Installed a Pella 6000 Series (full glass) storm door for a client. It latches fine if I open the inner door, but it doesn’t want to latch on it’s own if the inner door is closed-you have to push it closed.
It doesn’t bind anywhere. I’ve tried backing out the closer rate screws, raising the sweep-even removing it, playing with the closer anchors (no, the closers are not bottomed out) The storm door handle is not hitting the inner door handle. Any ideas??? Thanks, Jon
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Replies
It's air pressure, I bet, believe it or not. Any chance of a vent? Course, that would let a draft thru . . .
Forrest
That's the quandry with storm doors.
If they are really cheaply made, they let enough air pass so that they can close. They look like cr*p, but they're cheap and they close.
On the other hand, if they're high quality, then they are fairly airtight -- which means that they won't close due to the increased air pressure that build during the closing/sealing.
Also, if you mess with the closer pump adjustment screw, there is yet another quandry. If it closes hard/fast enough to have some effect, it will clip the homeowner's ankles. If it closes soft/slow enough to not clip ankles..... well, you get the idea.
I've learned that when someone asks me to install a storm door, I explain this ahead of time. Because after the first fifty or so that I did, I quit trying to get them to close.
I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone,
And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone;
I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone,
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)
I heard a radio program on winterization in Wisconsin (they really get into it) and they said that storm windows or doors really don't have to be that tight.
The way they explained it was that air movement washes the heat away from the outside of windows or doors.
So a storm window or door just has to keep the air movement away from the outside of the door.
It doesn't have to seal tight. That is the job for the door or window.
Will Rogers
I've tried to explain that to people here and gotten called all sorts of names.
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
You must make sure the storm door is closed before closing the main door.
You just have to up the pressure or ease off on the damping until it closes reliably -- the problem is the damping due to the air trapped between the two doors. Be sure that the fixed bracket for the closer is as close to the main door (and as far away from the storm) as you can get it.
Some of them do have two positions for the closer cylinder. One for summer, one for winter.
Mike
I've seen some closers that release at the very end of thier controled closing.
Real slow up to about 5" and then it releases it so it slams a bit and latches. "There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
close the storm door with the inner door open...
WTB it will work fine...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I have a storm door that is worn out, sometimes it doesn't latch. If I quickly reopen the inside door, it'll suck the storm door shut.I have the new door, just need to put it up...
when I get a roundtuit.
put up an entry way...
why settle for just a plain old storm door...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
I've been through this before, too.
Here's what I posted in 119089.7
119089.7 in reply to 119089.1
"Most closers have Summer and Winter settings, usually two different pin positions for the closer bar on the door bracket.
A screen door set for Winter will slam annoyingly, while a storm door set for Winter will still not latch if it has decent weatherstripping.
Period.
There used to be some good closers that utilized a jamb-mounted box containing a coil spring to apply the closing force, the spring force acting to swing the arm like a baseball bat instead of just to shorten the arm like regular closers.
The Dexter Dial-A-Matic (or Dial-Matic, I forget) was very good, but is no longer made.
The Stanley CD1768 works like this, but although Stanley marketing has put "Screen & Storm Door Closer" on the package, line 2 of the instructions says:
(NOT INTENDED FOR STORM OR SCREEN DOORS).
Nice.
The instructions are right, too -- it turns out you can either have Winter mode, or hold-open mode, but not both -- instead of a bent tab sliding on the bar to hold the door open, the hold-open mechanism is internal. I'd have to use graphics to explain the geometry of why it doesn't work, and while I've drawn it all out to fax to Stanley, I don't have it electronically.
But trust me, it doesn't work. The closer was designed only as an attached-garage-to-house, code-required, fire-door closer. Since it installs much like a screen/storm closer, it's residential-builder-friendly in that app. It requires more jamb width than is available between the entry and storm doors in a standard wall.
Stanley sells more by marketing it as a "Screen & Storm Door Closer", though, so that's what they do.
You might want to offer it to your customers -- it works better than any other I could find -- but make sure you tell them they'll have to use a cast-iron cat, or a rope and a hook, or something as a hold-open when they're moving furniture, bringing in big loads of groceries, etc.
**********************************
Two other possible solutions:
1) Use a brush-type sweep which should let some air through when slamming shut, and,
2) Make a flap valve, something like a respirator exhalation valve, to drill through the door, which should likewise let some air through when slamming shut.
Either should be fairly easy to do, but I haven't tried them yet -- the finicky customers I bought the Stanleys for got mad and fired me for buying a product that didn't work.
Gee, Thanks, Stanley."
I also asked here on BT if anyone made a decent heavy-duty closer (87786.1), and I struck out.
Print up some of these discussions for your doubting clients, and Good Luck!
AitchKay
AitchKay
H.K., you're hot, dude!
The idea of a one-way breather valve is brilliant. All he's gotta do is install a flapper-type letter slot and tailor a piece of truck-cap tape to act as weatherstripping when it's closed.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
A letter slot would be perfect! It would blend right in visually.Nothin' like teamin' up on BT, eh?AitchKay
It was your idea made me think of it.
Personally, I hate storm/screen door closers. Nothing worse than having to fight with a door that keeps trying to close on you when you're trying to get in or out with your arms fulla groceries or tools or your mug o' coffee balanced on top of yer lunch cooler....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
storm door blues
Hi, thank you for posting information about the stanley storm door closer. I am making a storm door that is 48" x 84" x 1 3/4" wide to match my existing circa1905 front door. The door is going to cost me a bundle to make even with my free wood working skills. I was going to use the Stanley CD1768 because I haven't been able to find anything else better. Any chance you've been able to find a better closer since your last posting in 2009?
Searching for a better closer,
Janarch
I live in a high wind area and in my opinion everyone should get into the habit of making sure they push their door shut with their hand.
I've had the same problem you have because of the air and sometimes the closers seem to be inconsistent--the door closes differently depending on how fast or hard it's opened.
All of my customers so far seem to understand I'll do the best I can, but they have to push the door shut.
Just an observation for furthor discussion, I've had no experience with this. I have seen doors with two closers, one top & one bottom. At the time I thought it was to prevent twisting, but could it be to add that extra 'closing pull'?
Paul
Two closers is helpful if the door gets caught by the wind -- far less likely to trash the door since the force will be applied more evenly.
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
I agree, equal force top and bottom... less likely to warp/twist if caught by the wind. However, it also makes to door twice as hard to open and doesn't gaurantee that it will self-close if the inner door has a good seal. I only use one even when the door comes with two.
It only makes the door twice as hard to open if the closers are set to full force instead of half force.
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
It's fixed! Involved 2 things: First, I replaced the Pella closer rod brackets that mount on the jamb. These were T shaped which prevented the rod from being located close to the inner door where it would provide more pull. I installed the usual L shaped brackets which located the closer rod close to the door. The second problem was that the door was touching the frame at the top but was out about 1/4 inch at the bottom so I applied some good old-fashioned adjustment to it by pulling on the door at the top while I held it in at the bottom.
Thanks for all the help.
Jon