Don Papenburg sent me these photos of some of his stonework. I think they’re pretty darned impressive. I am posting them in the order I got them.
I’ll let Don field any questions.
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"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
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Beautimous!!!
The dorr doesn't begin to do justice to the stonework
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
It was handy at the time the hole had to be filled . When I get done they will have kustom made wood doors .
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Oh My Goodness!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey Piffin,I'd appreciate you checking out my post under drywall cracking again, general techniques. Post # 10 has pictures of the problem.
Thanks
Kevin
A MILWAUKEE SIDEWINDER!!!
Must be a worm drive wasn't up to the task of a real saw!!!
:)
Nice stuff
Guys gotta be part Italian!
Mr. T.
Maybe Christmas doesn't come from a store...
Maybe Christmas means a little bit more...
Then he got the strength of ten Grinches, plus two!!!
All Kraut
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That stonework is sweet. That handleset on the porch door is an abomination for that house...
last one
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"Everybody must get stoned!" That's great work. I love the look of natural stone. Chief of all sinners.
The stone work looks great, It's cool to see him using a router and circ saw to mill the brackets.
Piffin's correct though, those doors need to be better looking, IMO wood doors to compliment the stone work... Especially that cheap looking 6 panel with cheesy sidelight....
He coulda saved himself some time and tool wear by contacting the outfit our son works for: Materials Marketing. Custom packages for each and every job.
All kinds of cut and fabricated stone. Direct to builders.
Google for them and check out their website.
What is their turnaround ? If they can't get it too me in 24hr. or less . I saved no time . I made the two corbels in less than 8hrs , from hey that would be cool too have to reality ready for mortar.
Thanks for passing them on.I took the liberty of photo-editing a couple of the pics, opening up the shadows and adjusting contrast - helps especially bring out the detail lost in the shadows of the porch architecture pi
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Thanks, Bob. Those look great.TIPI,TIPI,TIPI!
Jim, If you think the stone work is impressive you should see the rest of the house. Last summer I had the chance to see his project for myself. First class craftsmanship combined with exceptional artistic ability, everywhere you look there is something unique.
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'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Thanks for the comliment , That means a bunch coming from another eccentric woodworker.
thanks Jim for posting the picts and to you Don for the job/references - this is a flashback to what the magazine used to be - nitty-gritty of doing it - I look at this and say, 'ya, this is something I can use/do' - altho I need more details on the specifics - cutting limestone with a router I'd never considered -
carry on - send more picts -
"there's enough for everyone"
"this is a flashback to what the magazine used to be - nitty-gritty of doing it - I look at this and say, 'ya, this is something I can use/do'"
Yeah, I agree (and with what Nick Pitz said) David. This is the kind of article they used to mix in with layouts of outstanding houses. I can't tell you how many times I've dug through my collection to find "that article from a few years back" about making plywood door boring jigs or lifting walls/logs with a gin pole.
But what I like about these photos Don sent is the outstanding craftsmanship of the finished corbels, and those shots of (like Nick said) of site built jigs and common woodworking tools used to create them. Even the hoist lifting that (was that called a "water table"? heavy as helll looking, whatever it's called) is the type thing that gets my wheels turning. Using simple devices to accomplish work I'd have thought was out of reach for me.
Thanks, Don. Got any more?TIPI,TIPI,TIPI!
The water table was heavy . They are 6'8"- 6x8" concrete .I could only lift one end . The hoist is on an old cannon ball door track bolted to the stand offs on the scaffold. and a chain fall hung from a door trolly .
I cast a rebar hoop in the top center for lifting then after they were set I cut it off with the grinder.
I couldn't agree with Jim and David more. This kind of work is EXACTLY what ought to be (and used to be) in Fine Homebuilding... not every article, but at least one every month or two. I may never make my own limestone corbels, but the process, techniques and finish product are fascinating and thought provoking. The article that epitomizes to me what FHB used to be was one a few years back about a guy who built a wood fired Russian (I think) stove into a floor, with the flue chamber as passages under the floor to heat it. I know I'm never going to build one, but the ingenuity and exposure to new ideas is what kept me reading. I also think that FHB needs the basic articles on simple tasks, but I just don't see that many really unique articles anymore.
Those pictures of Don's work literally make me want to go grab my worm drive, slap my old seldom used diamond blade in it, and start making limestone brackets. I may just do it.
Also... more info on the process of "rockfacing" the limestone and carving the corner blocks, please.
The article that epitomizes to me what FHB used to be was one a few years back about a guy who built a wood fired Russian (I think) stove into a floor, with the flue chamber as passages under the floor to heat it.
The ancient Romans used a similar technique in the Roman baths they constructed across their empire. IIRC, light a fire at one end of the building (down low) and it drafts through the floor and then up and out. Heating the water along the way.
jt8
"The test is to recognize the mistake, admit it and correct it. To have tried to do something and failed is vastly better than to have tried to do nothing and succeeded."-- Dr. Dale Turner
Rockfaceing , Shortcourse: draw a line about one inch back from the edge of your stone .
Use a 3" masons chisel , lined up even with the line , angled back, swat forcablely with a good sized hammer.
Move the chisel down the line , repeat till line is gone .
Turn the stone over . draw a line and you know the drill by now. When you are done you should have a good rockfaced stone.
If you tilt the chisel back from the face too much you will not cut to the middle or just past.
David
I'm not comparing my stone work to that of the other stuff on here but I cut this sink hole (limestone) out with a plunge router and I didnt have to do anything to clean up the cut! As a matter of fact, I dont think the bit was any duller then when I started.
Doug
Sweet! You have a photo showing more of that top, Doug? Nice faucet.TIPI,TIPI,TIPI!
Jim
I got this pic, not much better.
I built cabinets across a 24' wall and the limestone went on either end.
As Donpapenburg said about the limestone not all being the same, this stuff was very soft. I've seen limestone that we used to build retainer walls out of that was very hard, or at least comparatively.
I did this fireplace mantle(same house), never mind the color difference, I sealed it with some sealer and it didn't dry evenly. I cut all the profiles with grinder on that thing, cut much easier then wood!
Doug
Sorry about the size, I didnt realize until afterwards!
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Doug, Amazing how a router bit cuts the limestone . But not all limestone is created equal the foundation stones that I used were rather hard . the ones that I cut corbes and such out of worked great.
The insperation came when the supplier told me that they could not rockface anything over 3" and I needed 4" lintels for my basement windows. It took ten min. to rockface the 4" lintel.
And then the 6 inch one for the basement doors. This stone cut a lot easier than the local stone that I used on my foundation.
So when I decided I wanted corbels on my porches , it was DIY time again. I knew that the diamond blade would cut the stone . But I needed some other decorations as well and the only thing I could think of was high priced diamond router bits. But they are designed for wet cut and hard to find . Carbide bits were in the box and cheap . I had no idea if it would work and I had nothing to lose exept a bit . I have since made six corbels and used the same bits for all of them.
You definately have to take small ,cuts many passes. I finnished all of them with a lite sanding with 120 paper . A mill file will sharpen some detail also.
Don, that's some nice looking stone work. Do you have any more pics? Are you a mason?jt8
"The test is to recognize the mistake, admit it and correct it. To have tried to do something and failed is vastly better than to have tried to do nothing and succeeded."-- Dr. Dale Turner
Thanks I have a few more someplace around here.
I am not a mason by trade but I play one at home.
Here are two more Don sent. Great looking place, Don.TIPI,TIPI,TIPI!
Nice place! I like that old Diamond T truck, too.
I just found this thread- Beautiful work, all. I've never worked with limestone, and it's amazing what you guys are doing out there. I get the feeling I'll use some of those techniques someday.
I've got to post a few pictures of some of the stonework i did this summer- hopefully it's worth seeing. The stonework is done to match photos of the original buildings, some of which were built by the CCC in the 30s, some built earlier. Some of this stonework i would have liked to do better (more chipping and cutting, tighter joints), but it wouldn't have matched.
These buildings are up on Mt. Rainier- it froze almost every night this summer.
zak
Great workmanship. It's always tough to match existing work and it looks like you did a great job. What a location to work at. Do you work for the park service? Did you have to haul all the tools and materials up on your back. Many years ago I spent a few weeks in Glacier Mt. saw these guys hauling stuff up the mountain one piece at a time, 5 guys, one trip a day, took them a week just to get set up.
Thanks for your complements. I think it turned out well, and hopefully our work will last as long as the original work- 70 or 80 years in the extreme conditions up there is pretty good. The company I was working for was a contractor for the park service. See the picture for how all the tools and materials came up- including 10 pallets of concrete and mortar, a 1300 lb compressor, and every other tool we thought there was a chance of needing. I carried up a fair number of full packs of food and little things we forgot on my back. Not so much fun. It's a 4 mile hike with 5000 feet of elevation gain.
Beautiful though. Worth all the time away from home, the discomfort, the bad weather. It's not something i'll ever forget.
zak
Wow. That looks great, zak.
Is that inside the Park? Are you working on the lodge up there at...is it "Longmire"?TIPI,TIPI,TIPI!
Thanks for the complement.
Yup, it's in the park. Up at the high camp, Camp Muir, at 10,000 ft on the southeast face. About 4 miles hike from the Paradise lodge.
I don't know if they're still working on the Longmire lodge, but I do know that they're planning a major renovation of the Paradise lodge and visitor center in the next couple years. They're going to make the massive stone chimneys a major structural component so they can leave the original post and beam structure alone. That would be a great project to work on.
You should go up into the park sometime and see the stonework there- it's second to none in Washington as far as i've seen. You don't live to far away, right?
zak
"Paradise Lodge" Yeah, THAT'S the one I'm thinking of. Kathy and I had read they were closing it earlier this year to rennovate it. What a building, huh?
A good friend of mine worked as a carpenter on that building in the late 70s when they did a bunch of work on it. I've been seriously thinking about trying to track down the contractor and hiring on for this round. You don't get many chances to work on buildings like that.
Hey, you have any more photos of that Camp Muir project? You must, man. Come on, now, don't be greedy. Share some more. TIPI,TIPI,TIPI!
I've been thinking the same thing about getting on that Paradise job. The crew i worked with at camp muir isn't really geared towards jobs that large, but i wouldn't mind setting a few stones in the lodge. A rare opportunity indeed.
Here are a few pictures of last years (2004) work on Camp Muir. Our main task in 2004 was replacing the 17 layers of tarpaper and snow-roof with a xypex'ed concrete roof over corrugated steel plank. We built up the crennelations on the sides of the building to use as an edge dam for the concrete, and ran the concrete right up to the low spots of the wall for drainage. It worked great- no leaks for the first time in 80 years.
Also, here's a shot of Camp muir from the helicopter coming in. The landing zone there is tiny- with the big helicopter, the rotor is only a couple feet from an outhouse and a boulder. Heck of a ride though.
zak
Ok, now here are a few more pictures from 2005 work. We relocated the privy (8' x 7' building), marking every rock and putting it back together more or less the same 15 feet away. It was falling off the mountain in the old location, and we had to build the back wall anew as it was.
We also repaired the buttresses on the public shelter. Apparently they had fallen down and been poorly rebuilt at some point in the past, so we shaved off some of the old buttress, then rebuilt according to historical pictures. The stones we used were from 4-10" thick, and rebar pins are drilled into them and the buttress, and then the space between old and new is filled with concrete. I think you can see Mt. Adams and Mt. St. Helens in the distance over the privy roof in one picture.
zak
Zak, Have you worked in other cool places? Would really like to hear more about your projects. I worked on several island projects that were hell to get to and sometimes even worse to get off of. No way to run and get that tool you forgot or pick up another board to replace the one you cut an inch short. The experience made up for the hassel and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
I'm very lucky to have worked in some incredible places. I started working on trail crews in the pacific northwest wilderness when I was 17- I built a lot of rock walls and cut a lot of brush, and eventually built many bridges. For the last four years or so I was working for a specialty suspension bridge company, Sahale, that did mostly trail bridges- long spans over some incredible gorges and creeks. Working on Camp Muir tops all of them though- the work is really rather simple compared to erecting a 240' cable suspension bridge, but there's nothing like being that removed from civilization. It really forces you to visualize everything and plan for the worst, as i'm sure you know.
Most of our work was unique stuff, and the Camp muir project was a prime example- you're never really sure what you'll run into, and the scope of work is subject to change depending on what you find. I love the problem solving of that sort of job, don't think i could sit around and lick envelopes for a living.
But recently, the glory of bridge building has not meshed so well with the rest of my life, so now i'm playing at carpentry- remodeling my home full time. I'm never sure if i'm more in the pro or the DIY camp on this board. Everything i do involves a considerable amount of figuring and reinventing methods, which is how i like it. sorry for the rant.
Big fan of your work, by the way. Don't forget to post more of your work often.
zak
"I'm never sure if i'm more in the pro or the DIY camp on this board."
I never understood people's need to identify as one or the other. I 'm pretty sure everyone who gets paid to build, also takes great pleasure in doing work on there own place, too. So what's the difference?
And to be honest, seems to me many DIYers have more passion for building than a lot of people who build because it's the way they can make the most money.
Anyways, those are some great shots, zak. How about sharing some of the bridges you mentioned?TIPI,TIPI,TIPI!
I'll post a few bridge pictures at some point- I'll look around for some shots and resize them. Give it it's own thread. I don't really have very many pictures of those days, it was befor i had a digital camera, and i was too busy working most of the time.
zak
I'll second Jims responce to the Pro/DIY comment as well as add: I prefer the term craftsman as opposed to Pro/DIY, it covers the skill of the person doing the work irregardless wether they do it for themselves or earn a living at it. Over the years I have learned as much from the weekend homebuilder who has a genuine interestin what he does as I have from the pro who needs to make a buck for every hour he works. Your bridge projects would be great to see.
Zak, That is some cool work you did there . Is that all granite ? or some other stone. If it is like the granite boulders we find in the farm fields around here , How do you chisel it ? I broke my mason chisel trying to trim a chunk of granite for my shop foundation. I like to stick in a couple of granite stone in each wall of limestone just for the effect. What is your mortar mix for the job in the mountain? Do you use a small chisel for trimming ? The monument guy told me that the old guy that does the rock face on granite tombstones just draws a line and chisels it with a large mall and makes it look like childs play.
I'm with Armin and Jim on the DIY/ Pro thing also .
Do post pictures of your bridges though .
wow that finished exterior is awesome
I've been through there a couple times on my way up the mountain and it feels like grand central station
how was it workin w/ all those climbers coming to & fro?
you have given me a reason to get back up there sooner than later.
the interior the same more or less and you built around it?
John-
We changed the interior around to the way it was 50 years ago- for one thing, we reopened the front door, on the south side, that had been stoned up for 40 or so years. We moved the bunks to the opposite side, so that light could come in from the windows. We added three solatube skylights (which make the place much nicer) and a solar powered ventilation system. Finally, we poured a new concrete floor. It's much nicer.
I spent 2 1/2 months in that place before all this was done, and it was pretty bad. It's a cozy little place now.
By and large, the climber's kept their distance from us, we were noisy and dusty. There are some great people that come through there though, we made friends with the climbing rangers and the guide service cooks (a good friend to have).
There's no more work planned for this next year, but the park service has a master plan that changes camp muir around quite a bit.
zak
I always thought that was a bizarre kinda last chance shelter but considering the elements roundly appreciated
look forward to seeing your work up there
Thanks- the stone was mostly andesite, if I remember correctly, but it works about the same as granite. It's very heavy stuff, around 175 lbs/cubic foot. When we started, I would score everything with a diamond grinder blade or the cut off saw blade, and then break it with a chisel, but after a couple of months of stonemasonry I was scoring with the chisel, and not using power tools much at all. It's very satisfying to just use a hammer and chisel, and it always seemed like a shame to use the noisy equipment up there on the mountain.
We used a Type N mortar for the project in the pictures- it's a pretty hard, cement rich mortar that's good for high exposure. It might crack limestone faces, though. On a project lower down on the mountain, we used a special historical mortar mix, with no cement. The park service came up with the recipe, and imported hydrated lime from england, and something called pozzolan clay from god knows where. I wasn't real thrilled with the results- it took forever to set, during which time it would rain, snow, temperatures would drop to 15 degrees, etc. Working at that elevation, it's better to have something simple and reliable.
Here's a picture of that building lower down on Mt. Rainier- we repointed all the masonry and covered the concrete roof with flagstone.
zak
Zak,
Holy up in the sky, Batman. Nice work. Oxygen mask anyone?
The CM
Just about. Gives new, appropriate meaning to the phrase "take a breather," especially after toting around 80 lb sacks of mortar.
Also, we used a pressure cooker for anything we wanted to cook in water- I think i remember that water boils at about 197 F up there, at 10,000 ft. You could be cooking black beans for days.
zak
Wow, the stonework is lovely, indeed. The featureless, recessed portland mortar detracts somewhat, I think. But it's great to see fine stonemasonry being practiced. Thanks for sharing!
Allen
What would you suggest ? I didn't want colored mortar The effect I wanted was of the old houses built at the beginning of the last century.
Don, regarding the mortar, hope I didn't come across as too critical, because the job you're doing is fantastic. What historic examples were you referencing for the mortar joints? Here in the Northeast, I've seen a variety of treatments from the c.1900 period ... ranging from tooled beads, to flat, raised "ribbons." I've only done a few relatively minor masonry projects, but I've been tutored by a respected preservation stone mason here in New York state. He specializes in 100 percent lime mortar masonry.Modern gray portland is never flattering to stonework, in my opinion. I've heard of people coloring white portland, but that's probably expensive and tedious.Another possible approach is to use a higher percentage of lime, and to expose the aggregate by misting with water before it sets. This allows the sand color to show, and gives the mortar a bit more texture.Attached is a closeup of the original c.1840 mortar of my barn foundation. No tooled joints here, but it shows how the sand determines the color of these old mortars (the white chunks are bits of lime that were either unslaked or not mixed completely wth the sand).The second photo shows an area of the foundation I had to rebuild.Well, for what it's worth. Allen
No problem . I was refering to the farm houses around this area that I grew up in . None of the foundation work was fancy unless it was a large house . I tooled the joints because I believe that it holds up to the weather better . I also think that a lot of the old joints were tooled but don't look that way now because of the weather.
See, now that stonework is worthy of being called Fine Homebuilding.
I would think an article on how to custom make your own limestone brackets with commonly available tools would be a winner. But that's just me. Call it professional curiosity.
Edited 1/11/2006 3:05 pm ET by NPitz