FHB Logo Facebook LinkedIn Email Pinterest Twitter X Instagram Tiktok YouTube Plus Icon Close Icon Navigation Search Icon Navigation Search Icon Arrow Down Icon Video Guide Icon Article Guide Icon Modal Close Icon Guide Search Icon Skip to content
Subscribe
Log In
  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Restoration
  • Videos
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House
  • Podcast
Log In

Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

Store front full view metal doors

ahneedhelp | Posted in General Discussion on May 12, 2002 07:48am

I am interested in using the type of full glass doors seen in many store fronts. They are usually brushed aluminum framed and the store display windows are usually clad in the same stuff.
(Thermal efficiency is not a major factor at this point.)
Having seen older store buildings retrofitted with more modern material, I am wondering if the doors are measured and made to fit the old openings.
I like the clean appearance and also that it will require far less maintenance.
This will be used for the kitchen entrance which is protected by a covered porch.
I am planning on checking with the local glass shop, which seems to do a lot of store fronts in our area.
(I also see these types of doors/windows featured in articles showing off New York City lofts and apartments.)

In general are they usually custom made for each (commercial) job ?
I’m wondering if asking about an entry door only will generate little interest from the vendor/manufacturer.

Thanks,

Alan

Reply
  • X
  • facebook
  • linkedin
  • pinterest
  • email
  • add to favorites Log in or Sign up to save your favorite articles

Replies

  1. dw40 | May 12, 2002 07:59pm | #1

    Don't know where you are in the country, but here in NYC there are tons of outfits that do just that. Most of them are Chinese contractors, they roll up in their truck and the whole thing's finished in 4 hours. Pretty amazing. It is, I believe, the kind of thing that is extremely easy if you do it all the time and a minefield if you don't.

    I do not think they come "off the shelf".

    DW



    Edited 5/12/2002 1:02:22 PM ET by D_Wood_NY

    1. Jamie_Buxton | May 12, 2002 08:02pm | #2

      How do the guys in the truck cut the glass?   Wouldn't it have to be tempered glass?

      1. timkline | May 12, 2002 08:41pm | #3

        The way the Manhattan crews work (and a few others I'm sure) is that the doors are a standard size (as in fixed) and the frame is made to fit the opening. This type of setup works only in a limited number of sizes because there is only so much you can make up with fixed size extruded aluminum frame material. Normally what you do is call a commercial glass contractor and have them come out and measure the opening and quote you a price. They will be providing the frame, hinges, door, insulated tempered glass, sidelites if necessary, threshold, pull handles, push handles or panic device, closer and lock. If you aren't familiar with pricing at all, ask for a range on the phone first as these things aren't cheap. The link is to one of the biggest and best names in the business.

        http://www.kawneer.com/

        carpenter in transition

        1. FastEddie1 | May 12, 2002 09:02pm | #4

          They could be using laminated safety glass.  But since almost all storefront doors are 36" wide, it's pretty much a cookie cutter operation.

          1. timkline | May 12, 2002 09:23pm | #6

            I seriously doubt that anyone is using laminated safety glass for storefront doors. It just doesn't hold up. If you push on it, it flexes and cracks. The doors come standard 3'0" x 6'8" or 7'0" glazed with tempered i.g. or u.i.g. and any sidelites usually require lead time due to tempering.

            carpenter in transition

      2. dw40 | May 12, 2002 09:37pm | #7

        Sorry, I explained that poorly. It is not an "it's all on the truck" operation like say, replacement glass guys, where a small job might go from phone call to completion in 1/2 an hour if the truck happens to be on a call next door. These guys come out and measure first for the glass.

        The other posts in here have shed much more light on this than I have and seem to have covered it pretty completely.

        Good luck,

        DW

        1. Joe1225d | May 12, 2002 11:07pm | #8

          I work on and sub out work on these doors almost daily. Typically it is laminated glass. I've never noticed one with tempered glass. They must be out there but the only time i notice what kind of glass is in there its because its broken. Probably did 6 glass replacements last year. Usually i sub out glass replacement but not always.

          I also hire others to work on the pivots, closers, and openers.

          I work on the locks of these doors constantly. The commercial door locks rarely have a backset greater than 1-1/4". The hollow metal frames may or may not meet energy codes for residential construction.

          3/0 X 7/0 is your most common size. You'll save money on the door if you stick with that size.

          joe d

          1. ahneedhelp | May 12, 2002 11:20pm | #9

            Holy cow, folks - thanks for the flood of replies.

            I guess it's time to call the local shop and see what they have to say.

            This will be for a 1950s era brick ranch, so the brick veneer will be a factor. All the door frame, etc obviously is wood and I am not sure how they will deal with this.

            I'm sure this will be an off-the-wall request and they may not have a ready answer.

            I do appreciate the warning about foot injuries.

            I don't think that's a concern with our existing doors.

            Maybe the commercial doors end up higher off the floor ?

            And thanks for the links to the companies.

            I am aware of full-view wooden doors, one of which is at a friend's house as a back entrance off a deck that gets a lot of sun.

            You can already guess the amount of maintenance that's involved.

            Thanks again and if you have any more comments, I'm all ears.

            Alan

          2. DaveRicheson | May 13, 2002 01:43am | #10

            Ok, I am glass ignorant, but I have lost count of the closers and pivots I hvae worked on. The doors may actually be lower to the floor than a standard residential wood or steel door. A lot depends on the type of treshold. Most of the commercial doors do not have any sweep beneath the door, just a square edge stile and rail. We have even filed or used a grinder to ease the bottoms to reduce the hazard. The problem is that it is metal... a lot harder a less forgiving than a piece of wood or weather strip.

            I assume your door will swing inside the house. Fire code requires exit/entrance doors to swing out and have closer to keep them shut. Hold open devices are not allowed unless connected to the fire alarm/detection/supression system. That is local code, but it pretty much follows NFPA.

          3. DaveRicheson | May 13, 2002 02:18am | #11

            Gave you the wrong name. It is Swanhee (like the river), not Kawanee (a boiler manufacture)

            Dave

          4. JLazaro317 | May 13, 2002 02:36am | #12

            Kawneer is a big manufacturer of those doors.John

            J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.

            Indianapolis, In.

            http://www.lazarobuilders.com

          5. DaveRicheson | May 13, 2002 05:37am | #15

            Thanks John, I've got CRS. My files are at work, or I would have looked it up. I don't think he would need a closer on a residential installation, unless the door swings out. That is one ugly piece of hardware I woud not want in my home. Looks like a big old growth on the door or the cassing, depending on installation.

          6. timkline | May 13, 2002 06:31am | #16

            Wow, I've never seen a door that didn't have tempered glass. Considering how easily I've seen laminated glass break, I figured the only reason why anyone would use it in this application would be because if instant availability. Most of the units I see are insulated glass, so this could be a factor.  Anyway, why would you want to spend so much money on a commercial door for a house. Is it for a particular look ?  Mill finish aluminum on a house ?  Are you into the ultra narrow stile and rail look ?  A steel full lite door would sure save you a lot of dough and hassle.

            carpenter in transition

          7. Joe1225d | May 13, 2002 08:46am | #17

            Yes expect to pay commercial rates for the work. Somewhere between $10 to $20 more per hour I'd guess.

            joe d

          8. ahneedhelp | May 13, 2002 03:14am | #13

            Kawneer seems to be it.

            Turns out to be an Alcoa company.

            Thanks for the info and I'm browing their web site.

            Alan

            Edited 5/12/2002 8:29:02 PM ET by Ahneedhelp

          9. FastEddie1 | May 13, 2002 04:11am | #14

            Joe D mentioned something very important and easily overlooked.  The standard size is 7'-0", not 6'-8" like residential doors.  If you spec a 6'-8" storefront door, expect to wait a little longer and pay a premium.

  2. DaveRicheson | May 12, 2002 09:03pm | #5

    The type of door you want usually can be fitted in either a block wall or store front metal wall. There are also jambs that are made for metal stud installation, and I think one could be used in wood construction. They are available in both single and insulated tempered safety glass.

    Yes, they are very heavey duty, and would be much lower in maintenance in residential use (lower traffic volume). They are always fitted with some type of door closer that is equaly heavey duty. The closer range in price from $75.00 to over $300.00, so depending on application they are a large factor in maintenance expense. The doors generally have a top and bottom pivot type hinge, not a surface mount or mortise type. Installation and alignment of the whole package is not a DIY project. These jokers can be heavier than a solid core door.

    Locally we have ours made and installed with all hardware, including our Best core locks for around $700.00 to $1200.00 depending on the variables mentioned.

    One not of caution: these things are pretty hard on toes! I have seen more than one customer wearing sandles pull them open and catch thier toes with the bottom edge of the door. Those metal edges can rake off a lot of hide.

    Take a look at Kawanee web site for closer specification, and I believe Yale also has closer information. Kawanee is the high end stuff and Yale runs the whole spectrum of cost.

    Dave

  3. MarkH128 | May 13, 2002 02:32pm | #18

    A commercial door will cost a lot more than you expect. I believe that tempered insulated glass is the norm now. I never saw safety glass installed unless it was a replacement unit. Look for a commercial installer to install them. Glass shops mainly do repair and glass replacement. I worked commercial glass for a while, and we never installed new work.

    1. FastEddie1 | May 13, 2002 04:38pm | #19

      One of the reasons for a closer on store front doors, is to keep them closed.  Now, hang on a minute!  Residential doors have door hardware that automatically latches in the closed positon, so the door won't blow open with the wind (or the dog).  Most store front door hardware stays retracted except when the door is locked at night, so the only thing that keeps it from swinging free is the closer.  Unless you install latching hardware, the door won't stay closed.  And don't forget that the door stiles are indeed very narrow, so the hardware options are limited.

      1. Stray | May 14, 2002 09:41pm | #20

        The hardware selection will indeed be limited. You can't expect to put a standard houshold latch mechanism in without modification, and it would look out of place on the commercial door anyway.

        These doors are closer to the ground than typical residential, mainly due to ADA legislation requireing no more that 1/2" threshold highet due to potential wheelchair use in a retail/public environment.

        Edited 5/14/2002 2:46:48 PM ET by Stray

        Edited 5/14/2002 3:50:13 PM ET by Stray

Log in or create an account to post a comment.

Sign up Log in

Become a member and get full access to FineHomebuilding.com

Video Shorts

Categories

  • Business
  • Code Questions
  • Construction Techniques
  • Energy, Heating & Insulation
  • General Discussion
  • Help/Work Wanted
  • Photo Gallery
  • Reader Classified
  • Tools for Home Building

Discussion Forum

Recent Posts and Replies

  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
View More Create Post

Up Next

Video Shorts

Featured Story

Picture-Perfect Pergola

Built from locally sawn hemlock, this functional outdoor feature uses structural screws and metal connectors for fast, sturdy construction.

Featured Video

How to Install Exterior Window Trim

Learn how to measure, cut, and build window casing made of cellular PVC, solid wood, poly-ash boards, or any common molding material. Plus, get tips for a clean and solid installation.

Related Stories

  • Podcast Episode 692: Introduction to Trade Work, Embodied Carbon, and Envelope Improvements
  • FHB Podcast Segment: Embodied Greenhouse Gas Emissions and the Building Codes
  • Old Boots Learn New Tricks
  • Install Denim Insulation Like a Pro

Highlights

Fine Homebuilding All Access
Fine Homebuilding Podcast
Tool Tech
Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20

"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Fine Homebuilding Magazine

  • Issue 332 - July 2025
    • Custom Built-ins With Job-Site Tools
    • Fight House Fires Through Design
    • Making the Move to Multifamily
  • Issue 331 - June 2025
    • A More Resilient Roof
    • Tool Test: You Need a Drywall Sander
    • Ducted vs. Ductless Heat Pumps
  • Issue 330 - April/May 2025
    • Deck Details for Durability
    • FAQs on HPWHs
    • 10 Tips for a Long-Lasting Paint Job
  • Issue 329 - Feb/Mar 2025
    • Smart Foundation for a Small Addition
    • A Kominka Comes West
    • Making Small Kitchens Work
  • Issue 328 - Dec/Jan 2025
    • How a Pro Replaces Columns
    • Passive House 3.0
    • Tool Test: Compact Line Lasers

Fine Home Building

Newsletter Sign-up

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox.

  • Green Building Advisor

    Building science and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers, in your inbox.

  • Old House Journal

    Repair, renovation, and restoration tips, plus special offers, in your inbox.

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters

Follow

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X

Membership & Magazine

  • Online Archive
  • Start Free Trial
  • Magazine Subscription
  • Magazine Renewal
  • Gift a Subscription
  • Customer Support
  • Privacy Preferences
  • About
  • Contact
  • Advertise
  • Careers
  • Terms of Use
  • Site Map
  • Do not sell or share my information
  • Privacy Policy
  • Accessibility
  • California Privacy Rights

© 2025 Active Interest Media. All rights reserved.

Fine Homebuilding receives a commission for items purchased through links on this site, including Amazon Associates and other affiliate advertising programs.

  • Home Group
  • Antique Trader
  • Arts & Crafts Homes
  • Bank Note Reporter
  • Cabin Life
  • Cuisine at Home
  • Fine Gardening
  • Fine Woodworking
  • Green Building Advisor
  • Garden Gate
  • Horticulture
  • Keep Craft Alive
  • Log Home Living
  • Military Trader/Vehicles
  • Numismatic News
  • Numismaster
  • Old Cars Weekly
  • Old House Journal
  • Period Homes
  • Popular Woodworking
  • Script
  • ShopNotes
  • Sports Collectors Digest
  • Threads
  • Timber Home Living
  • Traditional Building
  • Woodsmith
  • World Coin News
  • Writer's Digest
Active Interest Media logo
X
X
This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page.

Main Menu

  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Video
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Popular Topics

  • Kitchens
  • Business
  • Bedrooms
  • Roofs
  • Architecture and Design
  • Green Building
  • Decks
  • Framing
  • Safety
  • Remodeling
  • Bathrooms
  • Windows
  • Tilework
  • Ceilings
  • HVAC

Magazine

  • Current Issue
  • Past Issues
  • Magazine Index
  • Subscribe
  • Online Archive
  • Author Guidelines

All Access

  • Member Home
  • Start Free Trial
  • Gift Membership

Online Learning

  • Courses
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Podcast

More

  • FHB Ambassadors
  • FHB House
  • Customer Support

Account

  • Log In
  • Join

Newsletter

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Follow

  • X
  • YouTube
  • instagram
  • facebook
  • pinterest
  • Tiktok

Join All Access

Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features.

Start Your Free Trial

Subscribe

FHB Magazine

Start your subscription today and save up to 70%

Subscribe

Enjoy unlimited access to Fine Homebuilding. Join Now

Already a member? Log in

We hope you’ve enjoyed your free articles. To keep reading, become a member today.

Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine.

Start your FREE trial

Already a member? Log in

Privacy Policy Update

We use cookies, pixels, script and other tracking technologies to analyze and improve our service, to improve and personalize content, and for advertising to you. We also share information about your use of our site with third-party social media, advertising and analytics partners. You can view our Privacy Policy here and our Terms of Use here.

Cookies

Analytics

These cookies help us track site metrics to improve our sites and provide a better user experience.

Advertising/Social Media

These cookies are used to serve advertisements aligned with your interests.

Essential

These cookies are required to provide basic functions like page navigation and access to secure areas of the website.

Delete My Data

Delete all cookies and associated data