutional shareholders, not unions, not suppliers, not community activists, not the media, not politicians. The senior leaders keep the organization focused on creating superior value for customers, and this focus helps secure the organization’s future.Control of destiny is ‘independent’ action. Companies that sustain success become and stay famous with customers for their unique and valuable market offer. Influences that can undermine the market offer’s uniqueness and value are effectively blocked by the independent spirit that enables innovative action. This is the essence of control of destiny.”Seems Blue, that’s you!
*Ed, I thought I mentioned sending Valentines to your employees kids. I wonder....do you even know the names of all your employees kids?If you think handing out $50's to your employees is too radical, I think you need to get out more....I made those suggestions, to spur thought. Obvioulsly, the carpenter's hats are too thick...Regards...blue
*Thank you Sonny.I know you know what I mean. It's amazing how some ideas are belittled and looked upon with disdain, when the true motivation and inspiration is so pure and simple.I also know why you are able to demand, and get $95 per hour for your services, while others struggle to keep their heads above....Thanks again for inspiring me to get my $65....I'll be handing out those fifties for sure on the next first day of the job....if someone is ridiculing the idea, it must be a winner...I'll keep you posted....blue
*Stephen,That's exactly right! A few years ago my brother told me I should try responding to "How are you?" with "Terrific!" I tried it. Then I found myself making sure that I put some oomph into it and smiling like I meant it. Just doing that made me feel better, which makes the statement that much more sincere, etc. etc.And it does effect the ensuing conversation. It lifts my spirits and that effects the mood of the other person.Rich Beckman
*Rich, I usually respond with an emphatic "Awesome!" myself. Usually I mean it too!I can't figure out why I shouldn't be happy....blue
*For decades I've been saying: "Fantastic, and having a ball." and if they make a comment about such an up beat attitude, I follow with: "I've got great clients and am fortunate enough to do for a living exactly what I love."Setting the tone for the day. And as you stated, Rich, it is contagious.Of course, why be any other way? And a PA is the foundation for each new day.I can't handle whiners or complainers. Not in this country. Having been born in America I have opportunities that others before me have provided and yet still others can only dream about. It's up to me to utilize those opportunities or not, and if I choose not to, anything after that decision also lies squarely upon my own shoulders. "To be or not to be", eh?
*Stevo...you are the toast of my other Internet Group. They love your story and Judy says she likes you, even though she doesn't know you. Your story is a lot more powerful than you know!blue
*DanT, since your box is so broad, it might be very difficult for you to step out of it....when you do....look out!blue
*Blue, the really embarrasing thing is that I heard the exact same speaker give a virtually identical talk last year in Pittsburgh and it didn't sink in for me.The difference is that at this years seminar in Cleveland I was ready to be receptive. In fact,I already knew I was gonna try to improve my sales ratio and was primarily attending the seminar with a room largely filled with strangers as an opportunity to practice public speaking.
*Stephen, another thing I've been hearing lately is to re-read some of the positive books, and re-listen to the positive speeches and tapes. I'm told that since we are different people, we will hear and interpret things differently.Your story is proof-positive of that theory. Awesome. I could have used that story back in my grumpy years....blue
*Blue, Reading your valentine deal made me think of something we have been doing for a number of years with tenants. We send each member of the family a birthday card. Really not as time consuming as you would think. When they sign the rental agreement we get the birthdates and make out the cards with the month of the birthdate where the stamp goes. At the beginning of the month we send out all that are marked for that month. We also send Christmas cards with a $25 off rent voucher for Januarys rent to tenants who have not been late in the previous year. Amazing the response. My favorite greeting is " Great! if I were better I'd have to be twins". DanT
*To go along with Steve's train of thought.......I learned a long time ago that we communicate to others on many different levels.....words many times being the least profound......Sorta like "What you do speaks so loudly, I can't hear a word you're saying"People pick up on your attitude immediately (probably before they start judging your dress/diction etc. It's a certain sparkle in your eyes..a positive I'm-really-glad-to-meet-you attitude. Like a magnet, people are drawn to others they feel comfortable being around. My first effort has always been to alleviate the fear in another and let them know by my attitude that I'm on their side. When I walk through the door, I want to bring the sunshine in with me......the rest is negotiating the particulars.Maybe I'm just lucky (or too cheap) but I seldom loose a job.
*Awesome idea Dan! I'm sure your tenants appreciate the dinner out after the Christmas rush...blue
*Blue,I guess your Valentine thing to the kids of your employee's might work for you.It's just a little to "touchy feely" for me.We are a business, not a family. I try to keep a little distance from my employee's personal lives out of respect for them. It's a privacy thing. They work so that they can enjoy a financialy healthy life. Their personal lives should not include me. I'm the work guy, not the father figure. I'm proud to know each and every one of them and feel we are as equals, but as far as getting involved with their personal lives.......I wouldn't have time for MY personal life if I did that. We are all friends, and can count on each other in hard times. That's good enough for me.Ed.
*With what I built and what I design, do I have to think "out of the circle"?
*Blue, that attitude about giving out $50 bills does work for the employees of subs. When checking out work being done by a sub, It was not unusual for be to personally shake the hand of a sub's employee what was doing a great job while thanking him, getting his name and sending a note to the sub saying that. Than I gave that employee $10 bill for lunch - on The Lykos Group, Inc. as appreciation for his "professinalism."You would not believe the positive and shocking response from them. And how much emphasis do you think that guy placed upon the details of future jobs for us?Who among us doesn't like to feel important and appreciated for what we do - and have it verbalized and shown?
*Sonny, what a powerful suggestion!When I was a dedicated foreman for my mentor, no one ever came and thanked me for doing a good job even though I'm sure I was doing a great job for them.The $10 unexpected would make my day for a longgggg time!blue
*Blue, along that line, ocassionally when I get an exceptional meal at either a family style restaurant or a "fine" restaurant, if it's a family restaurant, I'll go into the kitchen and do the same to the cook, giving him a $5 bill, and if a "fine" reataurant, I'll ask my wait person to ask the "chef" to come to our table. I then stand up, compliment him in public, and give him a folded up $10 spot as I shake his hand.As Dirty Harry would say: "Go ahead. Make my day!" Screw that. I say, go ahead and make someone else's day!I ask, who the hell every says "Thank you." to the person who "created" the great meal? Are they not like us?
*OUT OF THE BOX: started a new radio series with a CBC radio personality who was in one of my evening woodworking classes. The series is about basic carpentry for the tool challenged. New direction for me. Steep learning curve and I found myself quite nervous taping our first show but it was fun to try something NEW.Also started writing a newspaper column,HIP TO BE SQUARE, for our local newspaper that deals with home owner building projects and questions. I'm surprised how much I enjoy writing.Real estate,man do I want to know how to invest in real estate! I don't know much but I'm trying to learn as fast as possible. Think I have similar feelings regarding carpentry that blue has. Time to move on. Turning fifty is pushing me too. Rich dad, poor dad is a great book. My wife and I have read several of Robert Kivosaki's books now and we are turning our kids on to them. Think and grow rich-great recommendation.Can't get out of the box fast enough. Thanks to all for the help.My thread on learning blues guitar FASTER is another attempt to bust through another place where I been stuck for a while.Hitting a half century is a landmark in my lifetime. There are times in your life when you want to go where you haven't been before and I don't have the patience I once had. This is one of those times for me. Bring it on...CHEERS, SILVER. Saturday night where I live. I'm fetching myself a stiff screwdriver.BTW - for you blues fans there is an absolutelyfabulous world class blues radio program on Saturday night: CBC Radio ONE- 11:00 to 1:00 EDST.Holger Petersen is the host. Find it at cbc.ca
*Blue,Good Thread!We can all stand to make the world a better place for those who truly deserve it.As far a stepping outside the box... to be successful you have to do it everyday. That's what I love about this board and most of the folks that come here. By virtue of the fact that we spend are free time here that is what we are doing.I too have been fearful of speaking in public, and I'm one to conquer my fears. I had an exceptional professor in a public speaking class in college, and he drilled this into my head-Tell 'em what your gonna tell 'em.Tell 'em.Tell 'em what you told 'em.I think that applies to just about any effective form of communication, be it sales or whatever.Another thing he taught us is consider your audience.In other words, know enough about them to tell them something that will keep their attention and/or stir their emotions.People say that if you close every sale, your price is too cheap. I try to close every sale, I'm not 100% successful, but I don't really play percentages either. I try and close them all. Alot of folks are salesmen, but a master closer is a different animal altogether.Tom
*Hey... it is this kind of crazy thinking that my good ideas come from... at least give him that OK?
*"when the student is ready, the teacher will appear"AWESOME!!!
*I answered "FANTASTIC!" for a while... then I really got weird and started saying... "FANTASTIC... because it's another beautiful day in the greatest nation on the earth"Boy, you should see the looks when it is a nasty weather day! But it is beautiful in my heart.I LOVE this thread. Some of you guys are awesome. Here is one of the toughest things I started doing. Giving compliments. I don't mean flattery. I mean like Sonny just gave blue. Sincere appreciation. I often ask for a customer service person's manager and praise the CSR to them in front of the CSR. You think I don't get GOLD LEVEL service the next time.Here is my latest... if I stop at a fast food place and the kid is good I will ask for the manager and then do my thing. Just what if the next time that kid feels like shirking he remembers my compliment and throws his shoulder to the task like a real man or woman would and does it anyways? What if this becomes a lifelong habit? What if someday they tell an audience about some guy coming into McDonalds and how what he said changed their life? What if???
*Silver, did the i Rich Dad series inspire you to move along into these new endeavors? It got me moving!I feel lucky that I discovered this in my forties. It's never too late to see the bigger picture however....blue
*Blue, there is something else I learned from the same speaker.She pointed out that most of us are wasting a fantastic opportunity to sneak a "commercial" in on a captive and receptive audience.She challenged us to re-think our answering machine message.While it has to be professional, it doesn't need to tell the caller something that the caller already knows. and she proved it to usMost peoples answering machine message goes something like" You have reached joe blow roofing -----------------"then she asked us to fill in the blanks.25 guys chanted,instictively,in unison, " After the beep please leave a message"The speaker pointed out that this is the year 2002 and unless someone just arrived here from MARS---anyone who knows how to reach us by phone also knows how to leave a message on an answering machine.why not put that spot on the answering machine to better use?The speakers idea was to compose a " 10 word commercial". A single sentence that encapsulates why the caller should do business with YOU .What makes YOU better than everyone else---what sets YOU apart.Why are YOU the best person to solve this callers problem. 10 words or less.the tricky thing is that this "10 word commercial "has to be genuine .It has to be something that you can actually bring yourself to say face to face with the prospect----because you are going to.You are gonna work that "10 word commercial" into your presentation 2 or 3 more times. Repeat it to the prospect 3 times and it will be stuck in their head.Remember this "10 word comercial" is to sum up everything you want your business to be known for.It ain't easy distilling all of that into 10 words or less---and doing so in a form that you can work into your presentation without snickering. I actually tried this last year---but I had to go back to the old message cause I kept laughing everytime I heard the new one! I have been working for weeks on a new one,but it is a real ball-buster man.
*Stephen, it would seem like you would easily be able to come up with a 10 word commercial, since your business is so specialized."You've called the premier roof repair specialist in the county.""Leave a messge"blue
*Nah,it ain't that simple. Remember I have to be able to say it face to face without snickering, It also has to be genuine and VERIFIABLE.Your suggestion is really just a slogan that is un-provable.It ain't as easy as you would think----which is why I had problems implementing it in my first attempt.
*Okay, I'll try one more."We guarantee our roof repair techniques forever. ""Leave a message."blue
*Blue, a gaurantee that lasts forever is a pretty long commitment!A pretty fair guy I used to sub a lot of work to had a line " all work hand nailed" with the implication that hand nailing was always superior to air guns.----the fact that he paid some of his guys under the table,was skating a fine line RE:insurance and workers comp,the fact that several of his guys were prone to high nailing and short nailing and the fact that he didn't own a brake---forcing his guys into relying to heavily on caulk to back up the flashing------didn't interfere with his ability to sell the presumed quality of a hand nailed job.Another guy I know boasts----"We use no sub-contractors" -----the presumption is that his own in-house crews will do a better job than someone who subs out a lot of work.I don't sub out much anymore myself----but I don't want to back myself into a corner in case I ever need to sub out a job.Actually my presentation currently focuses on exactly how I am gonna do the job under discussion----how I work with a small 2-3 man crew,how I personally handle the detailed roof top work myself,how my small crew size allows us to focus on the prep work which is vital to the long term results of the job, blah,blah,blah.... I am thinking of summing all that up with something like" Thanks for calling Hazlett Roofing & Renovation Ltd.We take the time to do EACH job right. Please leave a message AND a convenient time for you to receive a return call"how's that? my 10 word comercial only takes 9 monosyllabic words!
*Try this...come up with 100 reasons why I should call you instead of your stinkin' competitor. then you will find among those some really good sound bites. this is called your USP (Unique Selling Proposition)
*The other day on NPR some guy was talking about branding and K-Mart's failure. He said that K-Mart was a well recognized brand but that didn't keep them from filing bankruptcy. His favorite example of branding is FedX. He pointed out that there were lots of package delivery services, but FedX recognised that a business person (or a cog in the bureaucreacy) felt the timely delivery of the package they were sending was very important. FedX convinced us all that FedX cares just as much as we do that the package will be delivered on time.What does a consumer want from the roof??Function?How about "Keeping your home safe from the elements"??A large, long time, local roofer has as its slogan "Above all, a Curran roof" That is a great slogan.Rich Beckman
*Haz...#3"Personal attention to solving your roofing needs"blue
*Hey Stephen,How about,"We charge twice as much 'cause we work half the hours that most guys do"Seriously, the message thing is a good idea, but it is hard to come up with. Maybe a little jingle would work.Tom
*blue, I am inspired by Robert Kivosaki, Nappy Hill,Zig Ziglar and uh,Miles Davis to mention just a few. I also admit to being inspired by you. I really hadn't read anything new for way too long and picked up some of the stuff you were recommending. Now I'm on a roll.For a while on my answering machine, I had a few bars of Miles Davis's Summertime,Silver Construction;please leave a message.Got quite a few compliments. My lady thought it was too long but I dug it.I just have a generic massage now so I'm keen to the suggestions.
*Silver I'm thrilled that you got yourself re-energized because of my enthusiasm for the Rich Dad series. As I was reading the series, I often thought about my contracting fraternity and thought about how hard we work, for so little pay, while corporate America and other entrepreneurs made so much. My heart and soul was opened up to the realities of financial freedom, and I just wanted to let as many of "us" know, before I moved on into that arena myself.If some of the craftsmen would just learn and understand the concepts, they would be able to leverage a substantial financial windfall, and that would allow them to continue in their pursuit of their real dreams, that of creating wonderous works of art, with wood, bricks and stone, without worrying about how to carefor their families. It's such a shame that we, craftsmen, think we must wallow in financial mediocrity in order to hold onto our dreams. If Bill Gates decided to focus the rest of his life on working with the tools, don't you think he'd have a substantially better chance at creating something beyond excellence, because of his financial backing? If we could give Stan, that same amount of financial independence and then turn him loose on a set of stairs, wouldn't he be able to ratchet up the excellence?Gaining financial independence does not preclude someone from working with the tools.Good luck to you!blue
*I gotta admidt I love Tommy's suggestion---but I don't have the balls to look a prospect in the eyes and use it 2 or more times face to face.to tell the truth----coming up with a good 10 word comercial is A LOT harder than it originally looks.I am not really looking for a jingle or a trite,but catchy slogan.More like a simple,irrefutable statement that can calmly be worked into a normal conversation with a prospect.
*Miles Davis on the machine......God, you guys need help.Do you know how wrong the message you're sending is?I give. Some people can't be helped.Go to your seminars, read your books.Have you ever bought something because someone had jazz on the machine? Or blew their own horn on the machine?I guess that's how Mr. Sears and Mr. Robuck made it. Why not you? Is hard work and a good reputation out of the question?You want to know how to do it? (God forbid someone has to tell you) Call your biggest competitor.It's fine to think "outside the box", but you have to have a clue as to what the box is.Ed.
*I like the idea of doing something that no one else does. We have SUCH a homogenized culture. Most advertising/promotion is the same. Why not do something that sticks out? Take a chance. Take a chance not only on promotion but on customer service. Go beyond the normal to make your customers happy. Clients are just like us, they can appreciate action much more than words.What are some out of the box ideas for customer service?
*Peter,Try just giving "above average" service and you'll be well ahead of the norm.So many people think they need some sort of gimick to draw attention to their business. Catchy phrases, cute slogans or a bigger sign.Advertising is for retail. If you're sitting on your can in a store somewhere, you've got to get the word out that you're there. You can't go to the people, the people must come to you. If someone tells me they got a great deal on something I need at this or that store, I'm there. If someone tells me they had a great experience dealing with this or that person, count me in. I don't care if they have the name on the front in neon or not.Word of mouth advertising will make or break you. It's not your sign or your hat or your company shirt or even how you treat your employees. IT'S HOW YOU TREAT YOUR LAST CUSTOMER!Construction is a different world. You can't sell construction services like you do shoes. Everybody needs shoes......but how many times do you need a new roof, a bathroom remodel or an addition to your home? The average homeowner will usually have to spend more with you at one time than with any other purchase except maybe a car. And you know how much you yourself agonize over the purchase of a car.Maybe I should stay off this thread.THINK.Ed.
*>You can't sell construction services like you do shoes.You're right there Dallas......It's like the old ad on TV..."we do it the old fashioned way....we earn it.There are no new gimmics and the only thing that lasts in this business is your name.....and it takes time and effort to make it a name you can trust............
ED, I think if you look at the situation you will see that you are in Wholesale,and I am in Retail.
You are wholesaling carpentry labor and service to your gc's.Much repeat business
I am retailing roofing products and services directly to homeowners.Big ticket item that most people buy only once or so a lifetime-if that.
2 different approaches.
Blue.....you rich yet? Why not.....isn't this stuff supposed to work immediately? When the pay off? I've had all the sale pep-talks.......some good...some BS......most BS....whens the payoff? Like Dad said....never take a job that costs ya money!
In my own box......that would probably scare ya! Jeff * Jeff J. Buck/ Buck Construction/ Pittsburgh, PA *
Step out of the Box
Imo "customer service/response" i.e. has been the best approach. So many of our competitors finish a job and when the customer has a problem down the road they (the customer)are often put on the "back-burner", as they are engrossed in a new project.
We try and have someone at the customers home/office within 24-48 hrs.
Nearly 75% of our new work has come from word of mouth. We build new custom homes, do TI remodels in office space, home remodels, and some light commercial building.
And we are not a big company-- 10 skilled and semi-skilled employess with 2 office staff. We will do the job ourselves or sub it out and do the "clean up " with our crew.
Sort of sounds like I'm bragging yet this concept has kept us busy through thick and thin times.
Also we give our guys a bonus if we turn over a job on time and under budget-- and a "new start" bonus of $50 as a thank you-- after all without a good solid crew it wouldn't happen.
To us that is thinking "out of the box". It's worked for nearly 20yrs now.
Gary
Jeff, this is no get rich quick scheme, at least not for me. My skill level is well below avg. I'm working on it though.
Some people do a great business right out of the blocks. I met a Kirby salesguy that sold 91 memberships in his first month of the business. Theres 91 lucky people!
Actually, your dad is right, you shouldn't pay for a job. You're dad just didn't have the facts right. This is not a job, it's a business.
I'll pretty much guarantee that I'll be replacing all my carpentry income a lot sooner than you and you're dad combined.
Remember, he who laughs last, laughs best.
Incidently, when I started, I kinda figured I'd be averaging about $500 per month. I've done that. That's no great accomplishment, except that you have to remember that Im a carpenter, with carpenter skills. I have no idea how to sell anything. No one could be more horrible than me at this point in my career.
Anyways, keep up you're guffawing. The laugh is on you. Go ahead, keep ignoring the legal situations that you have, or have fun paying full price!
blue
Blue, is that residuals from the prepaid legal plan? Sounds like a good start to me. How keen are people when you talk to them about this? Is it a form of network marketing? That's a good thing according to Rich Dad.
What's up with real estate these days?
Have you listened to Zig Ziglar on selling. My lady picked up several of his tapes at the library. I was a bit sceptical but we had a listen. He's great-tells some goood stories and lots of creative approaches to selling. Most of us are selling ourselves to someone most of the time. As Zig would say, See you at the TOP!
hi ho silver
Edited 3/23/2002 9:40:37 PM ET by silver
Silver, out of respect for this site, I must refrain from publicly discussing the opportunity or the product. Suffice to say, that 80% of Americans need it. 90% of them can afford it, and residuls are the long term rewards.
If you don't see any value in your health insurance, or your life insurance, or you homeowners insurance, or your car insurance, then you won't see any value in this product.
I knew a guy who doesn't believe in any type of insurance. His daughter payed cash for her first car while she was in college. It was a nice, almost new model. He influenced her decision to "save" the insurance money and just buy the legal minimum of PLPD. Well, you guessed it, her car was stolen and stripped. It was a total loss.
Insurance is a tool that the average blue collar worker needs to protect his families financial matters. The rich do not need insurance. Rush Limbaugh likes to boast, "I don't have health insurance...I pay cash!".
Yes Silver, there is a need. Do I create that keen excitement that you seek? Sometimes...remember, I'm in the first year of my apprenticeship. I was horrible at carpentry in my first years...you should see me now!
blue
email me. I'll send you a package. If you prefer, call this pre-recorded message 212 461 2667 first to determine interest.
Blue,
I have been a dyed-in-the-wool carpenter and woodworker for many years. In 1970,I graduated from high school, got married, had a daughter and started working as a carpenter's helper. I was pretty bad my first year, too. Read everything about carpentry I could get my hands on, went to night school and worked hard. I started my own business 13 years ago with similar goals to you and one of my goals was to become a craftsman who could build anything he wanted to with wood. I feel I have satisfied that goal and I'm ready to move on.
One of my passions now is teaching. I started teaching evening classes in woodworking and related subjects 8 years ago and discovered that I absolutely love teaching. A fulltime job may be opening up in the near future and I'm pulling out all the stops going for that one.
This money thing has also got me by the short and curlies and one of my goals now is to make $100,000 by December 2002, which is a real stretch for me. I am searching for different ways to do this(as Nappy would say: "I am awaiting a plan by which to accumulate this money and I will follow that plan when it is received")
"I'm really having a ball at this" from you it made me realize how keen I am for that feeling again of total immersion and pleasure from
what I am doing for a living, which at this time is still mainly carpentry and woodworking. So carpentry doesn't do it anymore for me. Teaching does but it seems my money requirements are greater than what teaching will bring in so I am keenly interested in how other folks make big bucks in real estate and other non-carpentry related endeavors that they ENJOY as I formulate a new plan. This may help you know where I'm coming from, trying hard to step out of the box.
silver
Silver, I'm having a hard time finding this thread, even when there's another reply in it. This site is horrible now.
I forgot to mention to you the other day something. You asked if my new endeavor was a MLM or something. The short answer is yes, kinda.
I remember reading in the Rich Dad series that one of the things we should do was build a large MLM organization. Rich Dad claimed that it would teach the basic skills of selling and organization. I also remember how horrible I felt seeing that suggestion. The last thing I wanted to do, on this earth, was get involved in an MLM type activity. I'm now glad that he made that suggestion.
First, let me tell you that Nappy is right. The opportunity will present itself, the spirit must be open to receive it.
I'm glad that I heeded RD's advice. He was right, the MLM's provide the ultimate in sales trainging, something that I desparately needed. I am continually amazed at how much quality stuff is available and how much I am learning every day. I know that I should have had this training twenty years ago. I'm sure my carpentry company would be numbered in the hundreds, if only I knew.
If teaching is exhilirating to you, consider this. Last night, I was on the phone, teaching. I was teaching my new associate some of the techniques that I have learned over the weekend. I was able to teach, because I've already employed some of the new techniques and FOUND SUCCESS!
I used to hate teaching carpentry, but have found a renewed interest in teaching others how to MAKE MONEY!
Good luck in your quest to become an educator.
One othe thing. The $100 grand thing. I KNOW I will be a 100k earner, outside of carpentry within a year. I'll still have my carpentry, and still have my real estate stuff going. I'm putting the rent-to-own business on hold till I get out of these rural areas. I know it can be done out here, but it's not worth the effort, compared to living closer to the urban areas. I'd have to travel over thirty minutes to get to a large (relative) city and that becomes too time consuming.
blue
Edited 3/26/2002 5:44:42 AM ET by blue_eyed_devil
Blue....arne't ya supposed to turn a negative into a positive? All ya did was tell me you'd laugh last.........and I'd pay full price for legal advice........where's the not so subtle sales pitch? Aren't ya supposed to turn me?
Remember...the first 3 "NO'S" are meaning less......just a triggered resopnse.......and a good salesman never quits till at least 5. Business cost money.... like a franchise....but most franchises fail and go bankrupt. Paramid scheme......the money's been made at the top. Everyove else is just treading water.
My Dad may have been "conserative" with the "job opprutinities".....but he's the one retired with a paid off house and car and traveling when ever they want! What will we be doing?
You say our eye's are closed because we don't jump in feet first......maybe yours are closed because you don't see alot drown that way! Still interresting though.......catch ya in a year or so. See how much it shines. Jeff * Jeff J. Buck/ Buck Construction/ Pittsburgh, PA *
2nd Generation Buck Const, 3rd generation Craftsman
Jeff, your the one that thinks I'm trying to sell you. I don't care if you want the product, or the opportunity. I'm in a sorting business, not a selling business. Why should I waste time on someone that doesn't want, nor need my product, when there are over 300 million other people that do have a need?
I'm glad that your dad has achieved financial independence. That is my goal too.
I'm not sure what you mean pyamid skeme. Does the fellow in New Mexico that sold 91 memberships, walking the street and standing in lines suggest that it takes a pyramid to be successful? He doesn't have a team, doesn't have a business card, doesn't have a lead program, doesn't have any tool except probably a 10 cent brochure. If you'd like, I can give you his email (I'd have to email him first to ask permission). Then, you can tell me whether "only the top are making money".
Incidently, the guy will be making $100 + $32 for each of his next month's sales. My guess is that he's probably going to equal or better his success rate for the next few coming months. At his rate of production, he will move up the compensation plan to the $125 + $32 this month, without "building a team". By month three or four, he will move to $150 + $32. Don't worry about him running out of people either...it's safe to say that no one has ever offerred you this service. The field is wide open.....kinda like the cellphone industry a few short years ago.
Am I trying to sell you? Nope...I really don't care. Keep supporting your full price lawyers with their "no customer service" mentality. Keep walking in and getting your financial situation sized up before you get your price for their services. They need you, I don't.
Actually I won't really be laughing last. I'm already long past that point in my life about needing the last laugh. I don't mind being the subject of your barbs. I don't even mind explaining my shortfalls in the business. I'm comfortable knowing that I'm failing my way to the top. I'll never be successful, until I fail enough to learn something.
Gotta run....I've got some reading to do...
blue
Jeff,
Learned awhile ago to throttle my skepticism, at least until I fully understood something. My compadre's that told me that they were going to do something in their early 20s are now sitting on gold mines in their early 40s. And I snickered at them. Oh well
I look down my nose at people who dare to look down their nose at people.
Blue ,I started reading RDPD lastnight. It has definetly opened my eyes to the opportunities that are out there.
This whole thing started for me with haveing to start an IRA for tax writeoffs. Which got me reading investing books from the library, then you mentioned "Rich Dad Poor Dad". I picked it up and haven't been able to put it down since.
I just wanted to thank you for the suggestion
Dave
Pete......first off.....skepticism is healthy. Fear is what keep's ya alive!
Second......I was replying to Blue. Someone else, someone I feel I don't know too well....I woulda kept my mouth shut.....but I think me and Blue kinda know each other a bit.....seen each other around here enough....so to him.....I'll show my skepticism. He's a big boy. He'll deal with it.
My main reason for posting in this thread...and I think also that of the other "detractors".....no one wants to see Blue empty the bank account on one deal. I'd just hope to be a part of that little voice in the back of the head that says......ReRead the Fine Print.....should that case ever unfold. Lord knows I've coulda used that voice a few times in the past. Not saying that'll ever happen.
Third......even if this was Blues firts post here...and I had no idea how he was.......Ya put it out there....ya watch it get shot down......or supported......but if an idea is run up the flag pole...it's mine to shoot down....if I so choose! No rules around here about being acceptable and openminded! Later, Jeff * Jeff J. Buck/ Buck Construction/ Pittsburgh, PA *
2nd Generation Buck Const, 3rd generation Craftsman
Jeff, don't worry about me emptying the bank account on one deal. In fact, it's the opposite. For every deal, I put money in the bank account!
My nephew is now benefitting quite large from the weekend training. He left an excited message on the phone, "Hey Uncle Jim, I'm two for two!". Not bad for a shy, introverted 19 yr old kid that has no experience at anything! He's using "hot" leads, that are qualified and idicate a specific need.
Last night I chatted with the burger flipper that sold 59 last month (I thought he sold 51). He is also using hot leads. His gross income was $7400 last month closing about 50%. He claimed he was burned out. Curious, I asked him how much time he had spent garnering those 59 sales. "About 4 hours a day" he replied.
I think we all need one of those burned out type jobs!
Actually, he went on to explain that he is a stay at home dad, chasing a two year old.
Jeff, I don't mind any one's skepticism. And I don't mind any challenges. I've been around a long time, and I don't look dreamy eyed at anything. The fact is, that I went searching for this company as soon as I purchased the service. It's time is come. The time is now. If blue collar workers had another choice in the matter, I'd look at that too. There just isn't any other choice. Middle America lets itself get trampled, legally speaking, because they don't have the financial ability to stand up for their rights. Until now, you had to contract with a $200 attorney to fight an $80 overcharge, or wrangle with the merchant to get refunds, etc. Now, it's a phone call away at no additional charge. I've met hundreds who have made it work out financially for them. It's already saved me considerable money and I know it wil continue to do so for a long, long time.
blue
I know all that Blue...that's why I don't feel I have to mince words as we discuss things. Maybe we're just left-overs from the breaktime days when ya could type a mini bad word and insult each other!
I've actually looked into the type of service you are selling. Sounds similar, from what I can piece together. Never persued it......best friends Dad is a top east coast injury lawyer(now retired) and his firm covers all else. That...and the favors owed to my Dad from his days in the railroad union....I'm covered lawyer wise...freebie/on favors.....for the near future. Always helps to "know a guy that knows a guy"......Jeff * Jeff J. Buck/ Buck Construction/ Pittsburgh, PA *
2nd Generation Buck Const, 3rd generation Craftsman
Hi Blue.
Welcome to my profession. My response to that usual how are you greeting, is to say," Tall and handsome, rich and famous, and if you believe that I have a Bridge in Brooklyn for sale..." It always stops them. always! then you get the smile of a shared joke and you're well on your way to making a friend. I used to use your response but if someone was having a bad day and you came along all happy and satisfied, it would pissp them off.
It also works if someone asks if they can help you...
Can you make me tall and handsome, rich and famous? Delivered as dead pan as you can and you can almost hear the gears turning while their face lights up with a smile. Again a shared joke at your expense and you are on your way to making a friend.
Learn the differance selling techniques. closing techniques. They help both you and your potential customer.
Frenchy, I believe that your last post to me was the most civilized that you've ever offered to me.
Thanks.
blue
Thanks Blue,
I'm proud of my profession, I'm glad when others try it evan though the chances of them staying in the profession for for 5 years or more are less than 100 to one.
Ir's alot harder than it looks and only three things will make you successful for the lomg run.
First.
You must really feel that you're helping someone. If you think that you can slick someone or find some majic words that will cause someone to open their purse strings, you're wrong. maybe for the short haul you can but to succeed over the long haul you have to feel that what you offer is a real value to others.
Second.
Hard work, there is no substitute. you must keep on prospecting long after you want to. If you want to really be successful forget an 8 hour day. you really need to work 60 70 hours a week. really work it. Set up calls when the customers want you and drive early or late to do so. (wind shield time is a good chance to practice selling features to the steering wheel) listen to motivational tapes if you want to but be careful, others are listening to them also and the chance of you sounding like others is great. Be original! One guy made a heck of a living with a sock puppet giving others laughs and easing his way into steady and repeat sales. If others had used his idea customers would feel that they were cheap imatators.
Learn,
learn to handle objections, learn closing techniques, learn competitive information ,and all of the feratures and benefits of your product. learn what your customers do and why and how. your sales presentation needs to be crafted to solve their problems not what your sales manager wants you to say. When you meet your customer you need to solve a problem not recite a speech. With experiance, you'll become very effective and earn a very nice living. Top sales professionals are the second best paid profession (next to doctors, whadja think ladies of the evening? :)
Frenchy, you were going along good with your post about sales until you got to the part about 60 to 70 hours per week.
I know guys working 4 hours per day making better money than I ever did as a "successful" carpenter contractor.
If you really think you need to work 6o hours per week to be successful, maybe you should think about a career change. I would.
blue
Blue.....Frenchy's right about the hours. Most full time sales work 6--70-80 hrs a week easy. I've sold from carpet cleaning running a phone room to new cars...and a few other things in between........and the sales life makes for a long week.
Thant's actually how I ended up back into construction! Years ago got burnt out from the hours and tired of never seeing my new bride.....so I quit and went back to remodeling while I decided what to do with the rest of my life!
And that's coming from someone that actually liked sales! Nothing better than closing the deal. I even had faith in my products. Did sales for about 8 years......met alot of other sales people that were in the exact same boat.
It's got to be a tough life when remodeling is the alternative! Jeff * Jeff J. Buck/ Buck Construction/ Pittsburgh, PA *
2nd Generation Buck Const, 3rd generation Craftsman
Blue,
like many things it looks easy untill you do it. I've worked well over 70-80 hours a week to get where I am. Now that I'm here, I'm taking time to smell the roses at some cost to my profession..
There were years, heck, almost whole decades where vacations didn't happen or were for reasons other than relaxation. Lately my blood pressure has dropped back down to the normal range, I no longer wake up with the shakes. I've lost weight and My life has gotten much easier at some cost to my income and professional success.
In sales there is no hourly wage, there is absolutely no security, no union to protect you, and success which smells so sweet for a while can elude you completely. I enjoyed flying in the company Lear jet, I enjoyed the expenses accounts and 6 figure pay. They came as a result of turning a territory from less than $300,000 annual sales to over 2 & 1/2 million. Then, with nothing more than a change of managemant, myself and everyone else on the sales staff was replaced.
That wasn't the first time that's happened nor do I expect it to be the last. In my years doing this I've seen plenty of sales managers come and go. They earn less and have less security than much of the sales staff they manage. They may have gotten their job by promising many things, More sales, higher profits, or less problems are all common. If that happens then they are secure and their income goes up. If it doesn't happen then they need to find reason, that reason is seldom, "I promised more than I can deliver, fire me"
Now I work somewhat less than 30 fours a week & my income is much closer to average and I have time to build my dream house.
To work less than 60 to 70 hours a week getting established is almost a guarantee that your income will only be average or less. It's not a way to build a reputation ( and a reputation is your only real security when shi* happens )
Once my home is finished I expect to go back and start working 70-80 hours a week again. That is the only way that I'm certain to earn the income that got me to this position in my life. You commented about home life, well it's simple. work and family. everything else is out. I don't go off and have a drink with the guys, or golf or fish or hunt. I do as the Amish preach, "celebrate work"
Frenchy, our business is loaded with Corporate American people that have experienced the same setbacks that you have. If you willing to put that much time into our business, you'd explode so big, so fast!
I'm currently putting in about 10-15 hours per week into this. A significant part of this time is for my education and personal development. I was hoping to add a mere $500 per month in extra income and I've exceeded that desite my poor sales skills and inconsistent effort. I've now decided to apply myself in a much more significant way.
I can tell you this: I will not have to put 60 to 70 hours per week to succeed in this business. If I put 40 in, that would be alot. This business is geared for the busy person. It is easily done part time in your normal routine life.
Give me a ring when you decide you want to put some extra time into a sales effort. I'll show you a way to get your significant multi six figure income without selling your soul....
blue
Blue,
Let me give you a bit of my history.
Not to bore or brag, just to give you an idea of where I'm coming from. I had a variety of sales jobs as a kid, won't bore you with details but by the time I was old enough to walk outside of my block, I've sold. My father was a salesman as did my grandfather (abit, part time) I've earned my living as a sales pro since leaving the Navy in 1974. (evan in the Navy when stationed ashore I worked part time in sales)
At least 20 times in my life I've been the top producing salesman in the company I worked for. I've got the usual ego wall of plaques/ trophys/ certificates etc. but I guess my biggest trophy is my home/lifestyle.
Several times a year recruiters call me and offer new opportunites. Judging those oppertunies I occasionally see a chance that will be better than what I'm currently doing. Then I have to decide what risks are involved and what expenses occured.
In short I run my own corporation. With full disclosure I will consider any offer. I have the experiance and ability to properly judge it's value.
Frenchy, I apologize for not responding sooner. I don't visit this site very much anymore. In fact, once a week is plenty to see if something changes (I doubt that it ever will).
Because of your vast experience in the field of sales, I'd be honored to allow you to evaluate the company, compensation, product, need in the marketplace and timing of my latest endeavor. With your permission, I'll send you an email with the links needed to make an informed evaluation.
I've selected "inform me by email" so if you post an affirmative to this site, I'll know and respond immediately.
One question: Did the 20 top producer awards come from the same company? If you were the top producer in our company, you'd be making over $30k PER DAY! Just wondering...
blue
Frenchy, do you really work that much? How can you have time to be building a house and cope with family life? Or is that just your opinion on what takes to be successful in sales? It seems that a lot of sales people do work that much, and then their lives fall apart at home. So what's the point then? Why do we work? I work to get the necessities in life, and that's it. I feel that even 40 hours a week is too much myself, and am sometimes ridiculed for that opinion. Americans work more hours than any other country, yet we are pushed to work even more, and so I frequently have to work more than 40 hours myself. I feel that I don't have enough time as it is at home, there is no way that I would work like that all the time. Guess that's why I have no interest in sales.
Frenchy
Been doing construction now 27 years way full time. There really is no stead fast rule to success..as a matter of fact....what is success for one isnt for another as these posts exemplify. I think Andrew Carnagie said "work smart not hard" meaning dont waste time. Sometimes in my day I think I should hire more help and stop beating my body up but deep inside I also tell myself that I love my work and theres so much within it all that I just cant give up too many of its pieces to others. Stupid...I know but I spose thats why I do what I do. I love creating things. My solution was to do my own crib....worst crib in the best hood. I only had myself to answer to. Look at my profile or web page. Was a humongous amount of work..even more then I imagined but.....its now 99% finished and on the market. Kinda don't wanna sell it but its wayyyyyy to big for me and the taxes? $14000 a year......eeeeee. Thing is....The rewards I recieved in pushing forward and "percercering" were the biggest payoffs of all. Builds character..and I love to build . Probably will be the death of me but thats the way I wanna go out. At 51 and this almost 4 year project I'm ready now for the next one...All these past projects were practice for my next real one. I feel after 27 years I just got it. My ego level is nill....I dont think on ego levels but more on SOUL levels......or at least I try to. Aint about making Bill GAtes dough.....or whomever..Its about....well at least to me...its about feeling a sense of accomplishment and dedication and character. Along with that I spose comes the dough. Some say if you do what you love you will succeed.....Hey...I think it was me that said that.
Be well
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Congrads Andy.
it's smart to take the worst house inthe best neighborhood. that's where the payoff is. I've done it too and there have been years where I've made more money owning the house than working.
$14,000 a year taxes? That's getting close to my neighborhood!
where ya from .......California?It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
No. Lake Minnetonka Minnesota, average house on the lake is well over a million.
Hey... I am impressed. What kind of sales are you in?
I am almot ashamed of some of my posts to you! Almost! :-)
$14K in taxes on a $1m house? That's nothing.... a $1m house in my area would be approx. $27k annually. And count on it to go up a min of 6-8% per year. Of course I do live in one of the most glamorous parts of the country...... suburban Milwaukee, Wis. I told the last cop that hassled me that my family's three residences in the village combined pay more in taxes than his salary, and this is what I have to thank for it!
I'm done complaining now :-)
Andy
I sell construction equipment, I've been selling equipment for twenty years. Prior to that I sold a variety of things, I actually made my living full time selling since 1974 and part time since about 1956.
Edited 5/22/2002 10:13:58 PM ET by frenchy
Okay Ed, I've been thinking for two weeks for you, trying to figure out what you could do to "step out of the box". Here's what I came up with.
Create a customer survey. Find out what they like a bout you and your guys, and what they'd like to improve.
Then, share that with the crew.
Of course, since the clients will have a lot of likes, you'll be sharing accolades!
Everyone likes an unexpected pat on the back.
blue
Hey Boss Hog,
You'd the man. You won the S.O.(T.)B. prize of the week and win a cd of your choice on the tav' ...and I'm buying this week.
Man ! I came here tonight really believing this place
was dying. Thanks-I'm really inspired by your creativity and initiative.
Gives me some ideas.
This really made my day! Right ON! and making the world a better place and safer for kids.Now I feel like a slacker.
Boss Hog- I tried to find your name in the menu. Why for it wasn't there?
Hi ho silver
Silver -
The menu only shows names of people who are logged in to the site, or have been recently. (I think) I was in bed long before you posted around midnight.
Glad you put the "T" in the "SOTB".............(-:
Mornin' Boss Hog,
So what cd would you like? I'm guessing but I think you're a country
fan. Shania Twain?
Maybe we could start a cd exchange- I send you one of my favs or your choice. Next week you send one to someone. Ever heard Miles Davis- Kind of Blue? or Diana Crawl-anything by her! How 'bout a copy of the cd my daughter will be making in 2 weeks with a group of young folks called The Kam Valley Fiddlers of traditional old tyme irish and scottish fiddle tunes.
A little inspiration goes a long way. The day after I read your post, I ran into a painter/avid kayaker I've worked with in the past. He was pumped about ####cedar strip kayak he was just starting to build. Over coffee we brainstormed about a kayak building course that I could teach at the college(I love teaching) with a guided tour at the end that he could lead(he loves guiding) with the new cedar strip kayaks that the students had built. I called the college and my program officer thinks it's a great idea. In the meantime, I'm doing more research and hope to start building a kayak of my own in the near future.
Yesterday, I went to his shop for the day, helped work on his kayak,
listened to some wonderful jazz, took some pictures and am hoping to turn this into an article for the newspaper.
cheers, silver
Silver,
Tom Waitts is coming out with Two new CD's in April. That dude rocks bro. Check out way happenin' dark blues....Just a suggestion.It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Hey Andy,
Thanks for the suggestion. Always have my ear to the ground for great music. Tom Waits- that would be stepping out of the box for me.
I'll have a listen- is that the name of it "Way happening dark blues"?
silver
Silver..no thats not the name.its just how "I" describe his music. Get "the best of" to start out with....Also John Hammond is incredable. These guys are mostly writers which is why you dont hear a lot about them..John HAmmond does a lot of tunes that Bonnie Raitt made famous and Tom Waitts,,,well, everyone does his tunes, Look them up on the web....dont forgwet the king of em all.ROBERT JOHNSON..look that dude up!!! Everyone from Clapton to the Stones to the Beatles did that dudes songs. He dates back to the 30's I think or before
BE well
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Wondering if that's the same John Hammond that does the intro on the Robert Johnson video? His dad was a record exec and signed Johnson. Good white blues singer. Jeff * Jeff J. Buck/ Buck Construction/ Pittsburgh, PA *
2nd Generation Buck Const, 3rd generation Craftsman
Jeff....Exactly.It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
My problem is everytime I step out of the box I step right into some dog mess.
I look down my nose at people who dare to look down their nose at people.
Jeff and Andy:
What Robert Johnson video are you talking about? I'm a huge fan of his 'cepting I never heard about no video but I am way out of the loop.
"Cross Roads Blues" was recorded in 1936. You probably know that the crossroads he's referring to is where he sold his soul to the devil in return for being able to play the devil's music exceptionally well. I read he was no hell before he ran into the devil. Thought about a similar deal myself but I think he's got all the help he needs...
You ever listen to Jimi Hendrix play "Red House". Jimi got the blues.
silver
Silver....Go look up R Johnson on line and order the Video CD.Its way cool if you dig that kinda old Blues(which I cant live without). When in NYC go see the new play down the Village on Bleeker St called Love Janis.......damn its GREAT!!! About Janis Joplin's life.
I have a bootleg CD called Red House of Jimi's....with a tune that includes Jim Morrison called Morrisons Lamont...OMG....was recorded at a club I use to frequent in NYC called THE SCENE( Steve PAuls Scene) in the early seventies.. Was with Jim and Jimi and...geezzzzzzzzz I forget who else,,,,,,,,,, but theyre all soooo F'd up especially Jim......SERIOUSLYYYYYYYYYYYYY.....If you have a chance to find this bootleg check it out.its soooooo intense.....Jimi soooooooo rocks and Jim is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ...uh..you figure it out...lolIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
well....ya made me get up and dig out the video! Got mine from the Delta Blues Museum in Clarksdale(or Clarksburg...."dale", i think). Called "The Search for Robert Johnson". Put out by Sony Music Video Enterprises. Got a pic of John Hammond on the back. Lots great interviews with old blues guys...and a girl friend or two of Johnson.
About 10 yrs ago...on a move from Pgh to Houston...I followed the blues trail backward. Left here....went to Memphis/Tupolo/Clarksdale(?) then down to spend a few days in New Orleans.
Stopped at the real cross roads...all built up now.....4 lanes of pavement and a light!
Took a pic that amazed me for a few seconds....me at the nearest light pole...and the whole imiage was out of focus! Only one on that roll. Though the devil may still be hanging around.....till I noticed the auto focus picked up the truck mirror that was driving by in the background!
Went to a few Juke Joints. Museum is very nice.......just being the top floor of the local Carnegie Library! Lots to see though. Even had a Diddley Bo you could pluck.
Email me if ya need the ISBN number. I got the box set CD's when it first came out....now it's everywhere for about a quarter what I paid!
Jeff * Jeff J. Buck/ Buck Construction/ Pittsburgh, PA *
2nd Generation Buck Const, 3rd generation Craftsman
Hey Jeff and Andy,
thanks for the info and cool stories...nyc-I have a daughter who lives there. One of these years I'm going to visit her and
catch some live blues and jazz, big city style.
You both sound like serious blues fans. The cd selection locally
is very limited. Know of a good online source for blues and jazz?
Who do you listen to besides Robert Johnson when you want to crank some blues on the blaster?
silver
I've never really been in the box. I've actually been in situations where I explained to clients that "the customer is not always right. In fact, the customer is quite often wrong". Granted, I'm no millionaire but I keep on keepin' on.
I like the spirit of this thread. I like the fact that Blue has shifted gears enthusiastically, despite getting some friendly fire. I'm all about encouraging people to find a new path, and take a chance. Quit your job, sell hot dogs in Miami, or whatever else trips your trigger.
My future looks like beach property in a different country, or drifting around in a boat. Not getting too worked up about anything much.
I believe that if you tried to max out your productivity, and were a fairly conservative spender, you could easily retire with a million dollars in a twenty year period--life is so easy as we know it, we blow money, we buy things we don't need, we sit on our butts and watch tv, do all kinds of frivolous activity. If it's your sincere goal to make money, I think Blue's right, you could make a lot of it in a short time frame.
My problem is I don't care enough about money. I'm not prepared for the future. And I'm not impressed with people's money or things.
Mad Dog
Mad Dog, I used to say the same things: "I don't care about money". There's nothing wrong with that. Now I'm totally inspired about making money, simply because I can. I'm also making more money, simply because I decided to!
Life is about choices. For twenty nine years, I chose to invest my time in my family. Now I'm investing time in making money. I spent a considerable amount of time, investing in my carpentry future and it payed off, I can put together a decent house. Now I'm investing some considerable time in learning about financial matters.
Learning different skills will undoubtedly pay off. For instance, I recently learned about some new techniques for marketing the pre paid legal service that I am hot on right now. So, using those skills, I made a call on my coffee break yesterday. CHA-CHING.... I jumped out of the truck with an extra $100 in my possession by helping a nice lady in New York!
The hundred dollars is really inconsequential. It's the attitude that makes the difference. In years past, I wouldn't have ever thought about making a sale on my coffee break, or while driving home. Now, I've learned new things and can make money in several different ways. If someone can tell me why that's wrong, please do!
blue
Blue,
Nothing wrong with that.
I'm not cut out to be a good salesperson. To explain, I'll tell you why I would be a good salesperson.
First, my Dad was. And he was good. He took it to the top. The problem is, Dad is always selling something. If the day is cloudy, he's selling the sun. He'll sell the cloudy day too, if no one will buy the sun.
Next, I was trained by some of the big guns at Motorola, inc. in Chicago, which is significant because that company outlasted many of its kind because it competed extremely well, and outsold everyone for many years.
At times, I can do this. I can sell stuff. But here's the reason why I'm no good at it:
It can become you. And you can become it. Gotta watch that. People will start to avoid you, or dread your acquaintence if it's all about sales, and money. You'll see the smiley face on every Mary Kay woman, at least the successful ones. Need a smile, stop in at Century 21. I've got a sorority smile stuck in my closet somewhere too, haul it out now and then for odd social occasions. But it's there.
the other thing is ethics. Almost nobody needs anything being sold these days, when you get right down to it. Your job is to tell them they do. And people will believe you. And sometimes, you'll step out just a bit, and say some stuff maybe that's just a teensy weensy bit of a stretch, just to snag one more (if you don't, it won't last anyway, most likely). But to me, this fringe area is a significant problem, I don't like to be there. I don't like forcing something on someone. I don't like it when it happens to me.
those are my only cautions.
Best of luck in your pursuits,
Mad Dog
Mad Dog, if you had to strectch the truth to make the sale, you were selling the wrong product.
Lets talk about those fake smiles. What would it take to put a real smile on your face? Why don't more people walk around with real smiles? Could financial worry have something to do with it?
blue
I'm not sure. But I do know sales types who tend to smile a lot more when they smell money.
I guess if we were financially independent, we'd smile that much. Or develop an attitude of being hard to please.
Sorry mad dog for replying to you here. This isn't really aimed at you.
I just checked my messages like I used to in the olden days. This same message appeared, even though I remember reading it a few days ago.
This site s u c k s.
blue
Blue-I'm with you on that one! This site does s u c k. I find it interesting that there could be such a huge difference in discussion board design and that this particular format is so ineffective compared to the old design. It's weird but WEBX had a human feel to it that is lacking here and was truly unique. Could be a case of stepping out of the box the wrong way. In one reality, I would love to be a geek who could take the best from both and make it better. If it's not broke, don't fix it.
silver>grinning and bearing with it
Mad Dog- I think I know where you're coming from. I have similar feelings as well. But we go through s h i t and right now, for the first time in my life, I am able to look not only 5 years down the road but able to glimpse timetracks 10 to 20 years down the road, great spirit willing. At this crossroad,I'm looking and saying,"Ok. That was a goal and I've done that, got the t-shirt. What's the next challenge? How do I want to set myself up now?"
Today's habits become tomorrow's reality.
Now I want to teach more than anything( besides being in a blues band). And I want to be very comfortable, even well off in the next 5 years.
That's why I'm trying to change my thinking and aiming higher, going where I haven't been before. But I haven't sold out yet-and never will. I'm trying to wrap my mind around becoming a "salesman" and it's
a stretch for me because of the box we put salespeople in.
Speaking of stretch, I'm trying to put my script together for my CBC radio spot,TALKING TOOLS, that we record tomorrow. I needed a break -catch ya later,silver
Edited 4/8/2002 8:32:44 PM ET by silver
I'd just get the Johnson Video and buy some cd's of all the guys interviewed! That would be a great start to a traditional collection. I just buy what I like. As a short/fat/white guy.....I've had the honor to sing the blues from front row seats to the stage in a New Orleans club....have the blues and it'll take ya where ya want! OK...it was more like "scat".....but it was me and the singer!
For something a bot off beat....with a bit of Nashville thrown in....do a search on Dave MacKenzie.......Rats in my Bedroom...can't be beat. Saw him live in Houston and had a few drinks with him. Great guy.....better songs! I still like the oldest of the old stuff.
as the old joke goes......when watching blues live....just watch for the white guy...check if he's peeking! Jeff * Jeff J. Buck/ Buck Construction/ Pittsburgh, PA *
2nd Generation Buck Const, 3rd generation Craftsman
Sure wish I lived near where you are, so I could take the kayak building course and the guided tour. I think that is an absolutely fabulous idea!Insist on the real MadMom - accept no substitutes!
Thank you MadMom. I'm really trying to "step out of the box" but it's good to know I'm on the right track.
I wish you could be in the course too. I'm in Thunder Bay, Ontario
which is on Lake Superior.
I also teach a "general woodworking" evening class which is a project
oriented course that is lots of fun and a great introduction to woodworking. Perhaps you could try one in your area. I went to a night woodworking class in 1970 and haven't stopped woodworking since.
A hoppy easter to you
silver
You guys make a good point about how you respond to the typical "How are ya doing" question. I generally say "fair" or "fair to middlin" or something to that effect. I could probably change that and make a beter impression.
Guess this isn't necessarilly "stepping out of the box", but maybe it's close - I thought for years that someone ought to do something about farm safety training for kids in our area. In school, the kids get training about fire safety, first aid, drug abuse prevention, etc. But nobody talks to them about not getting tangled up in an auger, or not riding on tractors with their friends. Things that are unique to a rural community.
So I applied to host a farm safety day Camp in our area through a program sponsored by Progresive Farmer magazine. I've put together a team to organize the thing, and gotten enough money to sponsor the it. We'll probably have 40 volunteers to run the camp and hope to have about 150 kids there.
Maybe not a big deal to some of you, but I think it's pretty good for a shy small town farm boy.
Maybe not a big deal to some of you, but I think it's pretty
It's ALWAYS a big deal when you take the initiative to help kids learn. From me you get a (big bow)There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......