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Discussion Forum

storage sheds: legal issues

workalone | Posted in General Discussion on July 25, 2009 02:40am

I’ll be building on a farm in Pennsylvania. Now, suppose that I need another bedroom in the future. It seems to me that the easy thing to do is build one of those kit storage sheds. I’ve seen them 10×14 at least. They rest on skids on the ground.

I wonder how close to a house a storage shed can be; is there a minimum number of feet from the house that the shed must maintain? Also, how large can a shed be before you need a building permit? I realize that the codes vary depending on location, but this is a rural farm area. Has anyone been hassled about such a structure? It just seems like an inexpensive way to add living space.

Thanks

Paul

 

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  1. husbandman | Jul 25, 2009 02:49am | #1

    Don't know about your locale.

    Here (rural Colorado) both city and county have an exemption for any building not to exceed 10' x 12'. Not sure about the county, but the city inspector told me it can be ANY KIND of 10x12 shed. I asked because I was thinking of building a greenhouse. There is some confusion as to whether setbacks apply, but it's safer to assume that they do.

    I've never heard of a requirement for a certain space between buildings, but it wouldn't surprise me if there'd be one in some areas.

    There are a large number of rural land parcels here owned by out of area owners. It's pretty common to see a couple of 10x12 sheds sitting next to each other with a firepit somewhere around. I've seen some that were completely finished out inside to be a bunk house type thing. I think that's what your considering. Some of the pre-fab shed outfits offer a "cabin" with a loft and porch.

    I'd check with zoning before buying materials!

    1. fingersandtoes | Jul 25, 2009 03:01am | #4

      We have a similar exemption for structures under 100 sf. They fall outside the building code's jurisdiction. However regional bylaws still apply to them which can limit where they are placed - in the same way that bylaws can regulate fences and other structures.

      While these small accessory buildings are not governed by the building code, all dwelling units are, so they can not be used as bedrooms, kitchens or other spaces for which standards under the building code exist.

  2. Junkman001 | Jul 25, 2009 02:54am | #2

    Kind of confused here.  Do you mean that the "shed" will be a future bedroom.  Ever think of calling your local building department, and asking THEM?

     

    Mike

    Insert initially amusing but ultimately annoying catch phrase here.
    1. workalone | Jul 25, 2009 03:03am | #5

      You want me to call the local building department and ask them if its ok to do something that I'm going to do anyway?  Hah!!

      Don't ask. Don't tell.

      Paul

       

      1. Piffin | Jul 25, 2009 02:44pm | #7

        Well, it is good to know what the rules and exclusions are so that you know the best way to do it legally.There is a guy here who did similar to you and had an attitude like you expressed, and he found out the hard way that his legal fees, and the hundred dollar a day fine until he complied were far more expensive than simply doing it right would have been 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  3. workalone | Jul 25, 2009 02:59am | #3

    I saw an article about a huge mansion on a lake in Sweden. The owner wanted to build very expensive bungalows for his guests. The local codes forbad bungalows. 

    When the owner could not get an exemption, he built them anyway, in a manner that made them legal. How did he do it? - By putting them on truck wheels, thereby turning a bungalow into a vehicle.

    Paul

     

  4. Piffin | Jul 25, 2009 02:39pm | #6

    This is one where you DO need to consult the building dept locally.

    As for practical, it depends why you need or might mneed a second bedroom. A 'shed' would be pretty poor for long term, say a new wife, but it can be very convenient for occasional guest house for company.

    Max size here that can be built with no permit is 120 sq ft.
    But where you get into trouble is in what it is used for. The ordinance here controls it if "designed, equipt, or used for" dwelling purposes. A septic system is designed based on expected useage and that works to 90 gal a day here for each bedroom. ( each person will use 40-50 gal/day) Lot of assumptions go into that estimate, but in general, it is just as cheap to build a septic system for 2-3 bedrooms as it is for one, so you should be OK there.

    Heat is another thing entirely. Your heat cost and loss calculations are based more than anything on how much surface area the unit has and how many opennings.

    So a small shed has far more sq ft of ext surface relative to enclosed volumn than any larger building, making it somewhat more inefficient, unless you don't have plumbing there and turn the heat off entirely when unused.

    Some places have setback requirements of 6', 8' or 15' for purpose of preventing fire spread. Setback to road is common at 50'

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

  5. Marson | Jul 25, 2009 03:13pm | #8

    In some areas, county zoning rules are more stringent than building codes. I had a client once who tried to put up a little glorified screen tent along a river--no foundation, nothing, and they wouldn't let her. I believe she even floated the idea of putting it on wheels.

    In that neck of the woods, people are famous for putting up a 10 x 12 boat shed by the lake, and converting it to a lakeside sauna.

    1. Snort | Jul 25, 2009 03:46pm | #9

      Don't forget that another bedroom may require you to bump up your septic system, and that's whether it has plumbing or not.Sheds on skids could be exempt from both permits, inspections, and taxes...We can call inspections anonymously... or, you could go in with a fake moustache.http://www.tvwsolar.com

      We'll have a kid

      Or maybe we'll rent one

      He's got to be straight

      We don't want a bent one

      He'll drink his baby brew

      From a big brass cup

      Someday he may be president

      If things loosen up

      1. junkhound | Jul 25, 2009 05:02pm | #10

        Sheds on skids

        Do that mean I can build any size shed as long as it is on skids??? <G>

        Do big 'sill plates' count as 'skids" ???

        View Image

        1. Snort | Jul 25, 2009 06:41pm | #11

          I had a buddy you would have loved. He croaked, and unfortunately for his wife, didn't take it all with him... but' he must have had 20 sheds on "skids" to beat the taxman and othe AHJs, and yes, those sill plates would definitely qualify... rollin, rollin, rollin <G>http://www.tvwsolar.com

          We'll have a kid

          Or maybe we'll rent one

          He's got to be straight

          We don't want a bent one

          He'll drink his baby brew

          From a big brass cup

          Someday he may be president

          If things loosen up

        2. fingersandtoes | Jul 26, 2009 04:14am | #15

          Note to self: Never put bumper sticker on van after Friday beers.

          1. junkhound | Jul 26, 2009 04:21am | #16

            Dat van has been in the shed for about 6 years, was DIL's van. 

            She put it crooked for 'artistic' effect, about the time of Iraq excursion.

          2. fingersandtoes | Jul 26, 2009 05:15am | #17

            Well if that's her story and she's sticking with it...

  6. suomiconstruction | Jul 25, 2009 06:51pm | #12

    Around here...you're limted to 200 square feet with out permit. That gets you at most a 12 by 16 shed.  But if you want electrical or plumbing permits and inspections required.

    The are also property line setback requirements and also limitations as to a percentage of lot size that can be covered by building.

    Also check utilities, PoCos kind of grow on your building on top of or under your lines.

    Course I'm in the big city.....

    If you're lucky (or unlucky) you may have no codes.

    Like the other guys said give the building department a call if you have one.

    Rafael

    Suomi Construction

     

    1. RalphWicklund | Jul 25, 2009 07:16pm | #13

      Your question is another good reason to put in a basement. Lots of room then to add bedrooms, without declaring - if you wish - that you have done so.

  7. YesMaam27577 | Jul 25, 2009 08:58pm | #14

    It seems to me that one of those kit storage sheds is probably one of the worst options you have for adding living space.

    In general, the framing is insufficient to allow proper interior wall surfaces. Without interior walls, you'll have problems doing any wiring that is long-term safe.

    Weatherproofing and insulation will be problematic, and you might have a problem anchoring the structure so it will stay put in a wind storm.

    But have at it if you want. And if you want, you could write it up and submit it to This Old House.

    Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.

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