We are having water leaking around our basement windows, and all of our doors. Our house is 1 1/2 years old. The builder says it is because we are on a windy hill. He can’t figure out why we get puddles under the basement windows, and he says we need storm doors for the exterior doors.
My question today is: Are storm doors worth spending the $ on, or are the exterior doors not correct and need to be replaced/properly installed?
My husband used to work for a weatherization company and thinks that storm doors are a scam. The builder won’t replace the damaged wood floor because he thinks we should put storm doors on.
I’m stuck in the middle, needing to make a decision. I don’t want the water damage to continue. Any advice?
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Replies
Find out who made the doors and what their DP (design pressure)rating is. Any door or window will leak above it's rating. If it is leaking below its rating you have either a defective door or defective installation. If you have conditions above its rating someone picked the wrong door and the only thing short of replacing it would be storm doors.
There are some old threads on design pressure that are very informative, you might want to search for them.
I just called the supplier for the DP rating. He hadn't been asked that for years, but will get back to me with an answer. Thanks!
could be a bit of both, but no way should the basement windows leak unless there is practically a flood. Are there window wells protecting them with a gravel/stone base leading to drainage? Is there large volumns of water cascading off the roof right onto them? If so, who designed this and decided to leave them unprotected, the builder, you, or a designer?
For the doors, there is a very good reason for having storm doors. The very best of modern doors can be engineered to withstand rain driven by up to 80MPH winds by using three point locking hardware. If I had a customer insisting on no storm doors in a high wind location, I would likewise insist that they use that sort of a door. run of the mill doors can leak at 30-40 MPH winds.
I built one house facing a cold NW wind coming in off the beach and designed it to have a storm door. Then later the owners insisted that they did not want to spoil the appearance of the door they had chosen by covering it up.
I informed them that it would leak and it did. Finally after three years, we installed a storm door and no more troubles at all.
Haad another customer up on top of a hill with an old old house. The upper balcony door to deck had for a hundred years been covered by a storm panel screwed tight over it all winter and a screen door in summer.
The new owners threw away the storm panel and wanted to know why they had water damage in the spring.
I installed a storm door and there has been no more problems for two winters running now.
Shall I go on?
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OK, I said it wrong about the windows. The water comes from around them, not thru the windows themselves. They are on a south facing walk-out basement. They have leaked since we moved in. I told the builder this- he rechecked the Tyvec and we added gutters. That took care of a corner leak, but the windows still leaked. Here we are at 1 1/2 years after moving in, and the leaking continues. Now the doors are an issue, also, as there is water damage to the wood flooring.
The builder can not figure out where the water is coming in, with the windows. He sprayed on a sealer coat to the stone siding. We haven't had a good rain since, so don't know if that's the cure. Come spring rain, I really doubt it. This issue may not come to a head until then.
As for the doors, they're Thermatrue, which I think I remember reading that you don't like. We get wind gusts on our hill, probably around 50 mph or so. Your answer is storm doors, so I will try them. If we still get leaking around them, we'll face that when it happens.
I have learned so much in this building process- wish I had know even a fraction of it before we had begun. Thanks for your input. I always enjoy seeing your replys.
The water comes from around them, not thru the windows themselves Any chance you have pictures taken during construction, like when the windows were installed and before the brick was on?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Sorry, no pictures. I would love to have a certified home inspector come to the house. I'll have to save up.
The head architect said this was a well built house. I thought I'd be happy with his appraisal, but I'm not. The kitchen floor is off by 3/4". The cabinet guys couldn't believe the crooked walls. I can see where the walls, floors and ceilings aren't straight/square. I've been to enough home shows to notice inexpensive, well built homes and expensive poorly made ones.
Anyway, storm doors it is. As for the windows, I'll wait till after the spring rains for the builder to correct it, then on to someone else, if we can afford it.
If they are not properly caulkd they could be leaking from under the threshold. I've also seen leaks where the jamb adn threshold meet, and around exterior trim.
The head architect said this was a well built house
In this case you can't trust the architect , or the builder. Both have ties to the building and may not give a correct analysis. Asking for the door & window rep to take a look is a good step."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Yeah, just ask any car salesmen if what he's selling is a "well-built" car.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
I agree with Catfish. The water may well be coming from under the threshold and a storm door will not help this. Pull off the brick mold if you can (this may be a problem if it is clad in aluminum). Check to see if the flashing is covered with tape. Also try to shoot some water under the threshold.
You may have to have the door removed and reinstalled. This could tell you a lot about your leak problem. Maybe.
The basement windows need to have drainage to low ground or to the drain tiles.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
You guys may be right on that too. I was responding quickly at lunchtime without taking time to think - gotta find out what the cause is first. I think I may also have been over-reacting to the HO assumption that storm doors are a scam.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That is a darn good point. IF
part of the archies job scope in contract called for him to make site inspections to be sure that things were properly installed,
and IF
he failed to see that tyvek and windows flashings were not done right or to document that he had told the builder to make correction, then he has a hand in causing the problem
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"he kitchen floor is off by 3/4". The cabinet guys couldn't believe the crooked walls...."Ya know - every post ypui make in this thread is bringing out some more information about the whole setting and the contractor, in whom I am fast losing any confidence. I wish you could post some photos...Anyways - is the water coming from around the door frame and trim, from under the threshold, or from around the door slab itself?Also, if you get down to lie on the floor just inside the door, can you see light out under the door between the slab and the threshold? It could be the contractor never adjusted the thresh height and water is streaming in there is all.But no, I don't have a whole lot of faith in Thermatru. can you hold a straightedge on the inner face of the door and tell if it is warped inat top and at bottm? This is common with TT and they owe you a door.Also, measure the jamb openning at top and at bottom. For a 3'0" door, it is common for a TT jamb to be 3/16" wider at the bottom, making it impossible to install square and tight. Again, TT owes you a new door for that.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I would call the window manufacturer and have their field rep come out to inspect the install. The builder sounds like either he doesn't know what he's doing, or knows he made a mistake and doesn't want to fix it. The manufacturer wants to make sure their product isn't the problem, so they'll check out the installation method, which I bet is lacking.
If you have an entry door being hit by driving rain, I would add a storm door. I need one myself.
"either he doesn't know what he's doing, or knows he made a mistake and doesn't want to fix it."That is getting to be my instinct on this one.But I don't know how much the reps will be able to see about the installation if this has stone veneer siding all on.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I didn't read about the stone. OP said the builder checked the tyvek, so it sounded accessible.
OP said the builder checked the tyvek, so it sounded accessible
Yeah, and Gunner's builder said he checked the tyvek too. Lot of good that did."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Might be worth hiring a certified home inspector for an hour to eval;uate the situation.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Sounds like the doors installed didn't meet the demands of existing conditions.
Who chose the doors?
House is a year and a half old, I'm assuming you are the original owner? Is it a custom home? Spec house?
Custom home and you chose the doors, you may be screwed.
Spec house that wasnt designed properly, may get you the doors replaced.
Windows certainly shouldn't be leaking. Again...who chose them?
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
I agree- the doors don't meet the need. I'm in a custom house. The architect gave me a book of Thermatrue doors to select from. Don't know if anyone thought about the wind on the hill being a factor.
On the windows, there were 5 bids on this house, and all used Marvin windows. I just talked with the supplier, and he thinks they were 40# rated. The water issue is from around the windows, not the windows themselves. I said that wrong. Anyway, that'll come to a head in the spring, when my patience is at an end. Two years to correct it seems fair to me.
Some door manufacturers will void their door warrenty if you install a storm door. Therefore, you should also check with the manufacturer of your exterior door if this is the case.
Thanks- will do! I'm from Milwaukee, too. Divine Savior High School - class of '71.
I grew up in Port, class of '97. I know, I'm a young'en.
There is a good chance the doors are leaking around the frame and not in the door to jamb connection.
Somehow you getting too much water against the door or around the frame.
What kind of siding is around the doors?
I would hire a second contractor to give you a opinion.
Unless the home inspector has a construction background he may not be able to diagnose the problem.
I have a Taylor door on our back door. Less than a one foot overhang above. No storm door. No leaks.
Rich
Storm doors are not a scam -- a good quality door can greatly reduce air and water infiltration problems in some cases. But that says little about whether the existing door is functioning properly or not. And obviously a storm door won't do sith for a leaky window.
That water at basement widow is sounding to me like a poor housewrap job and flashing detailing. The water could be coming in somewhere above and migrating to the window before it finds a way in.I know a house here on the island where a contractor who was once featured in the top fifty of the remodler's magazine keeps shining the folks on. Year after year, whenever the wind blows a storm from east, there is a bank of windows that leaks. He trys a little caulk and a little paint, and a little BS and the wall still leaks. I know the crew who did it and I can guarantee that the flashing details are crummy. The only fix there will be to tear the wall and trim open to the sheathing and start back out again.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
An old article, but on probably on point here. At least for the basement walls.Maybe the door also or lack of panning and sealing arought the threashold.http://www.umass.edu/bmatwt/publications/articles/watertight_walls.html.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Yeah, could be any of a dozen things. Mostly, though, it's the drip-drip of the HO getting screwed -- the builder just stalls until the HO gets tired of dealing with it and either lives with the problem or hires someone else to fix it.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader